I can't do it!

[sweet_tikka]

I also think when picking a breeder you should try to find as many people as possible that have purchased from him/her to see if the puppies are healthy or if they are running up vet bills. Because every puppy in every litter will be different, and you need to see if healthiness is consistent!

I was told I should buy a AKC/CKC [canaidian not continental lol] puppy because they are way healthy/better bred than non registered. This is true MOST of the time because AKC/CKC breeders know all the tests/good foods/proper care needed for yorkies. BUT I have 3 friends with AKC yorkies [and have seen many on this site] who all have major issues costing more than a few thousand in vet bills, all from diff. litters. Yet I see people on here with non registered pups/rescues that haven't had any problems. [Mind you, there's TONS of them w/problems as well]

If you are just looking for a pet, then I would say yes use ytca but also do your own research, find previous buyers, ask if the breeder gets the right testing done for health issues or if they would offer to get them done for you, check out the food, living conditions etc. Because there are SOME breeders who might not have registerable litters but they can still be healthy and happy pups.

Not EVERY breeder with non registerable pups is a byb/greeder/etc. There are a few out there who care just as much about the pups as a registered owner does, and usually charge less. But it's about doing your research and knowing what to ask/look for.

Tikka's worst problem has been a UTI after she came out of heat, and she's getting better now! She's not registered, and I have no clue where she came from... but her vet says she's healthy as a horse... wish I knew where she came from so I could see what her breeder is like!

And what YorkieDaddy pointed out about this old Lady... she's been doing this for 30 or so odd years. Maybe she doesn't realize all the new foods/products/websites for food break downs, maybe the daughter is the one running it now and she's out to make all her mom's money... Not making excuses for a bad breeder. But I think sometimes we jump the gun. Although I'll have to agree... I'd never feed my dogs Ol'Roy or buy from a breeder with 20 or so pups on site :P

But I'm glad Twix found a responsible owner who'll love him!!

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

That is true.....but, the even bigger picture is that many dogs (including perfectly wonderful yorkies) are going to die today in shelters across the country....I believe in your state many will die in gas chambers, a horrific death.

So...while people continue to think they are saving the pups when they buy from bad breeders, they are actually, unknowingly (in some cases), contributing to these deaths. All they are doing is keeping these people who don't give a rat's butt about the welfare of the pups they breed, in business. And...the numbers of them that end up dumped or poorly cared for is just beyond belief.

I know you won't change your mind, but I continue to plug away trying to get the message out there with the hopes that some people actually do listen.

Thank you!
It's not saving the pups, it's enabling the greeder.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by babiegurl

OK. So let's say he wasnt too educated on buying in his puppy. He gets that. We get that. What he is now trying to do is make the best of this unfortunate situation. He loves the dog and wants the dog (although his situation is kinda unique), but I guess its not enough to those on here who have more experience. I mean, what else can he do? Why must some continue to berate him for misinformed choices? What a way to lower his morale.

This situation is not unique, we see it happen again and again on YT. The fact that the OP knows better but chooses to ignore what he knows. He says he got the puppy "for a steal" and had put down half already. I going to just go and guess he put down $250. I would still walk away. That's a drop in the bucket if the pup gets sick. Just an office visit is already $40, bloodwork $100, meds easily $50, that's about $200 already right there, for one visit to the vet. LS surgery? who out there wants to share how much that costs, plus the last minute flight to UT to get it done?

As for those who say it's ignorance on the part of the breeder and not abuse, what about the 100s and 1000s of dogs that are put down every day bc there are too many dogs being bred and not enough good homes for them? Supporting bybs directly contributes to the number of pets put down every day! an otherwise good home could have saved one instead they end up purchasing a puppy rather than rescuing or adopting one. Don't say there are no good ones out there or no puppies, that is just not the truth!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by capt_noonie

This situation is not unique, we see it happen again and again on YT. The fact that the OP knows better but chooses to ignore what he knows. He says he got the puppy "for a steal" and had put down half already. I going to just go and guess he put down $250. I would still walk away. That's a drop in the bucket if the pup gets sick. Just an office visit is already $40, bloodwork $100, meds easily $50, that's about $200 already right there, for one visit to the vet. LS surgery? who out there wants to share how much that costs, plus the last minute flight to UT to get it done?

