Yorkshire Terrier and the Parti/Tricolor

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm referring how you mention your specific buyers in order to back up a point. You do this quite often, here's just one thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...08-amazed.html



Later, you mention that no one has answered your above question, about "what are we saying about the people who own your puppies.



Here you give the names of your pet buyers, I guess for those who don't know.




This certainly is NOT the first thread in which you did this. I have no problem with you writing thread after thread on who on YT has bought your puppies, I, however, have a problem with you using that fact to back up a point. I do think some wonderful people bought dogs from you.

Do you even get my reason for asking that question and bringing up who bought from me....it was kind of a tongue-in-cheek comment/question. But you said that I bring this over and over again so this one thread is what you were actually talking about? Funny because I even say, in that thread, how I have NO intentions of breeding again so why in the world do you think that this statement would be written to boost me as a breeder? I DO NOT PLAN TO BREED AGAIN so it really doesn't matter if I bring up who bought Livi's puppies a million times. Do you not get this?

[TammyJM]

Nancy, if you are so against the breeding of parti Yorkies, then you have targeted the wrong person with trying to make up things about me. That thread, with my own written words, are there for all to see. I clearly state that I do not plan to breed any longer....so why are you questioning my motives when there's none to be found???

[gemy]

This thread has gone off topic, and I remained confused again about Partis.

I've brought up on a number of occasions the paucity of CHIC numbers for the Yorkshire Terrier one
of the top five most popular breeds in USA and Canada. The YTCA has in my opinion moved in the right direction with the two tests they require, although BATS not being one as a prebreeding/screening test is something I don't understand, as well as Hyperuricosuria.

I also agree the new entries to the CHIC database will be illuminating as to the commitment of YTCA breeders to the CHIC program. And to follow the analogy, to the Parti breeders as well. If as seems to be a common statement; health is foremost in "any" breeding program, then do your utmost to take advantage of the best of health tests available. And yes it is costly, and not so convenient to find a board certified opthamologist, but it is just one of the hurdles a dedicated breeder will overcome.

Personally for me, personal recommendations of breeder xyz by YT member abc, are a very small part of what is my assessment process of a breeder I am looking at buying a purebred dog from. A large part of that assessment is founded on health tests done, and not just the minimum but above and beyond the minimum. I'd look at temperament tests, working ability of the dogs (and yes Yorkies were a working breed, which today has morphed into a "companion dog", certainly if that is their current main function, shouldn't breeders be breeding for a stable, loving, confident dog? I'd look at how the breeder supported me the "new" owner over the lifetime of my pet, but particularly in the first three months of ownership, when everything is all brand new, and I have the heeby jeebes over diet or stool, or barking, or teething, or the countless other things we worry about.

For me the Yorkshire Terrier that I love is the standard steel blue and tan, with a lively personality, confident, courageous, and very lovable. But they are stubborn, can be yappy, and do like to go their own way at times.

Are Partis cute, well I think so. Are they Yorkies, should they be shown? Quite frankly after two exhaustive threads on this topic, I am leaning towards them actually being Yorkshire Terriers, but they are off coloured and off standard as it exists today. Will the club change their standard? I very much doubt it in my lifetime, and I hope to live another 30 years of so.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I wasn't suggesting it, I really meant it, to those who disapprove of her. My comment was addressing the imperative generalizations that were posted. I said "even those who disapprove of her" (meaning her, and/or the partis -- of which, she is one). I know for a fact that people here *do* disapprove of her, specifically, bc I've read the specific comments that were about her directly. It may not be on the open forum, but they've been shared with me. And btw, I don't include you in what I'm saying here...you and I have PMd about this privately, and it has always been an extremely positive exchange .



I can't really believe you just said that, but okay . I'm 'playing a card'? I meant what I said, and believe me - I don't consider it a game or a 'card' that I like to throw down, when it suits my whimsy. If you do genuinely feel I'm playing some sort of card, then I respect your feelings - as I won't disrespect you by implying your feelings are somehow wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When someone calls parti owners "SUCKERS", I'm confident and peaceful in expressing [I]my opinion regarding that statement.[/I]

As in all cases, opinions about these kinds of subjects are welcome here at YT as they add to a lively and educational discussion.

Anyone is welcome to disapprove of partis, Biewers, labs, morkies, shorkies, dorkies, yorkies, lemurs, whatever. However, imperative generalizations like the one I was addressing don't often lend themselves to a discussion, *in my opinion* .

Enjoy the discussion!

NO ONE CALLED PARTI-OWNERS SUCKERS!

