Yorkshire Terrier and the Parti/Tricolor

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I have been looking for a book to have to read at lunch time. I often eat by myself, and a book is excellent company. (says the nerd )

I understand, my spare timeis spent reading.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by dinkyweil

This is a very interesting thread. I know zero to nothing about breeding, showing, etc.
So here is a question that may seem really dumb. I've looked at images of Biewers and Parti's and to my undiscerning eye, I see no difference. So what is it?

To my understanding (and I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong) Biewers can all trace their lines to a particular breeder in Germany, where as Parti's come from many different lines in the US.

[DvlshAngel985]

Is it a pricey book? I see prices range from $15-$80

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Is it a pricey book? I see prices range from $15-$80

I've bought two copies of this book, found the best deals on ebay.

[FlDebra]

A lot of replies while I was away from a computer today. My original intent was to have a central location for references.

Jencar and others: When I said "OPINIONS" from those who sell the parti-yorkies are not desired, it was my intent to get references instead of individual opinions. I even left mine out (even though I know it is clear by the references I provided). Breezeway for example, is providing references. I have not gone to her website but will try to get to that tonight as she mentioned having more references there. I wanted BOTH sides to input -- just not the usual where many will give what they THINK happened but with no reference to back up the opinion. IF there is a "parti" breeder that ALSO has credentials that would count her as an expert in the Yorkshire Terrier field, and she has published in either the Yorkshire Terrier magazine or a book of her own, then that would be great! It would be similar to quoting Joan Gordon (which both sides are doing). She is as Mary said, one of the Yorkie Matriarchs, breeding for decades, traveling, studying, teaching, writing books and extensive articles. She is considered by most to be one of the best Yorkshire Terrier experts. My thoughts were to make a place we could even point others to when they wanted more info on the debate.

It is VERY interesting to me. I wish there was a definitive way to settle the question but there doesn't seem to be. I like reading both sides of the coin when REAL information is presented, historically and scientifically correct. I also think people thinking of buying an off-color yorkie should have all of the information available before they make a purchase. The way it is now, most just read what the breeder tells them or they might not even do that. I have talked online with a new "parti" owner who had no idea there was any controversy or that they could not be shown with the AKC. She got papers and as such just thought they were eligible for anything a blue & tan yorkie could do. I don't think that is fair to new owners. They should KNOW the AKC and YTCA stance and that there is a big question about the history itself.

I do think the current opinion of the YTCA and AKC that they are off-color, disqualifying and SHOULD NOT BE BRED should be adhered to. I have NO question in my own mind about that part of the debate. I do have some questions about the history and just where white was introduced.

I am looking forward to more references as time passes. It would be great to have all available references in one location (at least links). I have been sent some other YT thread links that cover this subject (most of which happened while I was on my "break") so I have a lot of reading to do.

Thank you all!!!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I don't know why this has to be rehashed over and over. Any information one might need is posted on my website or on the parti Yorkshire Terrier club website.
There is no way Linda Bush could trace who the culprit is for all the parti color dogs. Tri-color dogs were showing up in England long before they arrived in the U.S. because the yorkie originated there. As I posted part of the letter I received from Joan Gordon, I will post again for those who did not see it.
"Dear Ms Mullins
Thank you for your letter, I'm glad you enjoyed our books
I must say however that I'm always fascinated by the amount of misinformation that is placed on the computer and even more so when it becomes exaggerated. WE actually had exactly one tri-color puppy born in all the years we bred Yorkies. After my sister died I gave up breeding extensively as it was what we did together. Since Jans death in 1985. I have bred exactly 4 litters and I stopped breeding completely probably 9 or 10 years ago. I could go look it up but I know Katie and Nicky were the last 2 puppies born.
I have shown several dogs that I purchased from others since then.
Our one tri-color puppy was born Dec. 10, 1976 and was a single puppy. His sire was Wildweir Counterspy and his dam was Wildweir Stitch in Time.
His Recorded name Wildweir Triplicate. He was reg with AKC #: TB426843. This was a first litter for either of his parents. We had the bitch spayed and the male neutered and both were placed as pets. I had heard of Yorkies being born in England that were Tri's but "Trippy" was the only one we'd ever seen.
We kept him until he matured. He was born a white dog with black spots and developed his tan marking as he grew up. His black spots turned to blue-gray and his tan markings came out by the time he was around six months. His temperament was all yorkie and size was very typical around 5 1/2 to 6 lbs. His coat was not as wiry as a fox terrier but certainly not as silky as a yorkie. We placed him with friends who had tried to buy him earlier when he was 2 years old and he lived to be 12 years old.
I don't have a problem writing about our "Trippy" but since the others who bred mismarked dogs that I knew about are deceased, I don't believe I can comment on them. I can only hope that they seek the truth and not just rumors!
If they thought Trippy was not a yorkie, why did they register him with AKC.
She also states in her letter that the tri-color was imported into Germany from England. Other colors have always popped up in the yorkie. Joan stated that in the 1930's there was a breeder that was raising golds exclusively and AKC put a cease and desist on him.
The real truth is that they have always existed, No, they are not the standard, we all agree on that but that does not mean that others colors were never born.