As for those who say it's ignorance on the part of the breeder and not abuse, what about the 100s and 1000s of dogs that are put down every day bc there are too many dogs being bred and not enough good homes for them? Supporting bybs directly contributes to the number of pets put down every day! an otherwise good home could have saved one instead they end up purchasing a puppy rather than rescuing or adopting one. Don't say there are no good ones out there or no puppies, that is just not the truth!

That's for sure!

I hear people say they cannot adopt from rescue. While that may be true in many cases, there are plenty of pups in shelters. So...no one can tell me they absolutely cannot find one to adopt.

BUT...I am not saying everyone should adopt. It is not for everyone...and I have no issue with people buying from reputable breeders. It does make me sick to see them buying from backyard breeders, pet stores ... but I don't necessarily get angry with the person..it is the situation. I think people just don't think...and really don't totally comprehend how bad the problem is. That is why I harp on it every chance I get.

And to the person who said there is only one right way....I can only say for me that.........no, that is just not true. I have sent many people off to buy from a breeder...BUT I told them to look for a reputable breeder and steered them in the right direction. I do not pick breeders for people. I don't try to push anyone into adopting a rescue...it simply is not for everyone...BUT I do believe that many people really don't know how many real gems are found in shelters.

Here is one...my sweet Olivia.....now tell me that you would think you would find her in a shelter.......(I know many of you would realize it, but it is good for those who don't realize)..oh.... and she is healthy! Actually, all of my pups are in good health and they are all rescues. There really is a benefit to adopting an older pup...health issues are usually pretty clear at that point.
Please excuse the background...she was at the groomer.

[capt_noonie]

Olivia is a beauty!

[Twitterpate]

Please, please, please think really hard about this purchase. No matter how sweet this elderly lady is, it does not appear that this is a good environment to purchase your yorkie from.

As others have said, there are so many red flags that you have mentioned in your posts that I was actually sitting here shaking my head, mentally willing you to take a step back and look at the situation. I can tell from what you have said that you are already emotionally attached to this pup (I know, one look at that little face and it's sooo hard not to fall in love immediately).

But just look at the facts.

Yorkies are not cheap dogs. We all know that. Logically, if you are going to breed these dogs, you are NOT going to feed them something cheap like Ol' Roy. Taking away the fact that nutritionally it stinks, it logically follows that if you can't afford or don't care enough about your animals to feed something better than this, you don't care enough to be breeding. Period.

Crating for housetraining is fine. Crating all day long because you have too many animals to properly care for is a whole different animal. This means you are going to have a puppy that is not properly socialized, and most likely taken from its mother too early, which means he wasn't taught alot of things that mother dogs do. Like bite control. It's cute when he's little. It's not cute when he weighs 7 lbs and has a full set of teeth.

As a breeder, I am hoping you will be able to pull your heartstrings back, and take a good look at what you may be setting yourself up for. You have a good chance of being heartbroken with this little furbaby. I understand that you want to rescue him from this situation, but please reconsider. At the very least, if you risk it and bring him home for the weekend, don't look at him with rose-colored glasses. If he is fearful, doesn't have a clue about housetraining even with all the "crate-time" he's had at this point, and easily startled with new experiences or tries to hide, it is not a good sign. As much as you might want to keep him from being where he is, remember, you CANNOT make up for what he has experienced during his first 12 weeks. There is no replacing it. If you have the experience, you can help him to modify what he has missed, but you cannot take it back and make it happen for him again.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope things turn out well. My heart goes out to you over what you're going through.

~Twitterpate

[Twitterpate]

Oops, sorry, didn't read all the other posts, and apparently you have already had the above refrain repeated for several pages...my bad

I sincerely hope you get lucky and have no problems. It sounds like you are treating the situation as well as you can and trying to prepare for anything that may occur...I'm sure that as you run into things you can find most answers here on the forum.

Good luck to you and your new addition!

