Shipping a new puppy? Please Help!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

Hard to fathom these days, but not all use the marketing 'ploy' of a 'website'. Overall, YT members give a lot of good information to potential buyers but I'd have to say this is not one of them. It's foolishness to generalize.
Unless someone knows a breeder personally or have personally visited their breeding facilities no one should comment negatively about how someone "markets" their dogs -- all methods are forms of marketing, even "word of mouth" ... a breeder manages to convince someone their pups are the best (be they the best or not) and that person "spreads the word" --- that's marketing. To say "breeders who mention major lines usually have gotten the line via the backdoor" is one of the most inaccurate generalization I've ever heard, especially making statements like that worded "as a fact" is wrong and misleading to people out there trying to purchase a puppy, not to mention the only thing that should be said is for the person to thoroughly check out the breeder, puppy, & facilities; the method of marketing is the least of their concerns. (again one would have to have first hand, personal knowledge about a breeder and their dogs before saying such generalizations as without that first hand knowledge its just an assumption which is not worth much)
I, for one, as a buyer, would want to know the lines, as there are lines I'd like to avoid.
But all that is my opinion but I don't know too many people who would believe a statement without the person making the statement being able to also state they know the information to be accurate about this one particular case (breeder) because they've have personal contact with that person.
I believe its important to stick to the facts as every breeder here is just one person's assumption away from being spoken negatively about. It's a line that should be treaded carefully.
~Kendra

My statement was addressing websites, and advertising on the web. I personally see nothing wrong with having a website, however, what is said on these websites, is very telling of the breeder. I'm only trying to help educate people like the OP. Some breeders are only breeding to sell dogs, others are breeding to improve and preserve the breed. I hope puppy buyers will avoid the first and support the second, and learn how to tell the difference. There are clues. I would think that a person who knows enough about the "lines" would also know enough on how to read a pedigree, and this can give you solid information. I see nothing wrong with a puppy buyer asking a breeder about the lines.

[FlDebra]

I think some may not understand the distinction being made to help puppy buyers make a choice in breeders.

A good breeder will tell you if their dog is champion-sired, champion grand-sired, etc. they will not vaguely mention "champion bloodlines."

Poor breeders like to draw you in saying they have "champion bloodlines." In this area you see it all the time! Almost any yorkie could be said to have champion bloodlines because somewhere, someplace, at some time in history, there probably was a champion in the family tree -- it just won't show up on an AKC pedigree. I have called on some of these champion bloodline pups in my area. When pressed on the phone, they admit the champion is pretty far down and not on any 3-generation pedigree. So only reason to say "champion bloodlines" is that there is no champion in the immediate relatives.

As for the major-line name dropping. I am glad to be apprised of this problem. We don't see that much in my area (have to admit most of us down this way would not recognize the major lines -- I never knew them until coming to YT). But I am glad to know that just because one of the names I do know is mentioned in an ad, I should not take that to the bank. I should dig deeper. Just like with the "champion bloodline" I need to ask more questions.

I am grateful for the information passed to help novice buyers. No one is saying any particular seller is bad, just that there are some things that should key more questions. Don't get taken in by vague mentions of what seem to be quality traits. Get specifics. If you are dealing with a quality breeder, they will probably have already provided specifics. I know the breeder I chose had the dam & sire on premises, with the histories (both pedigree and health) of grandparents and other pups ready for me. She showed me pictures of several dogs in the line, other pups as adults, and plenty of AKC pedigrees for me to look at. I did not have to ask much. But they are not all like that.

Thanks to those sharing information to help us be more selective!

[shodanusmc]

There are breeders here that I would have no aualms about getting a pup from, site unseen. You just develop a level of trust over time. I would not just orfer one from a stranger and say, go ahead, ship it. Caveat Emptor.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think some may not understand the distinction being made to help puppy buyers make a choice in breeders.

A good breeder will tell you if their dog is champion-sired, champion grand-sired, etc. they will not vaguely mention "champion bloodlines."