I am sorry if those really are your feelings and they are hurt. I can't see that anyone insulted your dog or you. You didn't pay over $6,000 for your dog did you? That was what someone's "sucker born every minute" comment referred to -- not just buying a parti but paying HUGE SUMS OF MONEY for them. I think it is ridiculous for some of the standard yorkie breeders to ask that sort of money for theirs too!

Maybe you don't see it as "playing a card," but it just seems like everytime we have a discussion about breeding off-standard dogs (of any standard -- size, shape, color) someone tries to insinuate -- or as you said in your case you actually meant it -- that those who believe the breeding of off-standard dogs is wrong, somehow have something against the offspring themselves! Nothing could be further from the truth. Many who are against the breeding of mixes/off-colors/out of standard sizes ect. actually have a dog in one of those categories that they love very much but NEVER intend to purposely breed for. Like I mentioned before -- I loved my curly haired yorkie. She was a great pet, sweet and lovable. But she was not to standard and I had her spayed. I believe that is what all non-standard dog owners should do. It is not my say what they do with their dogs, though, and many choose not to spay & neuter the dogs that do not meet color, size, structure, color placement, or even temperment. They just don't care if they pass on the off-standard traits to future generations. I can speak up about my opinion, but they will still do what they want. When they do, I will have NOTHING against the dogs themselves.

To reiterate -- the "sucker born every minute" comment was NOT about someone buying a parti -- it was about paying HUGE sums of money (the figure of $6,000 was mentioned) for them. It just seems like people want to pick out specific little lines, twist them and make them into some insult that was not meant. This is a tough enough subject to discuss as it is. I think personalizing and twisting comments into saying something never meant makes it EVEN HARDER. Just asking for a little temperance.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

I will answer and my view point is from one who is not in favor of the parti color movement.
How they ever showed up in the breed is a question that can never be answered. But the fact is that they're here and people are breeding them because they want to be first, to try to develop something new. There are white german shepherds, parti color poodles, white boxers and schnauzers, etc. and all are put in the category of mismarks and are not desired in the breed. That's how most feel about parti colored yorkies. They cost so much because there truly is a "sucker born every minute". They cannot be shown in AKC conformation shows. The parti color yorkie and off color yorkie is a DQ in this breed.

You may wish to review the above.

Originally Posted by FlDebra

NO ONE CALLED PARTI-OWNERS SUCKERS!

I am sorry if those really are your feelings and they are hurt. I can't see that anyone insulted your dog or you. You didn't pay over $6,000 for your dog did you? That was what someone's "sucker born every minute" comment referred to -- not just buying a parti but paying HUGE SUMS OF MONEY for them. I think it is ridiculous for some of the standard yorkie breeders to ask that sort of money for theirs too!

Maybe you don't see it as "playing a card," but it just seems like everytime we have a discussion about breeding off-standard dogs (of any standard -- size, shape, color) someone tries to insinuate -- or as you said in your case you actually meant it -- that those who believe the breeding of off-standard dogs is wrong, somehow have something against the offspring themselves! Nothing could be further from the truth. Many who are against the breeding of mixes/off-colors/out of standard sizes ect. actually have a dog in one of those categories that they love very much but NEVER intend to purposely breed for. Like I mentioned before -- I loved my curly haired yorkie. She was a great pet, sweet and lovable. But she was not to standard and I had her spayed. I believe that is what all non-standard dog owners should do. It is not my say what they do with their dogs, though, and many choose not to spay & neuter the dogs that do not meet color, size, structure, color placement, or even temperment. They just don't care if they pass on the off-standard traits to future generations. I can speak up about my opinion, but they will still do what they want. When they do, I will have NOTHING against the dogs themselves.

To reiterate -- the "sucker born every minute" comment was NOT about someone buying a parti -- it was about paying HUGE sums of money (the figure of $6,000 was mentioned) for them. It just seems like people want to pick out specific little lines, twist them and make them into some insult that was not meant. This is a tough enough subject to discuss as it is. I think personalizing and twisting comments into saying something never meant makes it EVEN HARDER. Just asking for a little temperance.

I think Ann has shown a great deal of temperance. The statement is offensive and so are your comments questioning her feelings or opinions. Just as you are entitled to yours...so she is.

Btw, won't be Ann who locks this thread.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

NO ONE CALLED PARTI-OWNERS SUCKERS!

I am sorry if those really are your feelings and they are hurt. I can't see that anyone insulted your dog or you. You didn't pay over $6,000 for your dog did you? That was what someone's "sucker born every minute" comment referred to -- not just buying a parti but paying HUGE SUMS OF MONEY for them. I think it is ridiculous for some of the standard yorkie breeders to ask that sort of money for theirs too!

