"Parti Yorkies" What's your opinion - Page 19 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

JeanieK · 10-28-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces

Can someone explain to me how an open or closed stud book affects breeding practices? Not being facitious, just asking for information...

Was this question ever answered? I'm curious too.

3FurryFaces · 10-28-2009, 07:30 PM

JeanieK: No, I have not heard back from anyone about this.

Breezeaway · 10-28-2009, 07:35 PM

In a closed stud book, the parents must also be registered in this or another registry for the breed that the organization maintaining the registry will accept (such as that in another country). This ensures that the animal is a purebred member of the breed. It also, depending on original numbers and management practices, can lead to an ever increasing level of inbreeding.
An open stud book, animals can be registered without their parents having been previously registered. This allows breeders to strengthen breeds by including individuals who conform to the breed standard but are of outside origin.
An open stud book may eventually become closed once the breed type is deemed to be fully set.

3FurryFaces · 10-28-2009, 07:37 PM

kpstoybox mentioned that the German stud book on the Biewers is "open" and allows breed back to traditional yorkies... maybe someone with German registered Biewers can explain the effect of open vs closed book on breeding.

3FurryFaces · 10-28-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

In a closed stud book, the parents must also be registered in this or another registry for the breed that the organization maintaining the registry will accept (such as that in another country). This ensures that the animal is a purebred member of the breed. It also, depending on original numbers and management practices, can lead to an ever increasing level of inbreeding.
An open stud book, animals can be registered without their parents having been previously registered. This allows breeders to strengthen breeds by including individuals who conform to the breed standard but are of outside origin.
An open stud book may eventually become closed once the breed type is deemed to be fully set.

Hmmm... But some Biewers breed back to traditional yorkies and they don't meet each others standard.

Breezeaway · 10-28-2009, 07:43 PM

Basically it means that in open, you can breed to a Biewer or a traditional and it be a biewer if one parent is a registered Biewer with them.
In closed it must be bred with a dog (Biewer to Biewer)that is listed in their closed stud books only.

Breezeaway · 10-28-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces

Hmmm... But some Biewers breed back to traditional yorkies and they don't meet each others standard.

I guess that is why there are so many diff Biewer clubs and standards

3FurryFaces · 10-28-2009, 07:45 PM

oh, so sorry... i thought I hit the confused smiley,,, not sarcastic,,, so sorry

Breezeaway · 10-28-2009, 07:55 PM

The conflict of color in alot of dog breeds will go on forever. For years I raised Brittanys. The original Brittany in France had black and white but U.S. decided they only like the orange and white, so the American Brittany club decided that black was a disqualification. So in AKC ,black and white Brittanys cannot be shown,but they can be registered AKC because they are brittanys and they have now been dubbed the French brittany. All because of the USA

3FurryFaces · 10-28-2009, 07:58 PM

On the subject of open vs closed stud books, , there are Dalmatian breeders who want to reopen the stud book to allow Dalmatians who were crossbred generations (1970's) back to a pointer. This was done to eliminate certain Dal health problems - the controversy being breed purity vs. health concerns. I can see where widening the gene pool is necessary and it is a fine line between too narrow and wide enough...

GreenwoodBiewer · 10-28-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces

Hmmm... But some Biewers breed back to traditional yorkies and they don't meet each others standard.

When you breed a Biewer back to a traditional colored yorkie, you will get only traditional colored yorkies. These puppies would not be called Biewers either in the US or in Germany but registered in Germany as a Yorkie as they have the yorkie coloring. They are refered to as a "splitter" (or a "carrier' if you are talking about Parti's) When you breed these splitters back to a Biewer, then is when you have a chance of creating a pup with the correct coloring that allows that pup to then be registered as a Biewer. There may be 4 pups in a litter and only 1 Biewer. 3 registered as Yorkies and 1 registered as a Biewer.

It is the coloring of the pup that makes the determination how it is registered.

In theory, when you breed a Parti to a Biewer, you are doing nothing more than breeding a tri colored yorkie to a tri colored yorkie. You by pass one entire generation as you get pups with the three colors from the first breedings because BOTH parents already have the recessive genes necessary. No, the pups can not be registered AKC as only one parent is registered with AKC, they can however be registered as a Biewer just as any other yorkie bred with a Biewer qualifies for registration once it's coloring swithches to the tri color needed to be classified as such. This is not a new or unusual or controversal practice in Germany, they have bred back to yorkies since the beginning of the breed as they realized the dangers of the gene pools being to small. The only "NEW" twist is the Parti.. the tri colored yorkie in the US.. I don't believe either country knew that they had the same dogs and that realization is just starting to take place.

I have already been approached by a breeder in Germany to bring Parti's over there to help with their programs.. it only makes sense. They understand that their breed is in real danger and needs to have an infusion of new lines. I'll be going next summer and hopefully the timing will work out for what we hope to accomplish.

Again, I appreciate all the information that has been shared in this thread, it's been really wonderful

Diana

kpstoybox · 10-28-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I have Rolls royce ashley's 4 generation akc pedigree

Thanks for the pedigree's Deb!! I was thrilled to finally see the conection.

