An Offer you couldn't refuse ;)

[YorkieShadow]

Well I have been here on YT awhile now im an oldie and I have to agree with most of the newbies sorry.
I think its great to get the word out about puppy mills. they need to be stopped. closed down, but this thread is not the place for it. I mean come on lets inform her tell her about what APRI Is then leave it at that. This thread was about her wanting to help people that wanted help with naming their Yorkies. and I think its great that she offered her help.

[EverythingMiley]

Originally Posted by mnewco

However, if a breeder has no more than 2 for breeding, there will be a lot less unwanted dogs in this world and a lot less being taken to shelters only to be killed. The same goes for cats. I breed Sphyx once every 2 years and I only have two. One male and one female. That is plenty every 2 years so that the population can be controlled.

I also have a show dog, a Samoyed that I am only going to breed if she wins in the ring. If not, I am not going to breed them just to breed them. They have a better chance being sold if the mother and father (whoever it is at the time) are champions. She has more champions in a pedigree than I ever saw. Only a handful from a 5 generation has not been champions so I don't want her breeding pups without a championship. Enough of this. It has nothing to do with your post. Just wanted to point out this out.

As far as legislation goes, the people don't usually get to vote on laws. It is up the states.

GREAT POST..I AGREE WITH YOU 100%
now off to bed I need to go..

[EverythingMiley]

Originally Posted by YorkieShadow

Well I have been here on YT awhile now im an oldie and I have to agree with most of the newbies sorry.
I think its great to get the word out about puppy mills. they need to be stopped. closed down, but this thread is not the place for it. I mean come on lets inform her tell her about what APRI Is then leave it at that. This thread was about her wanting to help people that wanted help with naming their Yorkies. and I think its great that she offered her help.

I agree and here I too went off topic
Rachel i'm sorry..
I think it's great what you offered..you seem to be a reall nice person..

[mnewco]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Ahhh! One breeding male and one breeding female would immediately box you in, in your breeding program, in other words, it would cause you to inbreed, not a good idea and if you're breeding to improve the breed, you can repeat a breeding and not get the same results.....

How do you figure it would be inbreeding? There is no way I would breed a sister and brother of father and daughter, or mother and son. What I am saying is you get two dogs from different lines and breed them maybe once every 2 or 3 years so the female does not get all breeded out to the point she is unhealthy. That's all.

[mjharpst]

Originally Posted by YorkieShadow

Well I have been here on YT awhile now im an oldie and I have to agree with most of the newbies sorry.
I think its great to get the word out about puppy mills. they need to be stopped. closed down, but this thread is not the place for it. I mean come on lets inform her tell her about what APRI Is then leave it at that. This thread was about her wanting to help people that wanted help with naming their Yorkies. and I think its great that she offered her help.

Oh I completely agree that this thread has taken a turn away from how it was started and what it was about, but I also think that everything that was stated was facts about something the OP started- maybe off topic but not completely off the thread starter.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by mnewco

How do you figure it would be inbreeding? There is no way I would breed a sister and brother of father and daughter, or mother and son. What I am saying is you get two dogs from different lines and breed them maybe once every 2 or 3 years so the female does not get all breeded out to the point she is unhealthy. That's all.

Ok! you do that, then who would you breed the offspring to?

To have any type of a breeding program the minimum you could have is maybe 3 females and 1 male......at the very minimum. The only time you should go outside your lines is when you get too close in your breeding program. Once you've set your type and line, and know that you are breeding genetically sound dogs, you need to stick with line breeding. Everytime you outcross on your lines you take the risk of bringing in faults and genetic defects......

As a breeder/exhibitor what you suggest is not plausable....

[QuickSilver]

Mardelin, if that's the case, how are they doing it in the UK? Inbred offspring are no longer recognized by the UKC, if I understand correctly.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I personally think some of the young dogs need to take the cotton out of their ears and put it in their mouths.

