Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2806239)

Oh dear, You have been badly misinformed. Please research before posting misinformation.

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2805690)

The same happens with the traditional colored Yorkies, many times with show costs to factor in too. Thus why people are always warned that you will never see profit when you breed in an ethical manner and will more often than not end up in the red.
Yes, there are situations where there are unforseen issues, like c-sections--that's the exception, not the norm.
The biggest issue would be paying the 4000 for the stock to begin with. Breeders with CH traditional colored Yorkies don't charge that much...what would make that particular dog any different?

Originally Posted by JennyLeroux (Post 2806226)

This is new information to me that the Parti and the Biewer can be traced back to a kennel in England. Where are you getting your info from? Any leads towards researching this would be appreciated.

I am also fascinated with Mr. Antonucci's contribution to the breed and I was unaware that he breed and showed Partis.

Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 2795440)

How would this be fair to those of us who truly love and want only the best for the parti yorkie?
At least 50% (probably many more then that) of the AKC traditional colored yorkies that are being bred today fall short (in some way or another) of the standard set forth by the YTCA. Just one look on Puppyfind will prove this fact. Why should my love of...and desire to better the parti yorkie...be determined by the amount of breeders who are not now, nor never will be breeding any color yorkie to a standard?

Many breed clubs have allowed variety classes for dogs that did not meet the standard set for the breed. The beagle has one for size. Both standards for the breed are identical except for height! Just two inches of height earned one of the sizes it's own variety class to be shown seprate from the other size. Imagine that?
So why can't those of us...who truly love the parti for it's color (and not how many pups we can produce to sell)...keep the dream that one day it will be granted show status with it's own color variety class? The American cocker spaniel has THREE color varieties and they are not shown in the same ring until group.

That is my hopes and dreams for the American Parti Yorkie. :)

But as BJH already stated so eloquently...the variety will need a lot of serious breeders who are more in love with the color (more so then money it can make) and start breeding the parti yorkie to a standard comparable to the show yorkie of today before that can ever happen. And right now...sadly...I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii (Post 2795490)

So what I am so curious about is how it starts. You can't breed brother and sister dogs right? So where do you get the Biewer to start with? like in the beginning the dogs would not be as they are today, they were slowly shaped that way, so how did they start out? What breeds did they mix to acheive that look? And since each breed is essentially created over time, why is there sometimes so much resistance to create a new breed? I find it so fasinating.

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2795535)

You summed that up perfectly! I think that there are a lot of dishonest "parti breeders" out there focusing on just color alone and profiting a pretty penny off of it...because of the "rare" factor. (Or likely just mixing something else in altogether.) I think those types of breeders really give those who ARE trying to go about breeding them ethically a bad name. And that really is unfortunate.

As far as following the standard except for color, I made a similar statement not long ago and had my head ripped off for it. I'm glad you were able to make such a simple AND TRUE statement without it turning into blood shed.:p

Despite some misconceptions that some people have, I'm really on the fence as far as partis go. The problem that presents itself is finding people who are actually taking the appropriate steps in breeding them ethically and not just hiding under the "creating something new all breeds started somewhere" excuse. :)

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2806286)

The YTCA is just a club, that has set the standards for the dogs that are to be shown. It did not create the yorkie, in fact todays yorkies are far different from the original yorkies.

It's just a club that has set rules and guidelines for their members. I do not belong to their club for the same reason that I don't belong to many other clubs, simply because I do not believe in their rules.

I am not trying to change the look of the YTCA standard, I am just breeding nice healthy, sound beautiful dogs.

Many show breeders are not concerned with health, they just want a champion, and are not the least concerned with health or temprament.

Just because a dog looks perfect does not mean that it should reproduce. And just because a dog has a color fault does not mean that it shlould not reproduce.

Perhaps putting some variety back into the breed could help to keep the lines healthy.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2806325)

Adding recessive genes has never been shown to make anything more healthy, and in fact, many illnesses are linked to the recessive gene.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2806298)

For the most part all you have to do is look at some of the Parti's...they are identical to the Biewers and our club studied pedigree's and asked questions of many, many people over the last 4 years. The rumor has always been out there and it didn't make any sense that these were two different dogs.

I cannot attest to the fact if Antonucci did or did not contribute to the Parti breed but myself along with about 30 other people saw Antonucci at the IABCA showing his parti when my club was holding a specialty for the Biewers. You can ask anyone from the BAPPC and the BBCA as many members were at the specialty. Not a big secret he just didn't promote them on the same webpage.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2806298)

For the most part all you have to do is look at some of the Parti's...they are identical to the Biewers and our club studied pedigree's and asked questions of many, many people over the last 4 years. The rumor has always been out there and it didn't make any sense that these were two different dogs.

I cannot attest to the fact if Antonucci did or did not contribute to the Parti breed but myself along with about 30 other people saw Antonucci at the IABCA showing his parti when my club was holding a specialty for the Biewers. You can ask anyone from the BAPPC and the BBCA as many members were at the specialty. Not a big secret he just didn't promote them on the same webpage.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2806368)

That is very interesting.

It really is a shame that all records of the tri colored yorkie have been kept hidden, or have never existed.

Originally Posted by JennyLeroux (Post 2806548)

I have always thought that the Parti's did resemble the Biewer but the coloring looks to be different to me. The Biewers tend to have more black on their backs and their coloring pattern seems to be universal for the most part with some variance whereas the Partis seem to have less color. Is there any source you can give as to your claim or is this strictly form the research that your club has done on the pedigrees? Also, if this is true then what is you or your club's theory as to how the Biewerwitz's credit in starting the breed in Germany? I am also curious as to what club you are a part of if you don't mind me asking.

Did Mr. Antonucci breed or own Biewers? It seems as if he had such admiration for the breed and such interest in the genetics that he naturally would be interested in the Biewers. I ask this out of pure curiosity.

Originally Posted by JennyLeroux (Post 2806562)

I feel this has been done because there is something to hide. It is a shame that we love and enjoy the breed so much but we will never know and much debate and controversy surrounds this mystery.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2806575)

I could show you many, many, many pictures where you can not tell the difference between the two dogs. I can show you pictures where a number of Biewers only have color on their heads. Many of the early Biewers were the blue color and most of the black saddles you are seeing slowly change color by the time the dog is 3 they have lighten considerably.

I am not sure what/who you mean by the Biewerwitz's? Werner Biewer is credited with establishing the Biewer Yorkshire in Germany and setting a standard. You can google the history of the Biewer and for the most part all of the clubs agree on the start of the Biewers. I belong to the BAPPC club. We believe you should bring in Yorkies about every 5th generation as these dogs have been so inbred. We do not believe the studbooks should be closed which should be happening if breeders are only breeding Biewer to Biewer in my/our mind.

I do not know if Antonucci did anything with the Biewers. My guess and only a guess is that the answer is no as Biewers were not recognized by AKC as the Parti's are.