parti changing from white to blue

[yorkiegirl2]

Jeanie your pup is cute.
Here is a few interesting links.

One for Sue based on using horse's in the coat color.
"More About Color And Texture (part III)" by Hugo Ibanez-Hornung
Yorky Club Magazine - United by passion for Yorkies.
Mrs. Gordon (Wildweir), the most experienced and successful breeder in America (look at my article, The Yorkie Club Magazine, #8 - Nov. 2007) was willing me her copy of The Color Of Horses, that gesture along was a privileged but to top that, she also included the original copy of the treatise What colors a Yorkie written by her late sister Janet Bennett, based on this particular book. I was familiar with this treatise, I was present when it was red for the first time by Mrs. Gordon at a Seminar at The Yorkshire Terrier Specialty in California in the 70’s.

Number 2 Yorky Club Magazine - United by passion for Yorkies.
More about Color and Texture" by Hugo Ibanez
Opinions from Joan Gordon, Roberta Rothenbach, Mary Ann Durrer and others.

And a history lesson toward the end of article
In 1845, one of them was described “resembling a Scotch (not Scottish) terrier, weight about 8 or 9 lbs., with good terrier head and eye but with a long body. The legs and muzzle only were tanned and hair on the body would be about 3 or 4 inches.” His mate was described as “a drop-eared Sky under 12 lbs with plenty of coat of blue shade but destitute of tan on any part of the body.” The third dog to play his part in the breed’s foundation was “a bitch, an old English Terrier with tanned head, ears, legs and sort of grizzle back.” Most of these English Terriers also had white markings.
These genes from these dogs are the beginning of our breed. It seems that after 163 years, those initial genes would have disappeared or have been diluted; apparently, they did no disappear, they just laid dormant, in sleep mode.
Some canine experts believe our purebred dogs are locked in a genetic trap due to the evolutionary and hereditary process. What does it all mean? It means that after so many years it is difficult to eliminate influences of breeds used in early foundation stock. Why? Well, it could be argued that at the beginning all were somewhat inbred, as any given breed would have a relatively small member of founding sire.
What are the consequences?
Well, as you can see we are attempting to breed the perfect dog from imperfect ancestors. 163 years seem legendary, but, genetically, Yorkies are newbies (babies) As you can see our ancestors were “tutti frutti” which makes our breeding more complicated. Nevertheless, considering all the odds, we have succeeded in most of the elements of type. All we have to do to reassure our success just take a pick of pictures of Yorkies appearing in books and magazines from the last century, it would seem – to our reality now – that many were just pets.
No one knows better than you that as much we have progressed, we can not get complacent, still the hill that we must climbed is too steep.

[JeanieK]

OK I waited to comment on the dominant/recessive issue untill I took the time to check my book on genetics. I thought that I had read that wavy was recessive, but y'all had me swecoind guessing myself.

Here is what is said on the subject.

In many breeds, the breeders have observed that straight coated parents sometimes produce wavy-coated puppies. Whitney tried several crosses to determine the heredity of wavy versus straight. When he crossed a wavy coated Borzoi to a Foxhoud and a Bloodhound, the puppies had straight coats. Whitney also bred a wavy coated Borzoi to a straight coated Borzoi. Half of the puppies had wavy coats and half had straight coats. He concluded that wavy coats are indeterminate, but in general straight tends to be dominant over wavy.

Taken from, "Genetics An Introduction for Dog Breeders" by Jackie Isabell

So keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for straight coated puppies as I do my own research. All wavy coated off spring will be sold to good homes as pets only.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BaxtersMommy

Curly, straight, white, grey, silver, blue....whatever. LOL Sure is pretty I know that, I guess the next time you can straighten the hair before you take a picture.

It is a very interesting question....I know with my yorkies their hair continually changes colors. Does this ever stop?

Thank You. I had that same thought.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Please all of us, stop judging because of color, hair type or texture. we all have yorkies. Yes, they are not all alike, but they are Yorkies.
Please this year, vow to be nice to your fellow members no matter what kind of yorkie they own. They love them just as much as you do.
Lets start the New Year in good way, Be nice to all yorkie owners, No matter if they aren't show quality, they are still someones baby.
Let us welcome all here and not judge.

Let's try to keep all posts positive and informative. keep all negative thoughts so yourself.

Just to clarify, I have not taken any personal offense from any of the posts. It did make me go and recheck what I thought I already knew.

I feel good about the changes that I have already made to my breeding program, and the changes that I have planned but have not yet implemented.