Poor breeders like to draw you in saying they have "champion bloodlines." In this area you see it all the time! Almost any yorkie could be said to have champion bloodlines because somewhere, someplace, at some time in history, there probably was a champion in the family tree -- it just won't show up on an AKC pedigree. I have called on some of these champion bloodline pups in my area. When pressed on the phone, they admit the champion is pretty far down and not on any 3-generation pedigree. So only reason to say "champion bloodlines" is that there is no champion in the immediate relatives.

As for the major-line name dropping. I am glad to be apprised of this problem. We don't see that much in my area (have to admit most of us down this way would not recognize the major lines -- I never knew them until coming to YT). But I am glad to know that just because one of the names I do know is mentioned in an ad, I should not take that to the bank. I should dig deeper. Just like with the "champion bloodline" I need to ask more questions.

I am grateful for the information passed to help novice buyers. No one is saying any particular seller is bad, just that there are some things that should key more questions. Don't get taken in by vague mentions of what seem to be quality traits. Get specifics. If you are dealing with a quality breeder, they will probably have already provided specifics. I know the breeder I chose had the dam & sire on premises, with the histories (both pedigree and health) of grandparents and other pups ready for me. She showed me pictures of several dogs in the line, other pups as adults, and plenty of AKC pedigrees for me to look at. I did not have to ask much. But they are not all like that.

Thanks to those sharing information to help us be more selective!

I will say not all puppy buyers are concerned about Champions, they just want a healthy happy dog.

I get leary when I get calls from people wanting a pup and immediately ask about my lines and pedigree. I've also been approached by breeders knowing that I have certain blood lines and want them, if this occurs I usually stipulate that they will also have contact the owners of those bloodlines and gain their permission to buy the pup. Not that I place a pup without a spay/nueter contract, but there are at times those that are persistent.

[veggienut]

Shipping Sounds like a scam if you ever see anyone shipping~! They want your money but who knows if you will ever get the puppy. If you do, it may not be what you expected in the ad.

Go to this site and most likely you will find a breeder in your state:

Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I will say not all puppy buyers are concerned about Champions, they just want a healthy happy dog.

I get leary when I get calls from people wanting a pup and immediately ask about my lines and pedigree. I've also been approached by breeders knowing that I have certain blood lines and want them, if this occurs I usually stipulate that they will also have contact the owners of those bloodlines and gain their permission to buy the pup. Not that I place a pup without a spay/nueter contract, but there are at times those that are persistent.

Healthy, Happy Dog! That is it in a nutshell for Marge and I.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think some may not understand the distinction being made to help puppy buyers make a choice in breeders.

A good breeder will tell you if their dog is champion-sired, champion grand-sired, etc. they will not vaguely mention "champion bloodlines."

Poor breeders like to draw you in saying they have "champion bloodlines." In this area you see it all the time! Almost any yorkie could be said to have champion bloodlines because somewhere, someplace, at some time in history, there probably was a champion in the family tree -- it just won't show up on an AKC pedigree. I have called on some of these champion bloodline pups in my area. When pressed on the phone, they admit the champion is pretty far down and not on any 3-generation pedigree. So only reason to say "champion bloodlines" is that there is no champion in the immediate relatives.

As for the major-line name dropping. I am glad to be apprised of this problem. We don't see that much in my area (have to admit most of us down this way would not recognize the major lines -- I never knew them until coming to YT). But I am glad to know that just because one of the names I do know is mentioned in an ad, I should not take that to the bank. I should dig deeper. Just like with the "champion bloodline" I need to ask more questions.

I am grateful for the information passed to help novice buyers. No one is saying any particular seller is bad, just that there are some things that should key more questions. Don't get taken in by vague mentions of what seem to be quality traits. Get specifics. If you are dealing with a quality breeder, they will probably have already provided specifics. I know the breeder I chose had the dam & sire on premises, with the histories (both pedigree and health) of grandparents and other pups ready for me. She showed me pictures of several dogs in the line, other pups as adults, and plenty of AKC pedigrees for me to look at. I did not have to ask much. But they are not all like that.

Thanks to those sharing information to help us be more selective!

