"Parti Yorkies" What's your opinion

[3FurryFaces]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Yes...many biewers being born today have none, or very little color on their bodies. Many do not have the symmetrical markings on the head either, with little to no white on the head and face.

The Biewer standard calls for "Rather white or blue-white broken or closely blue absolute, or black, without brown coloring. Hair on the breast, pure white on the belly, and the legs. The head with White-blue-gold, symmetrical colored".

I keep hearing over and over how the Biewer is different then the parti because it has a standard. Yet half the Biewers being born do not conform to the standard and should be neutered and spayed... not shown and bred.

Just as many parti's are born with so-called Biewer markings.

Is that a yes to the first of my questions, the second or both?
I'm a little confused by the standard - does the phrase "Rather white or blue-white broken or closely blue absolute, or black, without brown coloring..." refer to the saddle area or the dog as a whole?

[GreenwoodBiewer]

That particular part of the standard refers to the saddle or "back".

I have to say I am so happy this discussion is going on.. Thrilled actually.. please keep going.. you are opening up many peoples minds to different possibilities here..Thank you all.

Diana

[Breezeaway]

When and by whom was the Biewer standard written? Who decided to keep the long tail? All the photos I see of Mr Biewer with his dogs the tails look short, not long.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by Emmsmom

I haven't posted in a while but I have to agree! I think they are gorgeous and would LOVE to own one. However, I refuse to pay some crazy price because someone slaps the word "rare" in there. Someone correct me if I am wrong but.. The value should be MUCH less than that of a tradional colored Yorkie because you can not show them and I am not even sure if you can register them. I think they can do agility but that would about it.

I agree with you.

However, the truth of the matter is...the value of a parti or Biewer is what ever the breeder feels his/her pups are worth. They have the right to ask what they want or feel they can get.

I paid good money for my parti's. Not because I wanted too...but because if I wanted one...I had no choice. Same with the Biewers.

When something is hard to find...no matter what it is...it always costs more. Example...look at sought after Christmas toys that are hard to get. People pay 3 to 4 times the store value to get one.
If you don't pay the asking price of for a parti puppy...someone else will.

The good news is...the prices seem to be slowly coming down. I remember 2 years ago...you couldn't touch a female parti puppy for less then $5,000. (INSANE!!)
You can find one now for $3,000. I know...that is still insane for many. But the price is dropping, and it will drop more for those who have alway's dreamed of owning one. : )

And yes...the AKC does consider them purebred yorkies and they are AKC registered.

[AprilLove]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Purebred yorkies are what's behind all the Biewer lines!! And a lot of health problems as well. My Biewers are registered in Germany as Biewer Yorkshire's. Not Biewers, and certainly not Biewer Terriers.

Until Germany closes the stud book...breeders who truly care about the Biewers future health have the right to breed a quality and health tested yorkie back into the lines. It has been done this way since the first Biewer was born.

It wasn't until us Americans got a hold of it a mere 7 years ago that we felt we had the right to change the name, change the standard, etc...just to make it our own breed. It's a tri colored German Yorkie. It always has been!!

If you choose to breed to a small gene pool, over and over...that is your right. I would never try and force my breeding philosophies on you or your clubs breeding practices. I am sure you will do the same for those who don't share your same views on the Biewer Yorkie.

Karen,

Can you tell me if you mean Purebred Yorkies are behind all the health problems of the Biewers, or if you mean the Biewers have a lot of health problems? (not sure how to read that) if so, what are the health problems and why does adding Yorkies fix that?

I think some Americans choose to change the standard to fit the dogs they were producing instead of trying to breed to the standards set forth by Werner Biewer (imho)


What exactly constitutes a small gene pool? Seriously, I don't know this and wonder what breeders use as guide? Is there a certain number of lines going back a certain number of generations etc etc? that makes it a worthy gene pool to close stud books? How is it determined that the current gene pool is small?

I agree, breeders have a right to do whatever they want, but respectfully disagree that only breeders breeding back to American Yorkies truly care about the health and future of the breed.

We disagree on practices but I don't feel any one is trying to force breeding policies on one another. We all just want to state why we believe the way we do, I think it can be accomplished without stepping on anyones toes.