~Twitterpate

[Twitterpate]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Here is one...my sweet Olivia.....now tell me that you would think you would find her in a shelter.......(I know many of you would realize it, but it is good for those who don't realize)..oh.... and she is healthy!
Attachment 345462

OMG LadyJane! Olivia is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! She is a perfect example of the quality of dog that people don't realize are at shelters every day!
~Twitterpate

[Baroness]

I understand that people have strong feelings about getting a dog from the right breeders, adoption being a good avenue etc., but we should be more welcoming and less lecturing when someone new comes a knocking with news of a new addition coming to their home. People look for a site like this to learn how to care for their pet, or what to do if their pet has an issue, and they want to be in an environment where others have the same breed of pet and it feels like a community of friends. This doesn't feel like a very welcoming thread, and I would caution people to understand that your personal views are your own. There won't be many people coming here if instead of a welcome and happy thoughts they get a lecture and a dissertation on what some view as proper ettiquette on pet purchasing. Nor will you get many new members if people feel they are put under a microscope and their furbaby and them are less than adequate for so many within the group. Pets are pets and they ALL deserve love and care, there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal. Please show kindness and patience with those who first come here looking for support...in time they will learn from the many threads here that spell out bad vs good breeders and the inherent problems associated with it all. There doesn't need to be a bad time or an argument...just support and a good ear.

[Foster Mom]

Originally Posted by babiegurl

I know youre passionate about yorkies and the mistreatment of them and I dont want you to think I am trying to make light of the situation, but he already bought the dog. What else could have been done? Yes, the research came too late for the OP and I am sure a rubber stamp of approval was not needed. I mean, just by reading this thread, I've learned A LOT. I didnt know Ole Roy was bad (Never even heard of it) and now I know what to look for or not to look for when and if I decided to ever purchase a purebreed. I guess the damage was done by him purchasing the dog and there was no need to make him feel even worse. I've also learned theres no such thing as a "cutrate" yorkie and in the end you truly get what you pay for it.

When I got my first 2 yorkies I did not know enough about the brred and had not done my research. My male turned out to be very healthy and i was very lucky, however my little girl came from a greeder I did not know t at the time, as this woman told me she was 12 weeks old and in reality when I got her CKC papers she was only a mere 4 1/2 weeks old, i am so lucky she survived. Then she had alot of health problems when she was younger costing me thousands and thousands of dollars. She is really good now, thank God.

We all live and learn, I am all for giving advice and opinions but I agree with Yorkdaddy, it is all in how they are delivered. Sometimes it is not what you say but how you say it.

Congrats to you both on your new babies and I hope we get lots of pics!!!!

[Lisa and Pic]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

To YorkDaddy and babiegurl some times the advice here may seem heavy handed but it actually is based on a heavy heart. ladyjane has rescued many yorkies who have serious medical issues because of bad breeding practices. They have taken in dogs from distraught owners who have purchased a puppy for unconditional love only to be heart broken by overwhelming medical issues and have ended up having to go through the heart breaking process of having to surrender their dogs to a rescue so they can get the needed medical treatment they can not afford. Her anger comes from years of helping people who are emotionally devastated by bad breeders who usually get away with not having to accept the financial or emotional responsibility of their actions. Many of us here (ME) were not knowledgeable before we got our first puppy. We fell in love with the dog and even though we like to think we are rescuing the dog from a bad breeder we are still perpetuating the process. The puppies may get out with us but the poor parents are still left there to grind out more babies. They are the true victims and they are who ladyjane is truly fighting for to end the cruelty done to them. So her posts are to educate the next person so maybe one more BYB or puppymill will close down due to lack of business.YorkDaddy I think you have a kind a loving heart and will be a wonderful Daddy to Twix. I think you perhaps you felt you could provide a better environment for Twix that his breeder. And it was this concern that made you uncomfortable with her setup. I feel some bad breeders are not bad people just people who do not have the dog's best interest at heart. Honestly for all we know this family may know nothing about nutrition or medical care even for themselves. Many people in America eat a diet of the human version of Old Roy.
Since it is only one month I would keep Twix with the breeder. So many changes are happening in your life right now that may be unsettling for Twix. Also with moving there will be a lot of heavy boxes being stacked that might fall over when bumped, stuff waiting to be packed that a yorkie could get into. Plus the whole move is just exhausting and hectic so it might be better to wait.
YorkDaddy and babiegurl I hope you have a wonderful life with your furbabies. Best wishes

Really great post.