I guess it's semantics. "champion bloodlines" or "champion-sired"/"champion grand sire" Just seems a little unreasonable for someone to state that someone who uses the term "champion bloodlines" can't be the real deal. Yes, I would agree specifying if the pup has been sired or grand sire would be better, just it's not fair to automatically lump someone who chooses to say "champion bloodlines" as someone who couldn't possibly have dogs with great lines/great potential. So what's the term for champion grand-mothered? My pups are from grandsired champions; great; great, great; great, great, great-grand sired champions as well as on the maternal side Just would seem much easier to say "champion bloodlines" if I was so inclined I would think & if someone wanted more details they could ask.
Not everyone chooses to show their dogs, thus a generation could easily not have a champion in it, for no other reason than the breeder didn't choose to show it, not that it didn't have all the qualities and potential to be a "champion". Again, before one disparages a breeder and their dogs they really need to personally know the breeder.
Semantics: While I agree with the poor breeding practices of those that breed exceptionally tiny Yorkies, but it's also just semantics when people say "teacup" Yorkies --- "teacup" "small" It's just an adjective describing the noun. I think people can be led to get so caught up in the terminology used the important things get lost.
Kendra

[kjcmsw]

I will add "champion" doesn't always mean that much either. Someone recently posted their dog/puppy won some championship but noted their dog was the only one in that category...thus a pot-bellied pig may have gave it a run for their money. Yes, people should ask questions, No, people should not say one disparaging thing about another breeder without first hand knowledge, as what goes around comes around, and Never say someone isn't a good breeder of puppies due to the terminology they choose to use. But I believe in fairness and assuming the best until proven otherwise.
Kendra

[107barney]

I would never buy a puppy from anyone who was willing to ship it to me sight unseen for many reasons.

And, I also would not feel comfortable flying a young puppy home from some other place because you never know what might happen on a flight. One time I got stuck on the tarmac while they fixed my aircraft, another time we were stuck at a gate for 2 hours because were no parking spots available for our plane.... And my best airline experience was when I traveled to the south pacific, and when we finally got home to Providence after a very long flight, we couldn't land because of an icy runway and lack of ground crew to make the runway safe for landing, we did not have enough fuel to circle Boston who could not accommodate us due to ice and delays so we had to go to Philadelphia and were given hotel vouchers... we tossed the vouchers and tried to rent a car, it was closed, so we caught a train, but it was a 35 hour trip door to door.

Imagine if I had a puppy on any of those flights, especially that 35 hour ordeal.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

I guess it's semantics. "champion bloodlines" or "champion-sired"/"champion grand sire" Just seems a little unreasonable for someone to state that someone who uses the term "champion bloodlines" can't be the real deal. Yes, I would agree specifying if the pup has been sired or grand sire would be better, just it's not fair to automatically lump someone who chooses to say "champion bloodlines" as someone who couldn't possibly have dogs with great lines/great potential. So what's the term for champion grand-mothered? My pups are from grandsired champions; great; great, great; great, great, great-grand sired champions as well as on the maternal side Just would seem much easier to say "champion bloodlines" if I was so inclined I would think & if someone wanted more details they could ask.
Not everyone chooses to show their dogs, thus a generation could easily not have a champion in it, for no other reason than the breeder didn't choose to show it, not that it didn't have all the qualities and potential to be a "champion". Again, before one disparages a breeder and their dogs they really need to personally know the breeder.
Semantics: While I agree with the poor breeding practices of those that breed exceptionally tiny Yorkies, but it's also just semantics when people say "teacup" Yorkies --- "teacup" "small" It's just an adjective describing the noun. I think people can be led to get so caught up in the terminology used the important things get lost.
Kendra

I've yet to mention during a course of a conversation with a potential new family that my dogs come from a long line of Champions, or Champion Sired or Champion Dam. My emphasis is always on health, structure and temperament of the pup and working with new family to establish a relationship and provide the pup with the best possible home.

Whether a question of sematics or not, it is eduational information and the more information placed out there for newbies the better.

The term for is Champion Dam; Champion Grand Dam or Champion Great Grand Dam.

