Trainer says give 2nd Yorkie back to breeder - Page 5 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

BayAreaDesigner · 09-11-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxwellHouse

I didn't have any collars at all so he pulled her down the street using the harness I had on her, after I was explaining that you shouldn't use collars then he used the loop at the other end of the leash to put around her neck and dragged her a little further with that. That's when he said he never heard of any problems with collapsing tracheas. I was sort of in shock and then he stopped. We were getting ready to deck him if he hadn't. I think he was pretty sure that he could get her to walk but she didn't. I got the feeling that failure was not in his vocabulary that night.

BayAreaDesigner · 09-11-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyWife313

I agree that guy sounds like an old school big dog "trainer." I've trained dogs, I've worked with trainers, I'm comfortable running a training class. I commend you on being a great Yorkie mommy and trying to do what's best for your little ones.

As far as your questions, you can definitely find all the answers you need on here. IF you can't find them by searching, just start a new thread on it. TRUST ME anything you are going through or will go through, people on here have been there and can help. While we are a group of strangers on a forum, there are also professional breeders, lawyers, doctors, stay at home moms, professional trainers, professional everything, so you can get great advice. We may not be YOUR vet, trainer, breeder, but we can offer help and advice for you to go to YOUR vet or breeder with.

And it is a good idea to spend quality time with each girl separate from the other. I see no harm in letting them sleep together as long as they get along and you trust them, but yes they do need their alone mommy time.That's also a good time for training. Leave one in the crate, take one out, work on building basic foundation skills and teaching the manners you want them to know. Then do the same with the other. When they both have them down pat, you can work on reinforcing these ideas together.

And I agree, Victoria Stilwell is a great positive trainer with some good methods. Most trainers use positive reinforcement these days anyway.
Good luck!

Great advice. I do watch It's Me or the dog and I have been searching thru the multitude of books trying to figure out which ones to get (I have all the yorkie books and magazines already). I am also looking for something that goes a bit more into how animals communicate. I kind of like that level of interaction too. Thanks for your help!

joeyandtanksmom · 09-11-2009, 09:08 PM

I think the guy you hired is nuts. I have two unneutered males (16 months and 10 months), and they are just fine - they play fight of course, but they're never actually angry with each other. I do use collars for them (4 and 5 lbs), but I have worked very hard to train them, and they don't pull on their leashes. I would never use one of the choke chains though! That's just not appropriate for a tiny little yorkie...I could see one on a pit bull, lab, or rottie, but not a dog as small as a yorkie. That's just asking for tracheal collapse. If it seems that your babies are getting along well, there's no reason to think that it won't end up well. Of course there's gonna be a dominant one - that's how dogs are! They are pack animals. I'm sorry, but that just irks me...I would definitely wait to get your babies fixed, also. If they're too small, their bodies don't handle the anesthesia well. If anything, I would probably be more prone to putting it off. Then again, that's just kinda how I am...

For getting them to walk on their leash, what I did was carried a treat. I would put the treat where they could see it, then I would just say stuff like "come on", and act very excited, like it was the most fun thing to do...Eventually they'll catch on. When they follow, give a treat, and try it again! I took little training treats and cut them in 4 pieces, so I wouldn't upset little tummies.

I wish you the best of luck with your puppy training!

LilMissy · 09-11-2009, 10:22 PM

Oh my gosh! I wouldn't have paid him! That trainer gave you the worst advice possible, and probably set your little one back in her training by dragging her down the street like that.

As far as owning 2 females...I've owned different pairs of female dogs for the last 27 yrs. I've never had a problem. I've never owned 2 yorkies, but I don't see how it could be any different from other small breed dogs.

bugsmomma · 09-11-2009, 10:39 PM

I have 4 female dogs, 1 male. 3 of the girls are Yorkies, the other is a Sheltie. We have play fights everyday!! Occasionally I have to step in as the "noise" gets a little much for me. Everyone in my house lives in relative peace! It's like having multiple children~ for the most part I let them work it out but when it gets too hairy, I step in. You will learn the noises as they grow and they will learn from each other how far they can go. I agree with the lady at the vet's that they will be the best of friends!!

BaxtersMommy · 09-11-2009, 10:40 PM

Another thing, I always get my puppies in pairs. Maybe not on the same day, but within weeks of each other. AND they have all done wonderfully. It does take work, but I love that they have each other during the day to play with and they absolutely ADORE one another. The first 2 months they were in separate crates, now they sleep together. They cuddle up & are so cute. Everything this guy says, I disagree with.

