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11-09-2010, 06:36 PM | #1 |
threadkillin' 6 pack Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 1,242
| Need suggestions Okay, I need suggestions, but instead of saying, '''don't be mean''' or '''don't give me advice I don't want to hear'''..(LOL you all know what I'm talking about). Here is my ground rule and why. I need potty training help..pad training to be exact. This request is for one of the new rescues. Bridget is fine. Brie is a problem. And the ground rule?? drum roll...... crate training is off the table. no way no how. These girls have spent so much of their lives in crates as breeder that there is no way I'm putting her in a crate, for any reason. Not even to potty train. If it cannot be accomplished without utilizing a crate then it cannot be done. I'll shave down her hiney and use a diaper. But I will not traumatize her further by putting her in a crate. These two girls have no idea what a toy is. Neither one of them will even touch a toy. I have a small square xpen in the living room and when I put Bridget in there she does her business real quick. Brie immediately starts pacing. It is so sad. My DH has stated that at this point he would be happier to see Brie pick up a toy rather than potty where she should. We're more concerned about their pyschological well being than the condition of our carpet, carpet can be replaced. So, bring on the suggestions. Yes, I do walk around, following her like a shadow, but I swear I turn for 2 seconds..she is fast. I pick her up mid stream and say a firm NO, put her on the pad and she is done. That's it. Can't get her to start again. I blot and put the wet paper on the pad. She uses the pad 30% of the time. HELP!
__________________ lorelei, wife to gerry , momma to bear , baxter ,baby and bug |
Welcome Guest! | |
11-09-2010, 06:44 PM | #2 |
Crazy about Kacee! Donating Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kansas
Posts: 21,173
| Maybe some of the regular rescue mommies will chime in. I would be like you. I couldn't put them in a crate, either.
__________________ Karen Kacee Muffin 1991-2005 Rest in Peace My Little Angel |
11-09-2010, 07:06 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York
Posts: 3,896
| I don't blame you for not wanting to put them in a crate. I wouldn't either. Maybe it is just going to take time to get up to 100% Pee paper success. I feel terrible that they don't play with the toys. Poor babies probably didn't have toys. Give them hugs from us. Sorry I can't be of more help. |
11-09-2010, 07:13 PM | #4 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 555
| Aw. I understand about the crate I wouldn't put them in there either! If she is using it 30% of time are you giving her treats when she goes where you want her to? I know mine love treats after they potty in the right spot. I hope she gets the hang of it real quick but it will probably take time. Also, maybe try a toy where they have to work to get a treat out of it... Cant go wrong with a treat . I wish you the best of luck with your babies!! |
11-09-2010, 07:20 PM | #5 |
Phantom Queen Morrigan Donating Member | I know you asked for pad training help but have you tried taking her outside? maybe she would prefer going out there? If that's not an option what about putting her in a gated small room with LOTS of pads all over the floor so she doesn't have a choice but to potty on the pad. this way she cannot fail. Then you can slowly start removing a pad at a time till she is consistently going on one or two pads.
__________________ Kellie and Morgan |
11-09-2010, 08:31 PM | #6 | |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posts: 12,693
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__________________ Littlest JakJak We miss you Kaji | |
11-09-2010, 09:16 PM | #7 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Westfield, Indiana, USA
Posts: 461
| Exactly my question.....I can totally relate to the crate, but what about the xpen? Are you comfortable with that? We don't crate any of our rescues either.
