Wow!!

[Ringo1]

What agendas are you referring to?

[Teegy]

really well said buster and my viewpoint was only on threads I have read, it's not pointing fingers at all breeders. It's more like buster said "I have noticed many people on YT have their personal beliefs and agendas that sometimes overwhelm the message they are trying to deliver. Your beliefs have come about through a lot of experiences and soul searching that you yourself have done. You can not assume that others here have come to the same conclusions or have even had the opportunity to learn these life lessons or confront the obstacles that you have in order to form your opinion. Is it not more important that a dog gets the help and advice it needs or that your agenda is voiced?"

[Teegy]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

I think rude is rude --

discourteous or impolite, especially in a deliberate way: arude reply.

uncivil, unmannerly, curt, brusque, impertinent, impudent,saucy, pert, fresh.


the degree maybe a matter of opinion.
I think there are times being rude is the only way one can be... or maybe one is pushed to being rude. That is understandable, but it is still rude.

I teach middle school students to cook.. today was a bad day.. after the 50th kid asked the same question and did the same mistake AFTER I explain over and over again how to do it correctly (we were having a food production lab) I think I may have been rude. I understand why.. but I was still rude to a few students.
Am I right? no. Am I human? well... I think so....
So... when the 50th kid did something STUPID.. and I was rude do you think that kid was open to learning? Do you think the rest of the lesson went well for him? Or do you think all he could think about was how rude I was? yelp.. and I am sure when he told the story to him mom he didn't tell about how he broke a rule or spilled the sugar... just that I was rude.

I think that is how it happens here... the same ole heartbreak, the same questions etc. But by being rude or harsh the lesson is lost... what is remembered were the cruel words. I think I understand what some of you mean, but the person asking the same (I really hate --oopps too harsh-- don't like the word stupid) silly question looses any lesson that really could change a life.

I think some of the fighting between such great knowledgeable people over size, color and geezzeee Idk what else is just petty! You all are right in your world, please just respect and agree to not agree.. That is really what makes the world great, and fun is how different we are.

Now.. I like all of you, don't want to hurt any feelings and think it is time for

2 enormous thumbs up, by the way that's a good life lesson and advice in general, thanks for the insight

[yorkietalkjilly]

Surely those of us who post here looking for help for our dog are far more interested in actually getting the advice and opinions sought to help the dog than they are their own feelings or the tone or language of a certain post? When my dog's life or health is an issue, I am solely interested in what it is going to take to get him better and/or keep him healthy. I could care less about what a poster seems to think of me - just please give me advice/opinion/information for my baby. There are no words/tone/agenda/criticism/implied criticism from any poster in this entire forum that would keep me from reading all of the post and acting on that advice if my sole intent in posting here is actual help for my dog. The last thing I am worried about when my dog's health is the issue are my feelings.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

IMO I know to some posters with over thousands of posts this may be an old rehashed topic but we are discussing the treatment of new members and how answers are intended and/or perceived by them, not by the older members who know the background of those responding so they interpret when reading their responses. Processing in their head, I know that poster they are usually kind they just got overheated in their response. To the new poster they only know they came for help and are all ready in a upset state of mind because their dog is having difficulties. If they are attacked it will only put them on the defensive even more and they may be resistant to hearing the message because of how it is stated. I have noticed many people on YT have their personal beliefs and agendas that sometimes overwhelm the message they are trying to deliver. Your beliefs have come about through a lot of experiences and soul searching that you yourself have done. You can not assume that others here have come to the same conclusions or have even had the opportunity to learn these life lessons or confront the obstacles that you have in order to form your opinion. Is it not more important that a dog gets the help and advice it needs or that your agenda is voiced? I have been haunted for days by the post by the woman who watched her new dog die of hypoglycaemia. I wanted to shout at her. As I sat trying to phrase what I wanted to say, I thought she is all ready heartbroken, she was not cruel just unaware, uneducated on how fragile Yorkies are. Would my venting have made me feel better, no, the dog better, no, the poor person who was all ready suffering no. So I just said that there was a lot of knowledge to be learned here if she wanted to get another dog. Making her wrong for not knowing would not have made anything better. So I can understand that those of you who have been on here longer are haunted by all the posts you have read, the people you have reached out to help. Please just remember when you were new and just learning about Yorkies and take a long look at what you post before you submit it. Will it help the situation or just hurt. I thank all the breeders and posters who offer advice and support to us new learners.

Most people responded the same way you did; if we are thinking about the same thread ~ and I believe we are.

I see no rudeness on that thread only lots of condolences.

[mauirobin]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think the disagreement in this thread is that many of us don't see the cruelness and nastiness from the seasoned breeders that you do. Those are VERY strong words. What I see is people taking pot shots at the good breeders. These seasoned breeders give advice, such as "take the dog to the vet, it's life is in your hands," and people see this as cruel. I see the people who ignore this advice as cruel.

