"Parti Yorkies" What's your opinion

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

We have been having a discussion if the Parti's and the Biewers are the same dog and it doesn't make sense to me that you would throw in a description of a dog rather than genetic information. Descriptions to me are marketing terms rather than genetic information.

What gene do you believe is in the Parti's to cause the color variation? Why do you believe this happened?

I believe what you said about which gene causes the coloring. I'm not arguing with you, that it is the same dog, I agree, I have posted the same thing in many other threads.

But some people seemed to be getting confused between the Biewer and the parti, thinking that the partis were actually a breed of dog rather than a color.

I was just trying to make it clear, that the partis are AKC because they are first and foremost yorkies but with a different color, whereas while the Biewer is the same dog, it actually has it's own breed clubs and standards.

Does that explain it?

[3FurryFaces]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I believe what you said about which gene causes the coloring. I'm not arguing with you, that it is the same dog, I agree, I have posted the same thing in many other threads.

But some people seemed to be getting confused between the Biewer and the parti, thinking that the partis were actually a breed of dog rather than a color.

I was just trying to make it clear, that the partis are AKC because they are first and foremost yorkies but with a different color, whereas while the Biewer is the same dog, it actually has it's own breed clubs and standards.

Does that explain it?

So, if I may sum up, parti is an accepted (by AKC) color description of an AKC recognized yorkie registerable with AKC, but not eligible to be shown for conformation.
Biewers may or may not be a different breed depending on which clubs opinion you hold - some people are arguing that it is a different breed, but not the larger, older Biewer organization. Biewers are not AKC recognized. The Biewer clubs only recognize Biewers that can be traced back to the original Biewer Yorkies.
For the people that believe it is the same breed, but a color variation, there is a gene for the white color addition.
The debate arises because not everyone agrees about the origin of the Biewer - but there is agreement that partis were from traditional yorkies with a genetic color difference. Have I got it?

[bchgirl]

I don't believe it makes the dogs the same simply because the foundation pairs came from the same kennel. The subsequent breedings apparently took different paths.

Mr. Biewer selectively bred his dogs for 5 years until he succeeded in setting the phenotype.

I don't see evidence of a set phenotype in parti's.

Any other breeding other than biewer bred to biewer bred dilutes the phenotype he worked to perfect...which may explain the loss of color seen in some biewers someone mentioned earlier. If you look at pedigrees which include 6 or even 7 generations of ONLY biewer to biewer breedings....these lines still produce biewers which match his set phenotype.

The foundation pair of biewers is Fru Fru and Darling Friedheck...every biewer with true German heritage will trace back to this pair on both sides of it's pedigree.

Researching a biewer's pedigree while maybe time consuming...is still easily done.

Using a parti in breedings isn't a new concept....another member of YT did the same thing. Pedigrees with her dogs are still out there...

[3FurryFaces]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I don't believe it makes the dogs the same simply because the foundation pairs came from the same kennel. The subsequent breedings apparently took different paths.

Mr. Biewer selectively bred his dogs for 5 years until he succeeded in setting the phenotype.

I don't see evidence of a set phenotype in parti's.

Any other breeding other than biewer bred to biewer bred dilutes the phenotype he worked to perfect...which may explain the loss of color seen in some biewers someone mentioned earlier. If you look at pedigrees which include 6 or even 7 generations of ONLY biewer to biewer breedings....these lines still produce biewers which match his set phenotype.

The foundation pair of biewers is Fru Fru and Darling Friedheck...every biewer with true German heritage will trace back to this pair on both sides of it's pedigree.

Researching a biewer's pedigree while maybe time consuming...is still easily done.

Using a parti in breedings isn't a new concept....another member of YT did the same thing. Pedigrees with her dogs are still out there...

I think we are stating that they are the same only to the degree that the same genetics causes the color - type is different because the Biewers have essentially been "line bred" for generations to establish a "type". This is not tremendously different from other breeders of yorkies or other breeds who choose to line breed to set a certain "type" in their lines.

[Breny]

Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces

When you breed a Biewer to a Parti, what registry can they be recognized by?

Most German clubs and two American clubs still register the biewer and yorkie produced pups. A few of the more notable German Clubs that do, are the IBC, the DHS,and the VRZ e.V.

In America...the BYC and the BYTNC.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I don't believe it makes the dogs the same simply because the foundation pairs came from the same kennel. The subsequent breedings apparently took different paths.

Mr. Biewer selectively bred his dogs for 5 years until he succeeded in setting the phenotype.

I don't see evidence of a set phenotype in parti's.

Any other breeding other than biewer bred to biewer bred dilutes the phenotype he worked to perfect...which may explain the loss of color seen in some biewers someone mentioned earlier. If you look at pedigrees which include 6 or even 7 generations of ONLY biewer to biewer breedings....these lines still produce biewers which match his set phenotype.

The foundation pair of biewers is Fru Fru and Darling Friedheck...every biewer with true German heritage will trace back to this pair on both sides of it's pedigree.
Researching a biewer's pedigree while maybe time consuming...is still easily done.

Using a parti in breedings isn't a new concept....another member of YT did the same thing. Pedigrees with her dogs are still out there...

I agree with this, and I believe that one of the reasons so many people can't see the differences between the Parti and the Biewer is that BOTH sides do not trace back, they are diluting the gene pool every time they breed back to the Yorkie, either with traditional yorkies or parti colored yorkies.