BayAreaDesigner · 09-12-2009, 09:21 AM

To develop them individually, I read that they need separate crates so I bought another one last night. I have the wire medium size ones which is what they sleep in within the bigger xpen. I got it so they both have a place to go if they want to get away from each other. I put the younger pup in the new one and left her for about 90 mins so she could get used to it. When I let her out they switched crates (so funny)but did end up sleeping separately. Their crate doors stays open at nite so they can potty in the litter box (I am not training outside elimination exclusively). I have been walking them with another lady in our bldg who has a yorkie and pug but this morning I took the little one out for a walk alone (Lily won't walk on the leash now anyway, so I will walk her alone on our next walk). Since they are in daycare M-F (for now) I am going to rotate ea eve spending alone time w/ea switching off. I have multiple xpens on ea level of my condo (2 levels). I try to feed them separately but they end up eating out of the same bowl.

Ladymom · 09-12-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayAreaDesigner

To develop them individually, I read that they need separate crates so I bought another one last night. I have the wire medium size ones which is what they sleep in within the bigger xpen. I got it so they both have a place to go if they want to get away from each other. I put the younger pup in the new one and left her for about 90 mins so she could get used to it. When I let her out they switched crates (so funny)but did end up sleeping separately. Their crate doors stays open at nite so they can potty in the litter box (I am not training outside elimination exclusively). I have been walking them with another lady in our bldg who has a yorkie and pug but this morning I took the little one out for a walk alone (Lily won't walk on the leash now anyway, so I will walk her alone on our next walk). Since they are in daycare M-F (for now) I am going to rotate ea eve spending alone time w/ea switching off. I have multiple xpens on ea level of my condo (2 levels). I try to feed them separately but they end up eating out of the same bowl.

Sounds like you are doing everything right with your two!

That's the biggest mistake people make when they get two puppies at the same time, not letting them develop individually. It can lead to separation anxiety later on.

Two that are never separated also tend to bond more with one another than their owners.

Sounds like you are up to the challenge of raising two puppies successfully!

jrsygal37 · 09-12-2009, 09:36 AM

I have four females and one male. My oldest Bella is Alpha. She is 5 yrs. old. Noel is 4 yrs. old, Tia is 3 yrs. old, Lilly is 2 years old and Beans is just over a year old. All are rescues and none had a good start in life. I've had only a couple of issues and that was only between Bella and Noel, but nothing serious. Just small fights that were easily broken up. All mine are spayed and I do think that makes a big difference. I've heard of unspayed females as well as males fighting. Occassionally, you will also have two spayed or neutered males fight, but really I believe it is a personality conflict rather then the sex of the dogs. You would never want two Alphas in the house, that would spell trouble but if you have two and one is more submissive that should be a good match. I have to be honest and say that I really do not like your trainer. His approach to me is terrible. I have never used a trainer. All mine have had issues from abuse, neglect, and non socialization. Noel took four years before she'd trust strangers. We NEVER drug her by her collar to get her to walk. Firmness in some instances is good but I'm a firm believer in patience and love will get you further. With Lola is she has not been socialized, you need to go slow with her and teach her love. This is far better then having her behave out of fear. Just my opinion. And, I really would not jump to conclusions that just because they are two females they will not get along. IF they are showing signs NOW of fighting or aggression towards each other then yes, I would agree that finding a new home for your newest would be best but I would not necessarily send her back to the breeder either if she was not socialized. Good Luck.

Elaine

BayAreaDesigner · 09-12-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrsygal37

I have four females and one male. My oldest Bella is Alpha. She is 5 yrs. old. Noel is 4 yrs. old, Tia is 3 yrs. old, Lilly is 2 years old and Beans is just over a year old. All are rescues and none had a good start in life. I've had only a couple of issues and that was only between Bella and Noel, but nothing serious. Just small fights that were easily broken up. All mine are spayed and I do think that makes a big difference. I've heard of unspayed females as well as males fighting. Occassionally, you will also have two spayed or neutered males fight, but really I believe it is a personality conflict rather then the sex of the dogs. You would never want two Alphas in the house, that would spell trouble but if you have two and one is more submissive that should be a good match. I have to be honest and say that I really do not like your trainer. His approach to me is terrible. I have never used a trainer. All mine have had issues from abuse, neglect, and non socialization. Noel took four years before she'd trust strangers. We NEVER drug her by her collar to get her to walk. Firmness in some instances is good but I'm a firm believer in patience and love will get you further. With Lola is she has not been socialized, you need to go slow with her and teach her love. This is far better then having her behave out of fear. Just my opinion. And, I really would not jump to conclusions that just because they are two females they will not get along. IF they are showing signs NOW of fighting or aggression towards each other then yes, I would agree that finding a new home for your newest would be best but I would not necessarily send her back to the breeder either if she was not socialized. Good Luck.