I wish I had been on YorkieTalk and had read Ladyjane's posts before taking in our first Yorkie from our daughter. Heartbreaking to have the dog you love die at three years old due to bad breeding from a backyard breeder. (I still cry when I think about her.) My eyes have been opened by Ladyjane's posts and others like her in rescue. I am so thankful that LJ is here to help educate, even if it is something that you do not want to hear or think about. She is passionate because she is on the front line of saving dogs lives and I cannot even imagine what she sees everyday. So very, very sad.

It sounds like you are not going to change your mind about this breeder, so wish you the best of luck and keeping my fingers crossed that your pup has many years of good health. If nothing else, perhaps this discussion will be helpful to you in the future, if you decide to add another pup to your family.

[York4Ever]

Originally Posted by Lisa and Pic

Really great post.

I wish I had been on YorkieTalk and had read Ladyjane's posts before taking in our first Yorkie from our daughter. Heartbreaking to have the dog you love die at three years old due to bad breeding from a backyard breeder. (I still cry when I think about her.) My eyes have been opened by Ladyjane's posts and others like her in rescue. I am so thankful that LJ is here to help educate, even if it is something that you do not want to hear or think about. She is passionate because she is on the front line of saving dogs lives and I cannot even imagine what she sees everyday. So very, very sad.

It sounds like you are not going to change your mind about this breeder, so wish you the best of luck and keeping my fingers crossed that your pup has many years of good health. If nothing else, perhaps this discussion will be helpful to you in the future, if you decide to add another pup to your family.

100% agreed.. these bad backyard breeders rely on the good heart of the buyers... this happened to me as well.. a long time ago when I had no idea that backyard breeders really existed.. i thought everybody was the same good heart as I was.. my 10 months yorkie died on my hands because of genetic problems.. i will never forget that as long as I live...

[Lisa and Pic]

Originally Posted by Baroness

I understand that people have strong feelings about getting a dog from the right breeders, adoption being a good avenue etc., but we should be more welcoming and less lecturing when someone new comes a knocking with news of a new addition coming to their home. People look for a site like this to learn how to care for their pet, or what to do if their pet has an issue, and they want to be in an environment where others have the same breed of pet and it feels like a community of friends. This doesn't feel like a very welcoming thread, and I would caution people to understand that your personal views are your own. There won't be many people coming here if instead of a welcome and happy thoughts they get a lecture and a dissertation on what some view as proper ettiquette on pet purchasing. Nor will you get many new members if people feel they are put under a microscope and their furbaby and them are less than adequate for so many within the group. Pets are pets and they ALL deserve love and care, there is no litmus test when it comes to owning and loving an animal. Please show kindness and patience with those who first come here looking for support...in time they will learn from the many threads here that spell out bad vs good breeders and the inherent problems associated with it all. There doesn't need to be a bad time or an argument...just support and a good ear.

In my humble opinion Yorkie Talk is full of people with good manners and I think a lot of what you want to see (nurture, support, good ear, etc.) goes on daily on this forum.

But, this is a Yorkie Forum first. What I have observed is that when the welfare of a dog is in question, this welfare trumps all.

I am not saying you have to agree, but for me... I would not want it any other way.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by YorkDaddy

I heard good reviews from 2 people about her puppies and I met her and loved her spirit and her other dogs were all healthy. I met the parents of my Yorkie and they were beautiful, healthy and had great personalities.

I have a great health warranty, got the dog for a "steal" and I am providing him with a good loving home (in 30 days, if I wait). That's all that matters to me!

A heath guarantee is only as good as the breeder behind it. It sounds like this woman can't afford good dog food or living conditions so how will she be able to cut you a check when you go back to collect on this "great health warranty"? Given that you can't even reach the daughter who controls the show, I'd say that your health guarantee is about as effective as a spit in the ocean. But good luck anyway.

[AlicetheYorkie]

Originally Posted by bellababy08

I agree!!! It sounds like you are already committed and love this pup. I would get him ASAP...you are already going to move...the worst the landlord could do is evict you...and he has to give you 30 day with the eviction or atleast that is the law here in florida.

That's a very good point.