As for my stud, I was given lemons, but I plan to end up with lemonade, and to come out of this a little older and a whole lot wiser.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I apologize if I am taking this further off topic, but I found some of these articles on the genes behind hair curl very interesting.

First, I guess, there is a distinction between whether you're dealing with a dog breed known for curly hair, like, say a poodle, vs. a golden retriever. I would THINK that a yorkie would fall into light curl / straight, since many yorkies have curly coats (not like poodle curly though).

This is definitely not my area of expertise, so I am probably missing a lot of this. But I thought the articles presented were talking about how variants in three genes produced seven major coat types. HOWEVER, I don't think the yorkie coat type was described, unless I missed it.

Here's an excerpt on the 7 coat types:

- Short-haired dogs like basset hounds have none of the variant genes, just the ancestral form of each gene.
- Wire-haired dogs such as Australian terriers have the variant form of only the RSPO2 gene.
- Dogs with wiry and curly hair – airedale terriers, for example – have variants of both RSPO2 and KRT71 genes. <<Is this where the yorkie goes?>>
- Long-haired dogs like golden retrievers have a variant form of the FGF5 gene.
- Long-haired dogs with furnishings, such as the bearded collie, have variant forms of FGF5 and RSPO2.
- Curly haired dogs such as Irish water spaniels have the variant forms of the FGF5 and KRT71 genes.
- Curly haired dogs with furnishings – such as the bichon frise breed and some Portuguese water dogs, including President Obama's dog Bo – have the variant form of all three genes


Anyone care to elaborate? I love it when we get all sciency up in here.

Did they specify a difference between wavy and curly. Wouldn't the yorkies go into the group with furnishings?

Now I have to go an look up what all of those letters mean.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

OK I waited to comment on the dominant/recessive issue untill I took the time to check my book on genetics. I thought that I had read that wavy was recessive, but y'all had me swecoind guessing myself.

Here is what is said on the subject.

In many breeds, the breeders have observed that straight coated parents sometimes produce wavy-coated puppies. Whitney tried several crosses to determine the heredity of wavy versus straight. When he crossed a wavy coated Borzoi to a Foxhoud and a Bloodhound, the puppies had straight coats. Whitney also bred a wavy coated Borzoi to a straight coated Borzoi. Half of the puppies had wavy coats and half had straight coats. He concluded that wavy coats are indeterminate, but in general straight tends to be dominant over wavy.

Taken from, "Genetics An Introduction for Dog Breeders" by Jackie Isabell

So keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for straight coated puppies as I do my own research. All wavy coated off spring will be sold to good homes as pets only.

Jeanie I knew of a stud who had a more of a cotton wavy coat and threw straight silk coated puppies 90 % of the time.

[QuickSilver]

Yes, the yorkie might be the long-haired dog with furnishings. I wasn't sure. I would have expected a distinction between "fur" and "hair".

The article didn't specify which genes were dominant, I don't think, just that 3 genes control most of the coat variation we see in dogs.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Jeanie your pup is cute.
Here is a few interesting links.

One for Sue based on using horse's in the coat color.
"More About Color And Texture (part III)" by Hugo Ibanez-Hornung
Yorky Club Magazine - United by passion for Yorkies.
Mrs. Gordon (Wildweir), the most experienced and successful breeder in America (look at my article, The Yorkie Club Magazine, #8 - Nov. 2007) was willing me her copy of The Color Of Horses, that gesture along was a privileged but to top that, she also included the original copy of the treatise What colors a Yorkie written by her late sister Janet Bennett, based on this particular book. I was familiar with this treatise, I was present when it was red for the first time by Mrs. Gordon at a Seminar at The Yorkshire Terrier Specialty in California in the 70’s.

Number 2 Yorky Club Magazine - United by passion for Yorkies.
More about Color and Texture" by Hugo Ibanez
Opinions from Joan Gordon, Roberta Rothenbach, Mary Ann Durrer and others.