Maybe you don't see it as "playing a card," but it just seems like everytime we have a discussion about breeding off-standard dogs (of any standard -- size, shape, color) someone tries to insinuate -- or as you said in your case you actually meant it -- that those who believe the breeding of off-standard dogs is wrong, somehow have something against the offspring themselves! Nothing could be further from the truth. Many who are against the breeding of mixes/off-colors/out of standard sizes ect. actually have a dog in one of those categories that they love very much but NEVER intend to purposely breed for. Like I mentioned before -- I loved my curly haired yorkie. She was a great pet, sweet and lovable. But she was not to standard and I had her spayed. I believe that is what all non-standard dog owners should do. It is not my say what they do with their dogs, though, and many choose not to spay & neuter the dogs that do not meet color, size, structure, color placement, or even temperment. They just don't care if they pass on the off-standard traits to future generations. I can speak up about my opinion, but they will still do what they want. When they do, I will have NOTHING against the dogs themselves.

To reiterate -- the "sucker born every minute" comment was NOT about someone buying a parti -- it was about paying HUGE sums of money (the figure of $6,000 was mentioned) for them. It just seems like people want to pick out specific little lines, twist them and make them into some insult that was not meant. This is a tough enough subject to discuss as it is. I think personalizing and twisting comments into saying something never meant makes it EVEN HARDER. Just asking for a little temperance.

Just like alot of you want to pick and choose what Parti color yorkies sell for?
I am so tired of seeing they sell for 5,000.00 to 7,000 when in fact they do not. There are more traditional color yorkies selling for exuberant prices than partis.
Again alot of you want to place blanket statements about the parti's, its either the standard, the price, the health or we are all just bad people for breeding parti's.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I do know that I have extensive knowledge in dog breeding and Raised Champion Brittanys for over 15 years. I know what it takes to breed great healthy dogs, no matter the color. I do Health testing on all my dogs. I do not sell any of my pups for exuberant prices or market them as rare and am quite frankly getting tired of some of you making these kinds of blanket statements.
Just a few pics of my awards and dogs.

[shodanusmc]

There was nothing offensive about it. People love Designer dogs, Morkies, Corkies, etc, does not mean the dog is bad, just the breeder who is not breeding for the betterment of anything, only to make a Buck. THe Parti is not recognized in conformation as it is not the standard and many breeders are/were selling them, or asking $5000 and up for them to those too clueless to know that they could not be shown and are not the standard. That is a fact, not an opinion. I notice that only a few Parti Breeders are getting emotional here. No one has said anything about Ann or her Dog. I believe it is safe to assume that most here love all Animals including Dogs. Up until recently the Cane Corso was not recognized by the AKC.....at all. Was not when I bought mine, but I loved the dog, and did not pay $6000 and up. Does not matter as I am not a show person, but the breeders I investigated bred for the betterment and the standard as it was written at the time. There is no PARTI Corso as the white would be a disqualifier. Some of you have nothing better to do than to jump on the true breeders to standard.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Just like alot of you want to pick and choose what Parti color yorkies sell for?
I am so tired of seeing they sell for 5,000.00 to 7,000 when in fact they do not. There are more traditional color yorkies selling for exuberant prices than partis.
Again alot of you want to place blanket statements about the parti's, its either the standard, the price, the health or we are all just bad people for breeding parti's.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I do know that I have extensive knowledge in dog breeding and Raised Champion Brittanys for over 15 years. I know what it takes to breed great healthy dogs, no matter the color. I do Health testing on all my dogs. I do not sell any of my pups for exuberant prices or market them as rare and am quite frankly getting tired of some of you making these kinds of blanket statements.
Just a few pics of my awards and dogs.

Then it is great to see people waking up and refusing to pay the $5-7000 as before. Still selling a dog that is not bred to the Yorkie Standard, regardless of what you call it. All you are doing is watering down destroying the breed.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

Then it is great to see people waking up and refusing to pay the $5-7000 as before. Still selling a dog that is not bred to the Yorkie Standard, regardless of what you call it. All you are doing is watering down destroying the breed.

As they say, everyone has one........an opinion.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

As they say, everyone has one........an opinion.

Yes, quite evident .....as they say

[gemy]

To:steve

That is a rather broad brush you paint with. I love the Yorkie standard steel blue and tan, in fact I own one, and show him. But I wouldn't say that all Parti Breeders are destroying the breed. There is room for passion, and more than one point of view. New breeds do get created. These Parti Breeders can be responsible if they do all health tests, and continue to improve their lines. If they breed responsibility, and do show their dogs where they can, to try to get their breeding stock evaluated.