What I think many of us fell in love with is the fact that this breed is different, because they originated in Germany and have a distinct look to them and personality, etc. and many are trying to preserve that distinction by breeding only back to german lines.
It my personal opinion only that by breeding back to American Yorkies, we are changing the breed/ the look/ the disposition to an american breed, changing the look eventually of the dog we all fell in love with, not to mention adding possibly future health problems. If someone were truly wanting to keep the German Biewer Yorkshire Terrier what is is now (Werner Biewers), then anyone that is choosing to use Yorkies should be using German bred Yorkies. (personal opinion) Again, just felt a desire to add yet another opinion to the mix
and hope no one jumps all over me for it, lol JMHO

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces

Is that a yes to the first of my questions, the second or both?
I'm a little confused by the standard - does the phrase "Rather white or blue-white broken or closely blue absolute, or black, without brown coloring..." refer to the saddle area or the dog as a whole?

From my understanding...it refers to the saddle. Sorry for the confusion.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I agree with this, and I believe that one of the reasons so many people can't see the differences between the Parti and the Biewer is that BOTH sides do not trace back, they are diluting the gene pool every time they breed back to the Yorkie, either with traditional yorkies or parti colored yorkies.

By the way, for those who breed parti to biewer, why aren't the offspring called or sold as parti puppies instead of biewers? Is it only because they they can't be AKC registered?

Good point and probably very true. Because if they weren't registered as Biewers, they would not be registered at all.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

When and by whom was the Biewer standard written? Who decided to keep the long tail? All the photos I see of Mr Biewer with his dogs the tails look short, not long.

The standard from the country of origin in which biewers are allowed to be shown...show under. Germany banned tail docking....hence the reason the tails are no longer docked.

Here's the UCI standard. You can use bablefish to translate it.

Verband Deutscher Rassehundefreunde e. V. Köln

Biewer terriers only exist in the US.... their standard is different from the standard from the country of origin.

[yorkiegirl2]

Would it be better to breed to, say a soft black since black seem to be a more dominate color.
To try to retain more coloring in the Parti/Biewers ??

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I do agree that the Biewer line and the parti line have went different ways since the beginning which does make them different, it makes them different in the same way that the Durrer line is Different than the Parquin line or any other line of breeding one chooses to accomplish. To me the fact remains when you trace both the Parti and the Biewer ,They came from 2 traditional yorkshire terriers, and both from Streamglen Shaun. IN my opinion that makes them a Yorkshire Terrier no matter what name you call them. To me the Biewer Terrier is a line of the yorkshire terrier

Agreed. But because the German registries allowed them to start a new breed, based on color alone, they now are not recognized as yorkshire Terriers by the AKC, which is why some Biewer clubs are claiming that they are mixed with other breeds.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

I agree this has been a very civil discussion.
I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

The info on lines and such has been very informative.
Since I have been studying the Parti’s and the lines for the last few years.
I’ve always wondered where the Nikko lines originated.

While I couldn’t afford to spring for a Full Parti .
I did however find a very nice little carrier boy with the CA. lines.
And hope to next year to find a nice carrier female to go with him.

I am proud to introduce my new boy Gizmo.

He's a doll. I just sold a parti carrier female very reasonable. I expect to be getting more early next year. Mine are all out of the Ca line.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Purebred yorkies are what's behind all the Biewer lines!! And a lot of health problems as well. My Biewers are registered in Germany as Biewer Yorkshire's. Not Biewers, and certainly not Biewer Terriers.

Until Germany closes the stud book...breeders who truly care about the Biewers future health have the right to breed a quality and health tested yorkie back into the lines. It has been done this way since the first Biewer was born.

It wasn't until us Americans got a hold of it a mere 7 years ago that we felt we had the right to change the name, change the standard, etc...just to make it our own breed. It's a tri colored German Yorkie. It always has been!!

If you choose to breed to a small gene pool, over and over...that is your right. I would never try and force my breeding philosophies on you or your clubs breeding practices. I am sure you will do the same for those who don't share your same views on the Biewer Yorkie.

I am not. I am merely providing information.

In Orlando in February there will be a seminar by a world leading genetics expert, Dr. Gerald Bell....perhaps you would be interested in his opinion regarding the gene pool. I know personally I am really looking forward to it.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Good point and probably very true. Because if they weren't registered as Biewers, they would not be registered at all.

Exactly!! And if they were not eligible for registration...I would not have bred the litter in the first place. Because what would be the point in breeding an unregistered litter except for selling them to make money?

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I am not. I am merely providing information.

In Orlando in February there will be a seminar by a world leading genetics expert, Dr. Gerald Bell....perhaps you would be interested in his opinion regarding the gene pool. I know personally I am really looking forward to it.

I know this...and your very good at it!! : )

I certianly would be interested in this seminar...and God willing...will be there showing my first bred by.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Exactly!! And if they were not eligible for registration...I would not have bred the litter in the first place. Because what would be the point in breeding an unregistered litter except for selling them to make money?