And thanks for doing the footwork on this one!!

kpstoybox · 10-28-2009, 10:44 PM

[QUOTE=bchgirl;2858374]Good....cause I'd like to meet ya in person.

I might have a new baby to show myself.[/QUOTE]

In my best Ace Ventura inpersonation..."Reallllllyy"!!!

Wow...looking forward to more info on this lucky baby........Girl?

Just a hunch!

And I too...look forward to meeting you and so many others who have been so nice to me on this incredible journey.

Breezeaway · 10-29-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

Thanks for the pedigree's Deb!! I was thrilled to finally see the conection.

And thanks for doing the footwork on this one!!

Thanks, it took me awhile, but I got there. BTW I added another on Nikko's Little Girl Blue

Breezeaway · 10-29-2009, 11:27 AM

I have found that the parti never showed up in the Nikkos line until 2 certain dogs were bred together that resulted in the parti color, and that is because they both carried the streamglen line. It never showed until they bred those 2 dogs. Once they were mated together and they carried that same gene , they got Parti's. Isn't research fascinating.

10-28-2009, 07:30 PM	#272
3FurryFaces Donating YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island NY, USA Posts: 302	JeanieK: No, I have not heard back from anyone about this. __________________ Pam, CoCoa, Billy, Tuesday, Saucy, Snowflake, Sivi More Furry Faces wwwYTCGNY.org

10-28-2009, 07:37 PM	#274
3FurryFaces Donating YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island NY, USA Posts: 302	kpstoybox mentioned that the German stud book on the Biewers is "open" and allows breed back to traditional yorkies... maybe someone with German registered Biewers can explain the effect of open vs closed book on breeding. __________________ Pam, CoCoa, Billy, Tuesday, Saucy, Snowflake, Sivi More Furry Faces wwwYTCGNY.org

10-28-2009, 07:45 PM	#278
3FurryFaces Donating YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island NY, USA Posts: 302	oh, so sorry... i thought I hit the confused smiley,,, not sarcastic,,, so sorry __________________ Pam, CoCoa, Billy, Tuesday, Saucy, Snowflake, Sivi More Furry Faces wwwYTCGNY.org

10-28-2009, 07:58 PM	#280
3FurryFaces Donating YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island NY, USA Posts: 302	On the subject of open vs closed stud books, , there are Dalmatian breeders who want to reopen the stud book to allow Dalmatians who were crossbred generations (1970's) back to a pointer. This was done to eliminate certain Dal health problems - the controversy being breed purity vs. health concerns. I can see where widening the gene pool is necessary and it is a fine line between too narrow and wide enough... __________________ Pam, CoCoa, Billy, Tuesday, Saucy, Snowflake, Sivi More Furry Faces wwwYTCGNY.org

10-28-2009, 10:44 PM	#283
kpstoybox Do you like Parti's?" Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,337	[QUOTE=bchgirl;2858374]Good....cause I'd like to meet ya in person. I might have a new baby to show myself.[/QUOTE] In my best Ace Ventura inpersonation..."Reallllllyy"!!! Wow...looking forward to more info on this lucky baby........Girl? Just a hunch! And I too...look forward to meeting you and so many others who have been so nice to me on this incredible journey. __________________ Karen and the PartiTime Kids There's always a parti at my house!

10-28-2009, 07:35 PM	#273
Breezeaway No Longer a Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wildcat Country(KY) Posts: 2,114 Blog Entries: 26	In a closed stud book, the parents must also be registered in this or another registry for the breed that the organization maintaining the registry will accept (such as that in another country). This ensures that the animal is a purebred member of the breed. It also, depending on original numbers and management practices, can lead to an ever increasing level of inbreeding. An open stud book, animals can be registered without their parents having been previously registered. This allows breeders to strengthen breeds by including individuals who conform to the breed standard but are of outside origin. An open stud book may eventually become closed once the breed type is deemed to be fully set.

10-28-2009, 07:43 PM	#276
Breezeaway No Longer a Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wildcat Country(KY) Posts: 2,114 Blog Entries: 26	Basically it means that in open, you can breed to a Biewer or a traditional and it be a biewer if one parent is a registered Biewer with them. In closed it must be bred with a dog (Biewer to Biewer)that is listed in their closed stud books only.

10-28-2009, 07:55 PM	#279
Breezeaway No Longer a Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wildcat Country(KY) Posts: 2,114 Blog Entries: 26	The conflict of color in alot of dog breeds will go on forever. For years I raised Brittanys. The original Brittany in France had black and white but U.S. decided they only like the orange and white, so the American Brittany club decided that black was a disqualification. So in AKC ,black and white Brittanys cannot be shown,but they can be registered AKC because they are brittanys and they have now been dubbed the French brittany. All because of the USA

10-29-2009, 11:27 AM	#285
Breezeaway No Longer a Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wildcat Country(KY) Posts: 2,114 Blog Entries: 26	I have found that the parti never showed up in the Nikkos line until 2 certain dogs were bred together that resulted in the parti color, and that is because they both carried the streamglen line. It never showed until they bred those 2 dogs. Once they were mated together and they carried that same gene , they got Parti's. Isn't research fascinating.