And a history lesson toward the end of article
In 1845, one of them was described “resembling a Scotch (not Scottish) terrier, weight about 8 or 9 lbs., with good terrier head and eye but with a long body. The legs and muzzle only were tanned and hair on the body would be about 3 or 4 inches.” His mate was described as “a drop-eared Sky under 12 lbs with plenty of coat of blue shade but destitute of tan on any part of the body.” The third dog to play his part in the breed’s foundation was “a bitch, an old English Terrier with tanned head, ears, legs and sort of grizzle back.” Most of these English Terriers also had white markings.
These genes from these dogs are the beginning of our breed. It seems that after 163 years, those initial genes would have disappeared or have been diluted; apparently, they did no disappear, they just laid dormant, in sleep mode.
Some canine experts believe our purebred dogs are locked in a genetic trap due to the evolutionary and hereditary process. What does it all mean? It means that after so many years it is difficult to eliminate influences of breeds used in early foundation stock. Why? Well, it could be argued that at the beginning all were somewhat inbred, as any given breed would have a relatively small member of founding sire.
What are the consequences?
Well, as you can see we are attempting to breed the perfect dog from imperfect ancestors. 163 years seem legendary, but, genetically, Yorkies are newbies (babies) As you can see our ancestors were “tutti frutti” which makes our breeding more complicated. Nevertheless, considering all the odds, we have succeeded in most of the elements of type. All we have to do to reassure our success just take a pick of pictures of Yorkies appearing in books and magazines from the last century, it would seem – to our reality now – that many were just pets.
No one knows better than you that as much we have progressed, we can not get complacent, still the hill that we must climbed is too steep.

Thank you for those links. I don't have the time to read them right now, but I definitely will later today.

[lisaly]

Jeannie, I think the face on your baby is really precious.

I have a question about something that has made me curious for a long time. I had three girls all with the same sire (with a beautiful silk coat) within a year of each other. Two of them had very straight, thick hair and one whose hair was very straight and thick when she was young, but by the time she was much older, it started to curl. The use of a blow drier on it for five minutes would straighten it, but if she came out of the pool and air dried in the sun, you could see little curls. I thought it was beautiful, but I wondered why she was straight for so many years and then got curly. I won't be insulted, no matter what the answer. She was my baby and I loved her just the way she was. I know her coat wasn't the breed standard.

[MauiGirl]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Not that I feel that I owe anyone an explanation about anything, but here is a picture of one of the sires other offspring

Attachment 334514

I have read on this very forum, where show breeders have said they have bred nonstandard dogs, because they had other features that they were breeding for. Now I assume that they knew that some of the offspring would have the "nonstandard" traits, but they also hoped that at least one would carry the traits that they were breeding for and not have the non standard traits.

And Yes I was taken when I was sold the dog with the wavy hair. But he has a gorgeous face and a nice compact sturdy body. This is a learning process.

He is IRRESISTIBLY CUTE! Can you clone him for me? (haha) Just throwing another twist to the thread that has gone way off the original topic of COLOR, which is very interesting to me since Tiki has the same darker roots thing going on.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

OK I waited to comment on the dominant/recessive issue untill I took the time to check my book on genetics. I thought that I had read that wavy was recessive, but y'all had me swecoind guessing myself.

Here is what is said on the subject.

In many breeds, the breeders have observed that straight coated parents sometimes produce wavy-coated puppies. Whitney tried several crosses to determine the heredity of wavy versus straight. When he crossed a wavy coated Borzoi to a Foxhoud and a Bloodhound, the puppies had straight coats. Whitney also bred a wavy coated Borzoi to a straight coated Borzoi. Half of the puppies had wavy coats and half had straight coats. He concluded that wavy coats are indeterminate, but in general straight tends to be dominant over wavy.

Taken from, "Genetics An Introduction for Dog Breeders" by Jackie Isabell

So keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for straight coated puppies as I do my own research. All wavy coated off spring will be sold to good homes as pets only.

This page came from a book about Yorkies, I think it was called the "The Complete Yorkshire Terrier", but I can't verify this yet. A book on Yorkies might be a better guide. I do think the picture you showed was more than a wavey hair, the curl looks like starts at the roots. Wavey hair usually means not perfectly bone staight, as in slight wave at the ends.

[chachi]

I think the blue on the back is pretty. One of my yorkies has wavy hair too. Both his sire and dam had straight hair. This has to be common even in the show ring because you see pictures of exhibiters taking a straight iron to their yorkies hair

[QuickSilver]

Can someone define the term "hard silk", btw?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Yes, the yorkie might be the long-haired dog with furnishings. I wasn't sure. I would have expected a distinction between "fur" and "hair".

The article didn't specify which genes were dominant, I don't think, just that 3 genes control most of the coat variation we see in dogs.

You might like these aritcles. Genes that mix rough with the smooth in dogs may help fight human disease - Times Online

Coat Variation in the Domestic Dog Is Governed by Variants in Three Genes

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

I think the blue on the back is pretty. One of my yorkies has wavy hair too. Both his sire and dam had straight hair. This has to be common even in the show ring because you see pictures of exhibiters taking a straight iron to their yorkies hair

It was explained earlier that a straight iron is used after the wraps come out, wraps can cause the hair to almost look permed.