This was not meant as an anti-breeder thread. The few that I know for sure who are breeders here, I have only seen be harsh once, and I thoroughly agreed with that at the time. It was the thread with the 13 yr old who posted about her dog being in labor. She was told in multiple replies that it was URGENT to get her dog to the vet. It just didn't seem that she was getting the URGENT part down. I personally appreciate the breeders that I have seen post with help, as I am learning a lot about other things that might not necessarily be pregnancy issues, but yorkie issues.

It's the ones that aren't breeders (that I can tell), that I have seen get really nasty. It just usually is in the breeding threads, but isn't necessarily only seen there. Sorry if I was mis-understood on that part of it.

The message I was trying to get across, Buster Brown just did it for me so much more eloquently.

[mauirobin]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Most people responded the same way you did; if we are thinking about the same thread ~ and I believe we are.

I see no rudeness on that thread only lots of condolences.

Buster Brown wasn't pointing out rudeness in the thread....he was pointing out that he/she wanted to scream at her, but only typed a helpful reply instead.

[BustersMom13]

Originally Posted by dexterandalana

i understand your point and some people can be harsh to newbies. but most are doing it out of love for the breed and animals. far too many people are ignorant of the facts of how unnecissary dog breedings are a direct cause of the over population of shelters and rescue groups.

i urge anyone who is thinking of breeding their dog just because they think their dog is cute, or just to make a couple bucks without being serious to read this article....

My Name is Sam | Life With Dogs

having soooo many unecissary litters in north america is a direct cause of stories like this to happen EVERY DAY.....

My Name is Sam made me cry at work! I had to hurry up to the bathroom before people started asking questions! So sad.. I'm going to go home hug Buster and not let go...

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by mauirobin

This was not meant as an anti-breeder thread. The few that I know for sure who are breeders here, I have only seen be harsh once, and I thoroughly agreed with that at the time. It was the thread with the 13 yr old who posted about her dog being in labor. She was told in multiple replies that it was URGENT to get her dog to the vet. It just didn't seem that she was getting the URGENT part down. I personally appreciate the breeders that I have seen post with help, as I am learning a lot about other things that might not necessarily be pregnancy issues, but yorkie issues.

It's the ones that aren't breeders (that I can tell), that I have seen get really nasty. It just usually is in the breeding threads, but isn't necessarily only seen there. Sorry if I was mis-understood on that part of it.

The message I was trying to get across, Buster Brown just did it for me so much more eloquently.

I'm glad that you can see that, it's just that these same great breeders get so much flack from other breeders that they weren't kind enough. It happens so often that we have lost many of the good breeders from posting on that type of thread. I hope those other "kind" breeders are willing to step up to the plate, and even more importantly, I hope their advice is solid, too often, it isn't. What would you rather have, true, perhaps harsh advice, or supportive poor advice?

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by mauirobin

Buster Brown wasn't pointing out rudeness in the thread....he was pointing out that he/she wanted to scream at her, but only typed a helpful reply instead.

Yes that is what I meant. When I first posted on YT it was because the puppy I had purchased at a pet store was gravely ill. I received compassion and support. No one attacked me for being stupid, which I was and was all ready learning the hard lessons in regards to puppy mills. I had been informed that they were not from puppy mills and I foolishly believed them. Was I wrong, YES 100%. !! Will I warn others and counsel them to find a reputable breeder you better believe it. Would I condemn someone for having done the same thing no. I was so frightened and upset when I posted that had I been attacked for my stupidity I would have been so hurt I do not know if I would have stayed to get all the valuable advice that has helped me be a better mom and advocate for Buster. It just seems to me if someone is asking for help for a sick or injured dog it should not matter if it is 2lbs or 20lbs, yorkie or morkie, carrying the piebald gene, bought, adopted, or rescued. What is important is that the dog get the best advice or recommendations to get it helped. All other agendas can be discussed in other threads. Now if someone is asking for advice about the issues/agendas go for it because I am all for hearing opinions. I will sift through all information and make my decisions on what I feel is right for me. I am an old dog but I am always willing to learn new tricks just don't hit me on the nose when trying to teach me.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by mauirobin

Buster Brown wasn't pointing out rudeness in the thread....he was pointing out that he/she wanted to scream at her, but only typed a helpful reply instead.

I'm sure we all wanted to ~ but we all typed a thoughtful reply instead. Perhaps we aren't all that different after all? Could it be that our similarities outweigh our differences more often than not when it really matters?

I don't know. It's just a thought and my last one on the subject.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I'm sure we all wanted to ~ but we all typed a thoughtful reply instead. Perhaps we aren't all that different after all? Could it be that our similarities outweigh our differences more often than not when it really matters?

I don't know. It's just a thought and my last one on the subject.

That's a great last thought!

[mauirobin]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm glad that you can see that, it's just that these same great breeders get so much flack from other breeders that they weren't kind enough. It happens so often that we have lost many of the good breeders from posting on that type of thread. I hope those other "kind" breeders are willing to step up to the plate, and even more importantly, I hope their advice is solid, too often, it isn't. What would you rather have, true, perhaps harsh advice, or supportive poor advice?