As far as the teacup term; it's one that I don't let pass easily. I've witnessed too many people pulled into that too. Yes, even here on YT, there are still members that believe that you pay more for a pup, the smaller it is. And a week doesn't go by that I don't receive calls from potential new pup owners telling me about a breeder that has a teacup and that they understand teacups go for more money.

Education is a person's best ammunition in helping people make knowledgable choices.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I've yet to mention during a course of a conversation with a potential new family that my dogs come from a long line of Champions, or Champion Sired or Champion Dam. My emphasis is always on health, structure and temperament of the pup and working with new family to establish a relationship and provide the pup with the best possible home.

Whether a question of sematics or not, it is eduational information and the more information placed out there for newbies the better.

The term for is Champion Dam; Champion Grand Dam or Champion Great Grand Dam.

As far as the teacup term; it's one that I don't let pass easily. I've witnessed too many people pulled into that too. Yes, even here on YT, there are still members that believe that you pay more for a pup, the smaller it is. And a week doesn't go by that I don't receive calls from potential new pup owners telling me about a breeder that has a teacup and that they understand teacups go for more money.

Education is a person's best ammunition in helping people make knowledgable choices.

I kinda see where this is going. One post will say (essentially) that if a puppy doesn't come from "champion stock" it's not as good as one that doesn't (so new buyers look for that), the next will say the breeder shouldn't mention the bloodlines --- Seems like a person is damned if they do, damned if they don't. My whole point is new buyers should look at the pup they intend to buy and speak with the breeder, not concern themselves so much with all the "marketing wording" because it's really a "toe-may-toe"/ "tah-ma-toe" thing. Depending on one's locale.
Like I said, if someone asks about bloodlines, it just seems "easier" to say "champion bloodlines" and IF they want more details, then one can specify whether the pups are "champion-sired", etc The person's website that the original post discussion was basically accusing the person who stated on their website "CHAMPION BLOODLINES" was only using a "marketing ploy" - how could they - or anyone - know those weren't close relative champion lines without actually meeting the breeder, etc? AND, that it isn't right of anyone to disparage a breeder strictly on their choice of wording on their website. So you're right 'education' is important, as long as it's accurate.
Someone could say, "if champion lines are so important to the quality of a pup, then if you don't mention it, you must not breed quality dogs" --- see where I'm going?
No one can (intelligently) say that a puppy from a breeder is not quality based strictly on a website's brief introductory wording, it's wrong to do so, it is not education, it's misleading...it's just ignorant to make statements about a particular breeder without first hand knowledge.

Until my previous post I never mentioned the details of my pups' lines as I didn't think it was the priority, rather their exceptional good health, temperament, great conformation, and other details is what I also initially choose to talk about, but for those that bloodlines are important, I would initially choose to the words, "champion bloodlines" - the details of those lines?...here's their pedigrees, see for yourself.
The other person's post about the price determines the quality is also wrong. I seriously do want my pups to go to a good and loving home first. I've made the decision to sell them for less to help assure they will be sold while young and will more readily bond to their new owner. It isn't all about the money. I can't keep them all. But now I'm thinking of raising their prices so people don't "learn" from the education from these postings that somehow a pup selling for less than 1500/1000 couldn't possibly be healthy and of high quality. Why shouldn't someone be able to have one of my pups for under a $1000 and still receive a high quality puppy? I don't need to sell them for a high price "just because I could" --
I guess I just want true and accurate "education" out there, not picking other breeders apart when someone doesn't 'personally' know anything about them or their dogs. It's wrong, it's petty, it's so junior-high school. Sorry, when I hear someone say 'their choice of wording means their puppies aren't worth buying' I immediately reject their other "education" because simply put, they are wrong about that, thus possibly wrong about anything else they say. So for those who "truly" want to educate...just speak the truth...the truth they have "first hand" knowledge about. That's all I ask of those who "choose" to "educate".
Kendra

[felicity1008]