The Parti Breeders face an uphill battle with the YTCA, that for certain is true.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by gemy

That is a rather broad brush you paint with. I love the Yorkie standard steel blue and tan, in fact I own one, and show him. But I wouldn't say that all Parti Breeders are destroying the breed. There is room for passion, and more than one point of view. New breeds do get created. These Parti Breeders can be responsible if they do all health tests, and continue to improve their lines. If they breed responsibility, and do show their dogs where they can, to try to get their breeding stock evaluated.

The Parti Breeders face an uphill battle with the YTCA, that for certain is true.

If you are refering to me, I prefer to think of a roller over a brush. No amount of responsibility will make up for not breeding to the Standard.

This battle will go on forever, which is good. The Parti should not be recognized in the ring, ever. I am sure they are terrific little dogs and I would take one if I found one in a shelter. In my younger days it would not even bother me, as I loved and had mutts. Now, I do not want to see any breed watered down for money. If it were not about the money, there would be no discussion.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by gemy

That is a rather broad brush you paint with. I love the Yorkie standard steel blue and tan, in fact I own one, and show him. But I wouldn't say that all Parti Breeders are destroying the breed. There is room for passion, and more than one point of view. New breeds do get created. These Parti Breeders can be responsible if they do all health tests, and continue to improve their lines. If they breed responsibility, and do show their dogs where they can, to try to get their breeding stock evaluated.

The Parti Breeders face an uphill battle with the YTCA, that for certain is true.

New breeds do get created. And there would not be this controversy if the parti breeders wanted to start a new breed with the parti colors. But the yorkshire terrier is a blue and tan dog. Period. Whether the parti color came into the breed through an accidental breeding in the Streamglen Kennel in England or because of the breeds that were used to get the present day yorkie, the white spots any place but on the chest were not intended to be on the yorkie. I have a copy of the breed standard from the Kennel Club of England written in the late 1800's. There were no parti colors allowed back then. "If" any were born with them those dogs that had white patches must have been eliminated from the breeding programs of the early breeders as they should have been eliminated from breeding programs of todays yorkshire terrier breeders. These dogs are mismarks. Cute...sure but not what this breed was recognized by the Kennel Club of England and AKC to be. So instead of making this a crusade why not establish a new breed, call it something else than yorkshire terrier, because they're not true yorkshire terriers, and become recognized by AKC?

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

New breeds do get created. And there would not be this controversy if the parti breeders wanted to start a new breed with the parti colors. But the yorkshire terrier is a blue and tan dog. Period. Whether the parti color came into the breed through an accidental breeding in the Streamglen Kennel in England or because of the breeds that were used to get the present day yorkie, the white spots any place but on the chest were not intended to be on the yorkie. I have a copy of the breed standard from the Kennel Club of England written in the late 1800's. There were no parti colors allowed back then. "If" any were born with them those dogs that had white patches must have been eliminated from the breeding programs of the early breeders as they should have been eliminated from breeding programs of todays yorkshire terrier breeders. These dogs are mismarks. Cute...sure but not what this breed was recognized by the Kennel Club of England and AKC to be. So instead of making this a crusade why not establish a new breed, call it something else than yorkshire terrier, because they're not true yorkshire terriers, and become recognized by AKC?

Just curious, what is a "true" Yorkshire Terrier? in your opinion of course

[gemy]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

If you are refering to me, I prefer to think of a roller over a brush. No amount of responsibility will make up for not breeding to the Standard.

This battle will go on forever, which is good. The Parti should not be recognized in the ring, ever. I am sure they are terrific little dogs and I would take one if I found one in a shelter. In my younger days it would not even bother me, as I loved and had mutts. Now, I do not want to see any breed watered down for money. If it were not about the money, there would be no discussion.

Yes I was referring to you. The dilution of the Yorkie breed is going on, in a much more intense, and devastating way with all the bybers, and puppy mills, who supposedly breed Standard Yorkies. And they do it for the money! the money to be had from one of the most popular breeds.

Your Cane Corso didn't get recognized by AKC until what 2years ago? Does that mean your breeder was breeding for the money because this breed wasn't recognized yet? My breed wasn't recognized in AKC until 2007, does that mean the few breeders here in North America were doing it for the money??? Or was it for the love of these unique breeds?

I do not support your opinion that ALL Parti breeders are in it for the money. As I said before there is much room for passion, and belief, and a willingness to buck the "standard quo", to breed to their passion, with their intellect, their knowledge, and yes take the knocks along the way.

For me personally, I don't know if the Partis should be recognized or not. I just know that the road will be a long haul for those passionate breeders.