True & harsh advice isn't bad. Like I said though, when the posts got nasty, there was no advice involved, just nastiness, and as far as I know....they weren't breeders either. But who knows...again, the breeders I have seen post offered advice....and then stated their feelings on the matter. Totally acceptable.

In other words, I was asking the non-advice giving folks to curtail their nastiness. And really, the ones that are nasty only are nasty...usually no advice given, or following a breeder's advice, might almost verbatim repeat that advice before posting their nastiness.

Basically, if you have nothing to say that is helpful, then don't say it! Even in this thread, folks were twisting my observation into a "rude" comment, as it's the eye of the beholder, etc.

When a person goes online & asks for help, it might not be because they are trying to avoid vet bills & get free info.

Had my hubby not gone online and researched Pinesol & Phenol poisoning...(I was at the vet with the first pup), we would not have known the cause. (I wanted to kick him for not realizing the 2nd pup was having the same symptoms when I came home. I grabbed the 2nd pup & back to the vet I went.

My pup was at the vet's, & they diagnosed liver shunt....till the 2nd one came in. WE were the ones that told them that we thought it was Pine-Sol poisoning, a couple hours after they had the pups.

He was online & doing searches, & researching.....and NOT trying to avoid vet bills...he doesn't pay the vet bills anyways...lol.

He just wanted to make sure the pups were being taken care of. And trying to find out everything he could. Granted there are folks out there that don't want to go to the vet....and don't have the money to go...or just don't want to spend the money to go.

But I saw that some posters got accused of this before anyone knew what was going on...

Again, I don't think these were breeders, just folks who passionately feel the way they should. And old-timers who have probably seen it all. I was just asking that before we pre-judge, call names, insinuate that they are less than human, & start attacking the OP, that we stop & think about what we are doing....

Also, it's part of the rules here....Yorkie Talk...Rules & Regulations, section B-part 1. Please be civil and do not personally attack anyone or their opinions. If you disagree with a member's approach or method, feel free to reply respectfully. Otherwise, you may choose to ignore their post. YT is not the place for rude, snide, or disrespectful remarks towards your fellow member or YT. We do not tolerate members who take advantage of our community with stories that don't make sense or those who post outright lies. We rely on an honor code in our community; lying to our community, stealing pictures or other content is not allowed.

I was just asking for "Respectfully". It turned into a rather nice discussion..then a rather un-nice discussion, then some nice again, some nasty and now....I'm hoping for the conclusion here soon.

I've been called "rude" for just starting this thread.....lol.

A great thread all in all...some of you have seen it before, but like I said previously, I have learned a lot about individuals here since this thread. There are a lot of nice folks here!

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Yes that is what I meant. When I first posted on YT it was because the puppy I had purchased at a pet store was gravely ill. I received compassion and support. No one attacked me for being stupid, which I was and was all ready learning the hard lessons in regards to puppy mills. I had been informed that they were not from puppy mills and I foolishly believed them. Was I wrong, YES 100%. !! Will I warn others and counsel them to find a reputable breeder you better believe it. Would I condemn someone for having done the same thing no. I was so frightened and upset when I posted that had I been attacked for my stupidity I would have been so hurt I do not know if I would have stayed to get all the valuable advice that has helped me be a better mom and advocate for Buster. It just seems to me if someone is asking for help for a sick or injured dog it should not matter if it is 2lbs or 20lbs, yorkie or morkie, carrying the piebald gene, bought, adopted, or rescued. What is important is that the dog get the best advice or recommendations to get it helped. All other agendas can be discussed in other threads. Now if someone is asking for advice about the issues/agendas go for it because I am all for hearing opinions. I will sift through all information and make my decisions on what I feel is right for me. I am an old dog but I am always willing to learn new tricks just don't hit me on the nose when trying to teach me.

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I'm sure we all wanted to ~ but we all typed a thoughtful reply instead. Perhaps we aren't all that different after all? Could it be that our similarities outweigh our differences more often than not when it really matters?

I don't know. It's just a thought and my last one on the subject.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!
One day when studying other countries I realized that all mothers loved LOVED their children (I know... it sounds stupid but.. I was young) and then I realized we are all really the same!!!

I have cried so many times on this site, I have received so much help from members of this site. I rather have a true honest person speak from the heart and deal with a little in your face behavior (I don't think I will ever use the word rude again) than fake polite sugar people. Now, saying that, badgering and narrow sited is different. We need to listen to the passion in a person's voice.
I don't think the ladies who are the breeders are really the problem. I know I have changed my opinion a bit.. I think it is so many people saying the same thing it becomes overwhelming. Notice... it is only a problem when the new person will not EVEN listen (I didn't say agree.. )..who only want the experts of YT to agree with them.. Who said you only become defensive when someone does not do what you want... or totally agrees with you????

I still think when applied to teaching (like me in the classroom) I should temper my way of speaking with my students.. no need to put them down.
But right now... on yt.. we need to see the good !!!!!!!!