Do not ship a puppy!!!You have no idea where they are coming from. You must meet the breeder in person and the parents also. You may hate the puppy's personality when you get it. All my pups had different personalies and i love having a relationship with their new adoptive families. Buy your breeder first then the pup. A caring breeder will ask you LOTS of questions too about your lifestyle. Watch for breeders that do not ask questions. Beware of people that ship, they can not sell locally for some reason or another that they are hiding something or are just plain $ hungry and dont care about meeting the pups new parents and are willing to ship. It is cruel and stressful on the pup. What is something goes wrong??? youll never REALLY know where your pup came from.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

I kinda see where this is going. One post will say (essentially) that if a puppy doesn't come from "champion stock" it's not as good as one that doesn't (so new buyers look for that), the next will say the breeder shouldn't mention the bloodlines --- Seems like a person is damned if they do, damned if they don't. My whole point is new buyers should look at the pup they intend to buy and speak with the breeder, not concern themselves so much with all the "marketing wording" because it's really a "toe-may-toe"/ "tah-ma-toe" thing. Depending on one's locale.
Like I said, if someone asks about bloodlines, it just seems "easier" to say "champion bloodlines" and IF they want more details, then one can specify whether the pups are "champion-sired", etc The person's website that the original post discussion was basically accusing the person who stated on their website "CHAMPION BLOODLINES" was only using a "marketing ploy" - how could they - or anyone - know those weren't close relative champion lines without actually meeting the breeder, etc? AND, that it isn't right of anyone to disparage a breeder strictly on their choice of wording on their website. So you're right 'education' is important, as long as it's accurate.
Someone could say, "if champion lines are so important to the quality of a pup, then if you don't mention it, you must not breed quality dogs" --- see where I'm going?
No one can (intelligently) say that a puppy from a breeder is not quality based strictly on a website's brief introductory wording, it's wrong to do so, it is not education, it's misleading...it's just ignorant to make statements about a particular breeder without first hand knowledge.

Until my previous post I never mentioned the details of my pups' lines as I didn't think it was the priority, rather their exceptional good health, temperament, great conformation, and other details is what I also initially choose to talk about, but for those that bloodlines are important, I would initially choose to the words, "champion bloodlines" - the details of those lines?...here's their pedigrees, see for yourself.
The other person's post about the price determines the quality is also wrong. I seriously do want my pups to go to a good and loving home first. I've made the decision to sell them for less to help assure they will be sold while young and will more readily bond to their new owner. It isn't all about the money. I can't keep them all. But now I'm thinking of raising their prices so people don't "learn" from the education from these postings that somehow a pup selling for less than 1500/1000 couldn't possibly be healthy and of high quality. Why shouldn't someone be able to have one of my pups for under a $1000 and still receive a high quality puppy? I don't need to sell them for a high price "just because I could" --
I guess I just want true and accurate "education" out there, not picking other breeders apart when someone doesn't 'personally' know anything about them or their dogs. It's wrong, it's petty, it's so junior-high school. Sorry, when I hear someone say 'their choice of wording means their puppies aren't worth buying' I immediately reject their other "education" because simply put, they are wrong about that, thus possibly wrong about anything else they say. So for those who "truly" want to educate...just speak the truth...the truth they have "first hand" knowledge about. That's all I ask of those who "choose" to "educate".
Kendra

Well if we're speaking about truths, what I bolded is one of the biggest lies I have ever heard of from unscrupulous breeder when I did my looking around. Age doesn't matter to the bonding process. (No I'm not calling anyone in this thread unscrupulous, it's just an observation I have made and am generalizing) My dog was a year old when he came home, it didn't make our bond any less. Katie, my friends foster pup, was well over 4 years old and bonded quickly to her foster family. Rex, a pup that I helped pull from a nasty shelter is estimated to be 6+ years old. He is so happy and bonded to his foster mom; he's just the happiest little thing. I've heard over and over from people posting on YT that "younger is better" and that's why they have a 6 week old-10 week old pup. "the breeder insisted" they'll say, or my favorite "I know my lines and my pups are ready to go at 6 weeks." Needless to say, I ran away from that breeder.