By the way, for those who breed parti to biewer, why aren't the offspring called or sold as parti puppies instead of biewers? Is it only because they they can't be AKC registered?

[Emmsmom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I think it's great that you adore you're lil parti pup.

I'm a traditionalist and exhibitor....while I think all dogs are lovely and sweet and great. I just don't agree with breeding anything outside the standard on purpose and charging more for it because they convince the public that it is a rare colored yorkie.....

I haven't posted in a while but I have to agree! I think they are gorgeous and would LOVE to own one. However, I refuse to pay some crazy price because someone slaps the word "rare" in there. Someone correct me if I am wrong but.. The value should be MUCH less than that of a tradional colored Yorkie because you can not show them and I am not even sure if you can register them. I think they can do agility but that would about it.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bonbon

I just want to post to subscribe to this thread. It's one of the most informative ones I've read (& I've read a lot of them). You all are doing an excellent job - thank you!

I agree....and I hope it stays that way!!

[Breezeaway]

I do agree that the Biewer line and the parti line have went different ways since the beginning which does make them different, it makes them different in the same way that the Durrer line is Different than the Parquin line or any other line of breeding one chooses to accomplish. To me the fact remains when you trace both the Parti and the Biewer ,They came from 2 traditional yorkshire terriers, and both from Streamglen Shaun. IN my opinion that makes them a Yorkshire Terrier no matter what name you call them. To me the Biewer Terrier is a line of the yorkshire terrier

[Micah my love]

I would just like to say that i have enjoyed this thread and have been following it since it started, a lot of things i have wondered about have been answered here and i will say to the ones of you who have taken
the time and researched so many thing here i commend you for sharing

we should have more nice informative discussions like this

thanks

[3FurryFaces]

Originally Posted by Emmsmom

I haven't posted in a while but I have to agree! I think they are gorgeous and would LOVE to own one. However, I refuse to pay some crazy price because someone slaps the word "rare" in there. Someone correct me if I am wrong but.. The value should be MUCH less than that of a tradional colored Yorkie because you can not show them and I am not even sure if you can register them. I think they can do agility but that would about it.

Well, it depends on where they are registered, as has been brought up in prior posts, the Biewers are registered to registries other than AKC and they are shown by those organization in their conformation events. The "partis" are registered with AKC, but not recognized as a variety for the purpose of conformation events.
Does anyone know if an AKC registered parti can be cross registered and shown in other registries?

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I do agree that the Biewer line and the parti line have went different ways since the beginning which does make them different, it makes them different in the same way that the Durrer line is Different than the Parquin line or any other line of breeding one chooses to accomplish. To me the fact remains when you trace both the Parti and the Biewer ,They came from 2 traditional yorkshire terriers, and both from Streamglen Shaun. IN my opinion that makes them a Yorkshire Terrier no matter what name you call them. To me the Biewer Terrier is a line of the yorkshire terrier

The Durrer line and Parquin line of yorkshire terriers were breeding toward a standard already developed and setting a phenotype towards that goal.

I like the lineage behind the biewer lines. That's what I like to see perserved...the lineage. Much like whoever developed the Nikko line of parti's went to the trouble of having the dogs dna'd and vertified so that they may be AKC registered. They were preserving the lineage.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

I don't believe it makes the dogs the same simply because the foundation pairs came from the same kennel. The subsequent breedings apparently took different paths.

Mr. Biewer selectively bred his dogs for 5 years until he succeeded in setting the phenotype.

I don't see evidence of a set phenotype in parti's.

Any other breeding other than biewer bred to biewer bred dilutes the phenotype he worked to perfect...which may explain the loss of color seen in some biewers someone mentioned earlier. If you look at pedigrees which include 6 or even 7 generations of ONLY biewer to biewer breedings....these lines still produce biewers which match his set phenotype.
The foundation pair of biewers is Fru Fru and Darling Friedheck...every biewer with true German heritage will trace back to this pair on both sides of it's pedigree.

Researching a biewer's pedigree while maybe time consuming...is still easily done.

Using a parti in breedings isn't a new concept....another member of YT did the same thing. Pedigrees with her dogs are still out there...

Hmmm...IMO...just as many parti marked Biewers are being born to supposed "true German heritage Biewers that haven't been deluted with anything but that same Biewer lines. I have had white bodied pups born from my two "true" German Biewers.

In fact...wasn't an almost all white Biewer puppy...who happens to be out of two "true German heritage Biewers"...recently shown at the Candian Specialty?

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Hmmm...IMO...just as many parti marked Biewers are being born to supposed "true German heritage Biewers that haven't been deluted with anything but that same Biewer lines. I have had white bodied pups born from my two "true" German Biewers.

In fact...wasn't an almost all white Biewer puppy...who happens to be out of two "true German heritage Biewers"...recently shown at the Candian Specialty?

Isnt that why some allow the breeding back to the traditional color to keep the white from taking over?

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I do agree that the Biewer line and the parti line have went different ways since the beginning which does make them different, it makes them different in the same way that the Durrer line is Different than the Parquin line or any other line of breeding one chooses to accomplish. To me the fact remains when you trace both the Parti and the Biewer ,They came from 2 traditional yorkshire terriers, and both from Streamglen Shaun. IN my opinion that makes them a Yorkshire Terrier no matter what name you call them. To me the Biewer Terrier is a line of the yorkshire terrier

Exactly!