__________________ YorkieZoo's Babies!-Click here! Not deserving of my beautiful wife Stephanie Daddy to: Houston Piper Meadow Zander Jack Phoebe Willow and always a foster or two! |
11-09-2010, 09:59 PM | #8 |
threadkillin' 6 pack Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 1,242
| I put her in the xpen and she just paces like a caged lion and whines. She hates it. Whenever she does go where she should we have a huge party... She is not treat motivated. Will not touch treats. I've tried outside and she doesn't get that either, thank god. (I don't really want her to go outside, I'm selfish and hate cold weather).. She is not toy or treat motivated. Puts us at a real disadvantage. Bridget is the same way with the toys and treats, they look at them as some sort of foreign objects, and turn their heads. When they do right, it is pick them up, praise, snuggles, kisses, praise, on and on. When they do bad, we just ignore, blot put the wet paper where they should have gone and move on. I'll try the padded room...LOLOLOLOL, but something tells me that any cutting her access off from everyone else is going to be a stress issue. The thought of being the source of any pain at all to these girls just breaks my heart. Like I said, I'll shave and diaper her before I let her go. Letting her go is not an option. She is here to stay. We'll work around it, it just would be nice to come up with a solution...thank you for the input. I'll give some of the ideas a try. maybe chicken in a kong... if I can find a quiet time away from the rest of the pack, maybe I could interest her in that... hmm, her in a padded room with a chicken packed kong...
__________________ lorelei, wife to gerry , momma to bear , baxter ,baby and bug |
11-09-2010, 10:09 PM | #9 |
threadkillin' 6 pack Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 1,242
| I forgot, in addition to the small xpen in the living room, we do have the large one with the beds on one side the play area in the middle and the pee pads on the other side, you know the standard set up. When in that she will use the correct side. But she is miserable and cries the whole time she is in there. Wants out to be with the others. Mind you, she hasn't bonded with the others, she just doesn't want to be separate. I'll put Bridget and Brie both in there together and she is still sad and upset. Like I said, at this point in time, I really want her potty trained but her psychological well being is equally if not more important..so, I'd rather not utilize that option. I'd rather the carpet be damaged than to further damage her. I know that sounds crazy....
__________________ lorelei, wife to gerry , momma to bear , baxter ,baby and bug |
11-09-2010, 10:34 PM | #10 |
I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 18,865
| Helloooo! Heard you about her pacing in an X Pen, that's got to be hard to watch. Okay, now for the down and dirty: Are you using disposable peepads or washables? Switch up. My girls do better with the washables. Scenting the pads is good, but maybe scent it with another dog's urine... Does she tend to use the same areas or just random anywhere? If she has specific spots she seems to gravitate to, put pads in those areas. I'm guessing not though. No solution here, except using an entire room as Kalina82 stated in her post. The Kicker: You should never tell a Yorkie 'No' concerning pottying. They are too smart and won't get that you mean 'No, not here'. They take it over the top and interpret 'No' to mean you don't want them to potty, at all, anywhere, ever! This leads to what you described... she waits till you don't see her and then she 'goes'. Accidents are your fault. Know/learn her signals and make it comfortable for her to potty, and reward her and praise her for doing it right. She will eventually 'get it'. Be consistant. You may be asking 'Well then, how do I handle accidents?" You totally ignore them as they happen (except for the first 3-4 when you're teaching the command word association), then afterwards you clean them up using an enzymatic cleaner. No mumbling or muttering under your breath, no sideways glares at the dog. You say nothing to her, nada, zilch, nothing. No moaning either! The Fix: What is her favorite treat? Have alot of it ready, in hand. Then sit back and watch her. One of mine is hysterical. She'll be eating, then, all of a sudden she has to go. No, I mean she really has to go. (I can really relate to that! lol) It comes on her so fast, she doesn't have time to make it to the door. At least now she heads toward the door so that's a big plus, and she will use peepads most of the time, especially when I remember to put one down! Anyway.... back to you. Watch her and time how long it takes for her to relieve herself after a meal. Being that she goes anywhere at this point, if you catch her going, gently in a whisper tone, say a command, like 'Go Potty' while she's going. You don't want to startle her or interupt her. Then give her a treat and alot of praise. You are not rewarding her choice of spots at this time, you are rewarding the act of peeing in your presence. And you are associating a word with the action. After a few times of her going with you watching, when that time comes after a meal, place her on a pad, and give the command (whichever one you choose to use, but pick one and stick with it.) and have the treat ready. The first time she goes on the pad with you watching, praise her like she's never heard praise before. And give her treats. Toys: My girls like anything that sounds like a puppy. So small squeaky toys are 'in' with them. My older male only likes one toy, and that's the tiny little squeaky Teddybear, and he'll only play with it if I'm there playing with him, preferably on the bed, and hands under the covers.