I hear you about damned if you do, damned if you don't. However, I as a pet owner would not initially care to hear or have the word "Champion" flashed at me on a website or initial conversation. The #1 rule that most new pet owners ignore, and really it should be the first thing on their minds, is buy your breeder first and then the puppy. It really should be a process. Get to know the breeder, learn how well they're willing to accept you into their family (really, who else would you be ok hearing from at 2 in the morning, assuming you call them when there is something wrong with the puppy), then learn about their breeding program, and finally start looking at puppies. I think this is the only way for a new puppy owner to have piece of mind that they really are getting a dog from a good place and their chances at a happy, healthy, well socialized or well balanced dog greatly increases. I understand that no breeding program is perfect or free of fault. Sometimes things happen and that openness to accept it goes both ways. A breeder shouldn't be defensive if their "perfect lines" suddenly turn up LS/LP or who knows what else; and a new pet owner shouldn't start placing blame either. They, in cases like those, should be working together to get that pup healthy again.

Maybe I'm creating an ideal situation in my head that doesn't exist, but really that's what we all should be striving for as lovers of this great breed. We should all be doing our part to continue to make the Yorkshire Terrier a great happy breed, both breeders and pet owners alike.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

I kinda see where this is going. One post will say (essentially) that if a puppy doesn't come from "champion stock" it's not as good as one that doesn't (so new buyers look for that), the next will say the breeder shouldn't mention the bloodlines --- Seems like a person is damned if they do, damned if they don't. My whole point is new buyers should look at the pup they intend to buy and speak with the breeder, not concern themselves so much with all the "marketing wording" because it's really a "toe-may-toe"/ "tah-ma-toe" thing. Depending on one's locale.
Like I said, if someone asks about bloodlines, it just seems "easier" to say "champion bloodlines" and IF they want more details, then one can specify whether the pups are "champion-sired", etc The person's website that the original post discussion was basically accusing the person who stated on their website "CHAMPION BLOODLINES" was only using a "marketing ploy" - how could they - or anyone - know those weren't close relative champion lines without actually meeting the breeder, etc? AND, that it isn't right of anyone to disparage a breeder strictly on their choice of wording on their website. So you're right 'education' is important, as long as it's accurate.
Someone could say, "if champion lines are so important to the quality of a pup, then if you don't mention it, you must not breed quality dogs" --- see where I'm going?
No one can (intelligently) say that a puppy from a breeder is not quality based strictly on a website's brief introductory wording, it's wrong to do so, it is not education, it's misleading...it's just ignorant to make statements about a particular breeder without first hand knowledge.

Until my previous post I never mentioned the details of my pups' lines as I didn't think it was the priority, rather their exceptional good health, temperament, great conformation, and other details is what I also initially choose to talk about, but for those that bloodlines are important, I would initially choose to the words, "champion bloodlines" - the details of those lines?...here's their pedigrees, see for yourself.
The other person's post about the price determines the quality is also wrong. I seriously do want my pups to go to a good and loving home first. I've made the decision to sell them for less to help assure they will be sold while young and will more readily bond to their new owner. It isn't all about the money. I can't keep them all. But now I'm thinking of raising their prices so people don't "learn" from the education from these postings that somehow a pup selling for less than 1500/1000 couldn't possibly be healthy and of high quality. Why shouldn't someone be able to have one of my pups for under a $1000 and still receive a high quality puppy? I don't need to sell them for a high price "just because I could" --
I guess I just want true and accurate "education" out there, not picking other breeders apart when someone doesn't 'personally' know anything about them or their dogs. It's wrong, it's petty, it's so junior-high school. Sorry, when I hear someone say 'their choice of wording means their puppies aren't worth buying' I immediately reject their other "education" because simply put, they are wrong about that, thus possibly wrong about anything else they say. So for those who "truly" want to educate...just speak the truth...the truth they have "first hand" knowledge about. That's all I ask of those who "choose" to "educate".
Kendra

No, I think you missed the whole point. This post has nothing to do with you or nowhere meant to be of a personal nature. But, it appears that somewhere along the line that it what you have concieved it to be. No one mentioned you or what you do, you yourself have done that. Until you brought it up on this thread I wasn't aware you were a breeder.