Elaine

I agree with your post and I agree also about the trainer. I was only hiring him for a one session consult, just to get some basic starter info. Didn't plan to keep him on. Certainly won't be calling him back again, that's for sure. Our philosophies did not match. Even not knowing what to do I had a bad feeling about what he was telling me. So happy to have the support of most on the forum. My girls seem to be adjusting well to ea other and I don't want them to behave out of fear either.

BayAreaDesigner · 09-12-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Sounds like you are doing everything right with your two!

That's the biggest mistake people make when they get two puppies at the same time, not letting them develop individually. It can lead to separation anxiety later on.

Two that are never separated also tend to bond more with one another than their owners.

Sounds like you are up to the challenge of raising two puppies successfully!

what do you think about spaying?? There seems to be a wide range of opinions re what age to do it. What do you think?

QuickSilver · 09-12-2009, 12:18 PM

I love Victoria Stilwell, you can learn a lot from her.

It is true that two females are more likely to fight than a male/female pair, esp. if they are unspayed, but it is not a CERTAINTY.

If you watch them play, you should be able to get a feel for when it is getting too rough. One thing to watch for is if one dog gets pinned for a prolonged period of time. You should interrupt them periodically just so they know you are the Boss Woman.

If you want to learn more about dog body language, 'Calming Signals' by Turid is a great read. A much thicker and informative text is 'Body Language' by Brenda Aloff, but that one takes a lot of commitment to get though.

Onni · 09-12-2009, 02:19 PM

I would stay away from that fruit cake trainer! I have two females..both spayed and they get along fine.

yorkielady06 · 09-12-2009, 04:01 PM

How are the girls getting along now? I read that one is more dominant and one more submissive. As a breeder that is the better match in females in a home, however they do tend to "disagree" more than a male/female combo (not all do however it does happen) It sounds like you and the breeder worked together to find the right fit with your other pup, you are using socialization early and regularly, and seem to have a genuine love for your new furbabies. Just wanted to give you a kudos for being the kind of new mommy that any reputable breeder would love to have as a client....So kudos to you....

PS: Never use that trainer again and let everyone in your community know that. Never use that type of correction on a tiny breed dog...I would love to do that to the trainer....

morgan111 · 09-12-2009, 04:28 PM

i have 4 in the house 3 females and 1 male and they get along very well but i do know from experience that they can fight .i had to rehome one of my boys and it was awful but if i didnt mu older boy would have killed his son it was not a nice experience so i guess it just depends on the situation .good luck with your girls

09-11-2009, 09:08 PM	#63
joeyandtanksmom YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kuna,ID,USA Posts: 557	I think the guy you hired is nuts. I have two unneutered males (16 months and 10 months), and they are just fine - they play fight of course, but they're never actually angry with each other. I do use collars for them (4 and 5 lbs), but I have worked very hard to train them, and they don't pull on their leashes. I would never use one of the choke chains though! That's just not appropriate for a tiny little yorkie...I could see one on a pit bull, lab, or rottie, but not a dog as small as a yorkie. That's just asking for tracheal collapse. If it seems that your babies are getting along well, there's no reason to think that it won't end up well. Of course there's gonna be a dominant one - that's how dogs are! They are pack animals. I'm sorry, but that just irks me...I would definitely wait to get your babies fixed, also. If they're too small, their bodies don't handle the anesthesia well. If anything, I would probably be more prone to putting it off. Then again, that's just kinda how I am... For getting them to walk on their leash, what I did was carried a treat. I would put the treat where they could see it, then I would just say stuff like "come on", and act very excited, like it was the most fun thing to do...Eventually they'll catch on. When they follow, give a treat, and try it again! I took little training treats and cut them in 4 pieces, so I wouldn't upset little tummies. I wish you the best of luck with your puppy training! __________________ Sandy: Joey & Tank's Mom Jackson Ryan

09-11-2009, 10:22 PM	#64
LilMissy Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 3,421	Oh my gosh! I wouldn't have paid him! That trainer gave you the worst advice possible, and probably set your little one back in her training by dragging her down the street like that. As far as owning 2 females...I've owned different pairs of female dogs for the last 27 yrs. I've never had a problem. I've never owned 2 yorkies, but I don't see how it could be any different from other small breed dogs. __________________ Shaunna with Missy (my princess) & Dora (my tomboy)

09-11-2009, 10:39 PM	#65
bugsmomma Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 92	I have 4 female dogs, 1 male. 3 of the girls are Yorkies, the other is a Sheltie. We have play fights everyday!! Occasionally I have to step in as the "noise" gets a little much for me. Everyone in my house lives in relative peace! It's like having multiple children~ for the most part I let them work it out but when it gets too hairy, I step in. You will learn the noises as they grow and they will learn from each other how far they can go. I agree with the lady at the vet's that they will be the best of friends!! __________________ LadybugBellaMistyDaisy MaeWebber Support OKYorkieRescue. org

09-12-2009, 12:18 PM	#72
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	I love Victoria Stilwell, you can learn a lot from her. It is true that two females are more likely to fight than a male/female pair, esp. if they are unspayed, but it is not a CERTAINTY. If you watch them play, you should be able to get a feel for when it is getting too rough. One thing to watch for is if one dog gets pinned for a prolonged period of time. You should interrupt them periodically just so they know you are the Boss Woman. If you want to learn more about dog body language, 'Calming Signals' by Turid is a great read. A much thicker and informative text is 'Body Language' by Brenda Aloff, but that one takes a lot of commitment to get though. __________________ If you love something, set it free. Unless it's an angry tiger.