__________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity |
11-09-2010, 10:44 PM | #11 |
I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 18,865
| Just read your last post.... you have to find something she likes. Does she like chicken (real meat), hamburger or steak? Pastries or doughnuts? Fruits or veggies? Bread? Potatos, tomatos, Cheerios, Cheetos, Gerbers 2nd stage meat baby foods (chicken, turkey) I got mine loving Gerber's Puffs for Toddlers. They come in many flavors and you can feed alot bc nutritionally they are like air. Took them a bit to get used to the texture but they love them now.
__________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity |
11-09-2010, 10:46 PM | #12 |
threadkillin' 6 pack Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 1,242
| I use washables. When I find a spot I completely ignore the action. I'll stop saying no when I catch her in the act. Sounds logical. Everyone uses the same pads, so in addition to adding her scent it has the others. I change them frequently so she has had totally clean, just her own, and multiple scents. Seems no difference in preference. She was adopted for a week before we got her and the previous family returned her for potty issues. I'm wondering if there was some serious punishment going on that is causing her to be furtive. I've never done the muttering, sidelong glances..LOL I fully know that all accidents are completely my fault. I've gone upside my head with numerous rolled up newspapers. Perhaps the first step is to get her to like the treats.... I've got a lot of food for thought.
__________________ lorelei, wife to gerry , momma to bear , baxter ,baby and bug |
11-09-2010, 11:11 PM | #13 |
I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 18,865
| Or, for now, if you can only use praise with her, I wouldn't pick her up,(that removes her from what you are praising her for) but make over her on the floor. And confining her to a room or large area doesn't have to be away from everyone. If you can, just limit her access to other areas/rooms by blocking her access to them. Another thought... use one of your other dogs that is trained to show her what you expect. If one will use pads without the Xpen up... feed them together then place them in the room with the pads together, let her see you praise and reward the one that does it right. Because one of mine runs to the door to go potty, the others have started doing that too, without me training them, other than letting them out after they've eaten. I see it happening more at other times throughout the day, too, so I know they're catching on. Also, if you have one of those steamers for floors, I've found it's the best way to get odors out of the carpet. Also, walking her (if possible) may re-awaken her nose. We don't do cold weather here very well either... or rain, but on nice days they have to re mark the neighborhood! Cuts down on accidents bc they use all their pee outside! Works for a while anyway.... Walking dogs together is really a good way to get them to bond too.
__________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity |
11-09-2010, 11:31 PM | #14 |
threadkillin' 6 pack Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USA
Posts: 1,242
| Or, for now, if you can only use praise with her, I wouldn't pick her up,(that removes her from what you are praising her for) but make over her on the floor. Never even thought about that. You've given me some great ideas. Now, off to implement. Tomorrow, hmmm today, is a new day! Thanks!
__________________ lorelei, wife to gerry , momma to bear , baxter ,baby and bug |
11-10-2010, 12:29 AM | #15 |
YT Addict Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee
Posts: 283
| I was also going to ask if you had tried a really high value treat: Like real meat. (Would any dog refuse that?!) Maybe try the treating thing with her, but only use the high value treat for potty training. If she really values the treat and that is the only time she gets it, she may make the connection quickly and improve. I always tell Snickers, "Go potty, I'll give you treats" and as soon as he's gone outside, I say, "Good boy, you get a treat" and give him one as soon as he's done. He knows the words "potty" and "treat" so I think has done better with going outside and not inside on the carpet, because he always gets a reward for it now. Maybe you could even try clicker training with it. When she does the right thing, clicking and treating would re-enforce the positive behavior even more. I think I would definitely try the clicker. I find Snickers learns a lot faster with it. Lastly, maybe, if possible, you could consider training her to go outside. That way you can immediately take her out after eating and drinking and playing (if she does). Maybe for the first while it will just have to be a whole lot. Snickers still won't give me any signal (such as going to the door or barking) when he needs to go out. The best chance for success is just to make sure he gets out at least every couple hours and not allow him the opportunity to make a mistake. |
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