The Wildweir dogs do not trace back to Streamglen kennels, She did not know why they got a tri color, it just happens.
In her book she did state that:" "It is not unusual to find small white marks on one or more toes or a fine white line in the lower fore jaw. These will not be visible as an adult. A large amount of white marks on the chest, paws, jaws, or skull, places a yorkie into a tri-color classification and it is very wise to guard against this possibility. Yorkshire terrier puppies can be born of colors that automatically deprive them of the necessary qualities to become the proper colors of the breed. They can be born all black: all tan: tan with black points; tri-color: black, white, and tan; all blue; bluish grey with tan points; and so remain or change to another shade of their newly born colors.

Joan in no way ever stated that partis were not born from 2 traditional color yorkies. What she does say is that these dogs are mismarked and should not be shown. That does does not constitute them being another breed or a mix.
Malcoms book does not anywhere mention a parti yorkie or a Biewer.

Parti yorkies can be born from 2 traditional yorkies, I don't know where you get your misinformation from. Joans "Trippy" was born from 2 regular yorkies.
There are enough books and references that say there were other colors, you cant go around and just pick and choose only the ones you want to believe.
I believe I have as good a source as there is by having it in writing from Joan Gordon herself. No she did not think the line should be carried on when a parti showed up as they were not standard and she refers to them as mismarked. Mismarked , Yes , but still a yorkshire terrier.
You can also go to the big thread mentioned earlier and it tells about the fox and the white suddenly showing up in it. You might want to read that.

Not much more to say on that subject.

You can argue the point all you want but these are facts, not opinions.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Who's Joan Gordon?

Surely you are joking.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Is it a pricey book? I see prices range from $15-$80

I bought the older version used off of Amazon. Can't remember the cost but a whole lot cheaper than the newer version.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Is it a pricey book? I see prices range from $15-$80

No, go to amazon.com

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Surely you are joking.

Pet owners usually aren't aware of who is who in the yorkie world. At least she is attempting to educate herself.
She's even PM'd me with questions that most breeders aren't aware of.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Surely you are joking.

i didn't know either until this thread so hold the sarcasm and realize we're not ALL into famous breeders and yorkie founders thanks!

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

No, go to amazon.com

I hadn't seen your edited response when I asked about price. I did check Amazon, now I just have to order it.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i didn't know either until this thread so hold the sarcasm and realize we're not ALL into famous breeders and yorkie founders thanks!

It wasn't sarcasm, I was amazed, as I have quoted from that book in every thread about partis and listed the author.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i didn't know either until this thread so hold the sarcasm and realize we're not ALL into famous breeders and yorkie founders thanks!

Yeah, it seems funny to me when people name drop on here. I'm not into famous people in any genre. Famous breeders to pop icons are all people to me, so I don't follow names. I do however like to learn, and will be looking forward to getting this book.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i didn't know either until this thread so hold the sarcasm and realize we're not ALL into famous breeders and yorkie founders thanks!

I agree, many who read this will not have any idea who the early yorkshire terrier people were. I surely did not know prior to 2006! No room here for high handedness or trying to belittle those wanting to learn! We all started somewhere!!! I will just bet there was a day in the life of every person reading here when they did not know who she was!

If we could just keep the sarcasm, insults, and other TOS violations off the thread, maybe we could have a valid discussion without a thread being locked closed.