The whole thread is based on attempting to educate the OP and other newbies like the OP.

Every bit of information, no matter how small, is meant to educate those that choose to be educated.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

I will add "champion" doesn't always mean that much either. Someone recently posted their dog/puppy won some championship but noted their dog was the only one in that category...thus a pot-bellied pig may have gave it a run for their money. Yes, people should ask questions, No, people should not say one disparaging thing about another breeder without first hand knowledge, as what goes around comes around, and Never say someone isn't a good breeder of puppies due to the terminology they choose to use. But I believe in fairness and assuming the best until proven otherwise.
Kendra

You seemed to be confused about a few things, a dog does not win his championship by wining one show. If he's the only dog in a show, he doesn't win ANY points that go towards a championship. Also according to your next post, you seem to think we are saying that we think a puppy buyer should buy a dog that comes from champion stock, this is incorrect, I've been trying to say that a puppy buyer should look at the breeder and their breeding program, and what their goals are in breeding. If a breeder doesn't know what they are doing, breeding two champions won't even produce a good of an example of the breed, it takes more than champions to produce good examples, you also have to understand genetics and how to correct problems. Breeders who use lots of marketing terms are in the business of selling dogs. Good breeders could care less if you buy one their dogs, they aren't in the business of selling dogs.

Originally Posted by kjcmsw

I kinda see where this is going. One post will say (essentially) that if a puppy doesn't come from "champion stock" it's not as good as one that doesn't (so new buyers look for that), the next will say the breeder shouldn't mention the bloodlines --- Seems like a person is damned if they do, damned if they don't. My whole point is new buyers should look at the pup they intend to buy and speak with the breeder, not concern themselves so much with all the "marketing wording" because it's really a "toe-may-toe"/ "tah-ma-toe" thing. Depending on one's locale.
Like I said, if someone asks about bloodlines, it just seems "easier" to say "champion bloodlines" and IF they want more details, then one can specify whether the pups are "champion-sired", etc The person's website that the original post discussion was basically accusing the person who stated on their website "CHAMPION BLOODLINES" was only using a "marketing ploy" - how could they - or anyone - know those weren't close relative champion lines without actually meeting the breeder, etc? AND, that it isn't right of anyone to disparage a breeder strictly on their choice of wording on their website. So you're right 'education' is important, as long as it's accurate.
Someone could say, "if champion lines are so important to the quality of a pup, then if you don't mention it, you must not breed quality dogs" --- see where I'm going?
No one can (intelligently) say that a puppy from a breeder is not quality based strictly on a website's brief introductory wording, it's wrong to do so, it is not education, it's misleading...it's just ignorant to make statements about a particular breeder without first hand knowledge.

Until my previous post I never mentioned the details of my pups' lines as I didn't think it was the priority, rather their exceptional good health, temperament, great conformation, and other details is what I also initially choose to talk about, but for those that bloodlines are important, I would initially choose to the words, "champion bloodlines" - the details of those lines?...here's their pedigrees, see for yourself.
The other person's post about the price determines the quality is also wrong. I seriously do want my pups to go to a good and loving home first. I've made the decision to sell them for less to help assure they will be sold while young and will more readily bond to their new owner. It isn't all about the money. I can't keep them all. But now I'm thinking of raising their prices so people don't "learn" from the education from these postings that somehow a pup selling for less than 1500/1000 couldn't possibly be healthy and of high quality. Why shouldn't someone be able to have one of my pups for under a $1000 and still receive a high quality puppy? I don't need to sell them for a high price "just because I could" --
I guess I just want true and accurate "education" out there, not picking other breeders apart when someone doesn't 'personally' know anything about them or their dogs. It's wrong, it's petty, it's so junior-high school. Sorry, when I hear someone say 'their choice of wording means their puppies aren't worth buying' I immediately reject their other "education" because simply put, they are wrong about that, thus possibly wrong about anything else they say. So for those who "truly" want to educate...just speak the truth...the truth they have "first hand" knowledge about. That's all I ask of those who "choose" to "educate".
Kendra