09-12-2009, 02:19 PM	#73
Onni YT Addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 433	I would stay away from that fruit cake trainer! I have two females..both spayed and they get along fine. __________________ Tracye - Onni's, Bonnie Blue, and Bella's MoM Got Food? - http://www.gano.shelfreliance.com

09-11-2009, 10:40 PM	#66
BaxtersMommy Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,362 Blog Entries: 1	Another thing, I always get my puppies in pairs. Maybe not on the same day, but within weeks of each other. AND they have all done wonderfully. It does take work, but I love that they have each other during the day to play with and they absolutely ADORE one another. The first 2 months they were in separate crates, now they sleep together. They cuddle up & are so cute. Everything this guy says, I disagree with.

09-12-2009, 09:21 AM	#67
BayAreaDesigner Yorkie Yakker Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 74	To develop them individually, I read that they need separate crates so I bought another one last night. I have the wire medium size ones which is what they sleep in within the bigger xpen. I got it so they both have a place to go if they want to get away from each other. I put the younger pup in the new one and left her for about 90 mins so she could get used to it. When I let her out they switched crates (so funny)but did end up sleeping separately. Their crate doors stays open at nite so they can potty in the litter box (I am not training outside elimination exclusively). I have been walking them with another lady in our bldg who has a yorkie and pug but this morning I took the little one out for a walk alone (Lily won't walk on the leash now anyway, so I will walk her alone on our next walk). Since they are in daycare M-F (for now) I am going to rotate ea eve spending alone time w/ea switching off. I have multiple xpens on ea level of my condo (2 levels). I try to feed them separately but they end up eating out of the same bowl.

09-12-2009, 09:36 AM	#69
jrsygal37 Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 3,370	I have four females and one male. My oldest Bella is Alpha. She is 5 yrs. old. Noel is 4 yrs. old, Tia is 3 yrs. old, Lilly is 2 years old and Beans is just over a year old. All are rescues and none had a good start in life. I've had only a couple of issues and that was only between Bella and Noel, but nothing serious. Just small fights that were easily broken up. All mine are spayed and I do think that makes a big difference. I've heard of unspayed females as well as males fighting. Occassionally, you will also have two spayed or neutered males fight, but really I believe it is a personality conflict rather then the sex of the dogs. You would never want two Alphas in the house, that would spell trouble but if you have two and one is more submissive that should be a good match. I have to be honest and say that I really do not like your trainer. His approach to me is terrible. I have never used a trainer. All mine have had issues from abuse, neglect, and non socialization. Noel took four years before she'd trust strangers. We NEVER drug her by her collar to get her to walk. Firmness in some instances is good but I'm a firm believer in patience and love will get you further. With Lola is she has not been socialized, you need to go slow with her and teach her love. This is far better then having her behave out of fear. Just my opinion. And, I really would not jump to conclusions that just because they are two females they will not get along. IF they are showing signs NOW of fighting or aggression towards each other then yes, I would agree that finding a new home for your newest would be best but I would not necessarily send her back to the breeder either if she was not socialized. Good Luck. Elaine

09-12-2009, 04:01 PM	#74
yorkielady06 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Up North Posts: 808	How are the girls getting along now? I read that one is more dominant and one more submissive. As a breeder that is the better match in females in a home, however they do tend to "disagree" more than a male/female combo (not all do however it does happen) It sounds like you and the breeder worked together to find the right fit with your other pup, you are using socialization early and regularly, and seem to have a genuine love for your new furbabies. Just wanted to give you a kudos for being the kind of new mommy that any reputable breeder would love to have as a client....So kudos to you.... PS: Never use that trainer again and let everyone in your community know that. Never use that type of correction on a tiny breed dog...I would love to do that to the trainer....

09-12-2009, 04:28 PM	#75
morgan111 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: parksville Posts: 201	i have 4 in the house 3 females and 1 male and they get along very well but i do know from experience that they can fight .i had to rehome one of my boys and it was awful but if i didnt mu older boy would have killed his son it was not a nice experience so i guess it just depends on the situation .good luck with your girls __________________