I actually saw this same cross on a Ceasar Millan show. It was one of the weirdest crosses I have ever seen as well. My brother's dog is black lab and cocker spaniel mix. Its got the shortness and ears of the cocker and the body and head of a lab. Real cute dog.

I think tiny pups should cost more for 2 reasons. #1 the breeder spends much more time caring for tiny pups and puts ALOT of effort into making sure they get all the care they need. #2 good breeders spend more $ in doing tests (liver shunt) and making sure all shots and wormings are done. Raising pups might be a fun hobby, but it's also lots of work. Trust me, I will not be selling my puppies cheap after all the time I've put into them. and all the poop I've cleaned up. Some people don't know what is all involved in raising them..

She is a doll! When you meet the one for you - you know it! It is a special kind of love.

I am trying to follow this thread, but I find it a little hard to follow. Are Partis and Biewers the same dog? Are they the result of the same recessive gene? Is the difference between the 2 that the Biewers have established a standard color pattern AND can be traced to a certain pair in Europe? If the Biewers are a documented line, is there DNA like the AKC has for many of their registrants?

Aside from the "politics". I do think they are beautiful and if they establish a standard and can demonstrate a documented lineage, I don't see why they will not eventually seek and get AKC recognition as a variety or breed.

Unfortunately, when a breed gets "popular" there will always be people to exploit this for financial reasons and not breed betterment. JMO. :)

I will try to answer your questions.

I believe they are the same dog.

A couple of litters were born in a kennel in England ... some of the puppies went to Germany via the Biewers and some went to the United States. Mr. Biewer bred his Yorkies who both carried the piebald gene and produced a litter of white/blue/tan dogs. He was so impressed with the look of this litter that he started inbreeding to continue this line of dogs and to put the "look" on his dogs (which we know is the standard). The dogs that went to the US were bred and was shocking to the breeders and sold the dogs as pets or never acknowledged what happened. I have shorten the story but hopefully you understand what I believed happened.

No one was doing DNA over 25 years ago and in fact AKC just started in 1999 (I believe) so every Yorkie born you just have to trust the breeders told the truth....It does not help with the start of the breed be it...Yorkie, Biewer or Parti.

AKC does not set the standard...it is the parent club and in this case YTCA and they will not acknowledge these dogs for the show ring...this is why Parti's can be registered but not enter the showring.

I find it interesting that close to 20 AKC breeds have a piebald gene that is accepted but YTCA implies that a maltese got in this breed and caused all of these dogs to throw the different color of the Biewers..oh, and it happened 50 some years ago. Doesn't make sense to me.

Ok, I understand and I know YTCA sets standard for traditional yorkies, but if Biewer want to establish a standard, can't they apply to AKC or other Registries after they set up a club and establish a history and standards for the breed?

Also, a question for some of the long time breeders out there: in all the litters you have had, have you ever come across yorkies with a predominance of white in them like the partis and Biewers today?

I have met some breeders who have been breeding 30+ years and they have not had pups in litters with more than white on chests, some on underside of the abdomen.

There are several biewer clubs in the US and the breed does have a standard in place. There are also US registries open to biewers. The standard was written in their country of orgin, Germany.

If you want to introduce a new breed (must be made up with 3 different breeds) into AKC it starts with FSS and is a very long process (for good reasons) and the problem with the Biewer is 2 clubs say they are Yorkies. Another club that wants into AKC is now saying it is a new breed even though they used to say it was from Yorkies. While I think some of the Biewers are from different breeds I think some of the Yorkies are also. YTCA will not allow a variation of their standard.

If you read the Gordon sisters book (one of the best books written about yorkies) they talk about these dogs popping up from time to time. If you go to some old time breeders websites they also talk about it. A long time ago they used to cull these puppies...thankfully now they just pet them out spayed or neutered.

The Parti Yorkies are gorgeous dogs! But r they "Yorkies"? I do see where it would be an issue, especially if you are a breeder that strives to keep the Yorkshire Terrier breed within the standards set by the American Kennel Association. I say, if you love your dog, then call it anything that you want. That's the important thing. xx to your new addition.

The standard written by Mr. Biewer...right?

No. Mr Biewer's standard was quite simple and very brief. The standard I am refering to is the UCI standard accepted in the show circuits in every country this breed has won approval to be shown and I mean worldwide, not simply the US.

CAN SOMEONE SET ME STRAIGHT ON partis & biewers PLEASE?
 

:)So do I understand this right, that Partis and biewers are the same. The same
" fault " GENE in them both. Or are they any genetic codes that are not the same?

I think they are beautiful, but I do not agree that they should be so much more expensive than a standard yorkie.

It is an many of you have same IMHO exploiting a fault for money.

My Teddy has floppy ears, and I would not of bread from him. I love him like that, BUT I know it isn't correct, and so I wouldn't of breed him at all, in the hope I got floppy ears as puppies.

Thank goodness he has got floppy ears and I didn't breed him, as he now has heart problems, that can be inherited, so a blessing that I had him " done " before I knew that.

Getting back to the point. Are there any differences at all genetically with Partis, and Biewers.

How did these " fault " first appear, as white in the coat, and then they kept breeding those with the whiter coats?

SORRY TO SOUND DIM :):)

CAN SOMEONE SET ME STRAIGHT ON partis & biewers PLEASE?
 

sorry it posted three times

CAN SOMEONE SET ME STRAIGHT ON partis & biewers PLEASE?
 

sorry it posted three times

This is only my opinion they are the same dog. I do not believe it is a fault. Not all Biewers are more expensive than Yorkies. I cannot speak for Parti's as I have not followed what their average cost is.

Maybe from wolves...if you pick up books on genetics in our dogs many of these colorations came from wolves. It is very complex and I don't have the answers on why the piebald gene shows up in so many different breeds. We would have had to DNA dogs for the last 1000 years to have that answer. I also cannot answer your question on the difference because I have never seen the DNA markers on the Parti's. AKC did and that is why they are accepted only for registration with AKC and not for show. I have only seen DNA on Biewers.

You really need to read genetics on dogs before you can start saying people are only breeding for $$$ when it comes to the Parti's and the Biewers. You might want to goggle piebald gene in dogs.