[IHeartSnS]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i very much appreciate your approach here, this comment came across to me as sincere, kind and honest all the same time.

i know you are very passionate about stopping puppy mills and i hope someday that i might even be able to join you in that cause. i don't blame you one bit for wanting to stop them, they are horrible and terrible things, but i also want others to realize that while i might be a bit naive and new to the world of buying puppies, i'm not trying to support puppy mills. i have learned a lot from you all on YT and i have also had times that i felt i did nothing more than get stressed out over a little too much drama. it goes both ways, learn something, get treated badly, learn something else from another person. take the good with the bad. i did want to mention this though about educating people and how to come across to get your point to be taken...

as nancy has done with this post, i think all posts and informative comments should be much the same:

i'm sure glad for all the good information and without YT there are plenty of things i wouldn't have known about yorkies. i do appreciate that very much and i also love the kindness that some people have shown on here with sending clothing for nothing and being so sweet. i just hope that over time they will learn that i'm not a bad person and i only strike back when my tail gets stepped on if someone wants to give information more power to them, but when it's not presented as a take it or leave or not presented kindly to me, i am probably going to get offended and naturally get a little defensive rather than hear them out...it's pure human nature.

when educating someone, if the information is presented in a kind, encouraging, way it is always absorbed and taken into consideration, when info is presented in a condescending or somewhat heated or a little harsh manner, even when it's not intended to be that way, if it sounds that way to the reader or hearer, it makes the person defensive, shut down, close off, and not want to hear one more word that the person with the info has to say.

it's the same way with my husband, if i tell him that he needs to change something and i'm coming at him with my claws out, he won't listen to my concerns or feelings he'll shut down emotionally and go into defensive mode (which in turn pisses me off the same way my defensiveness pisses you guys off)

if i go at it with love and kindness he always sees the need for the change and takes my suggestion to heart and actually tries to please me and do what i asked of him in some form, or at least wants to discuss the matter if he doesn't agree without lashing back out at me.

i just want us all to learn to educate each other and help each other out in a little bit more tactful manner, i know that most of you have been very tactful from the beginning, but if people say that was a little harsh, there is a reason they have said that, so don't go on the defensive back at them and tell them that you are only being honest with them when they feel attacked. if someone gets defensive and feels beaten up, apologize and try to rephrase what you meant to say so they are more willing to accept it. otherwise you create a rift between your info and their brain and they will never open up to it and learn what you so much desire for them to learn.

tactfulness goes a long way, especially on a forum that you cannot see or hear people when they talk, it's all reading...so re read your posts and make sure what is said comes across kindly and cannot be taken the wrong way...

we deal with this all the time in our jobs with email and texting as the new way to communicate. it's wonderful how fast and easy and convenient it is to email or text, but we're missing the key link to communication, the non verbal behavior of the person speaking and the inflections and tone of voice, it's hard to tell sometimes how a person is sounding when you read their thoughts rather than hear them speak their mind.

this has all been a big dramatic mess that shouldn't have ever happened, but i hope the lessons learned are not only that puppy mills suck and shouldn't be supported (which i will not be by registering APRI) but that also we have to learn some kindness on YT and talk to each other with a little more tact in order to get the point across and to actually get through to a person we desperately want to educate

I know I'm a little late here, I'm working between reading and didn't read the whole thread before I posted my above post, but it sounds like Rachel already summed up what I said. That's what I get for being impatient

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Mardelin, if that's the case, how are they doing it in the UK? Inbred offspring are no longer recognized by the UKC, if I understand correctly.

I guess you'd have to ask someone in the UK, the UK has other European countries to turn to, as we do here........there is a difference between line breeding and inbreeding.....and please don't make me explain it tonight....I took many courses and went to many seminars to understand it.....Dr' Carmen Battaglia has a wonderful course in breeding for a better dog....

I'm not saying that one doesn't have to occassionally go outside their line to avoid inbreeding, what I'm saying is that when you do, you have the probability of bringing in genetic faults/defects that you may not care to. Breeding is a risk, no matter how you look at it. But, one has to prepare themselves with knowledge before one embarks on that journey.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by mnewco

Debra,

It needs to be put to a rest. I take it personal because I am tired of reading the posts that you all make when I read her threads. It is tiring.

I do not know what you are talking about. You are tired of reading posts "who all makes" when you read her threads? The last time I responded to one of her threads, it was very positive and complimentary. I have no feud going with her. Are you maybe confusing the fact that you and I were on opposite sides of an issue not too long ago? That has nothing to do with this thread.

Have you even read this whole thread? A lot of good has come from it. There has been a lot of information relayed to people who appreciate it. The OP has gone through a gamut of emotions in the thread but even she has appreciated some of the information. She did ask questions about registries btw which I answered.

I think the course of this thread was a natural progression of ideas that stemmed from her posts. I think the thread remained pretty civil for the most part. You are entitled to your opinion too. But.....
It is not encouraged to elect yourself the forum police and tell others what they may or may not address. If is is so tiring for you, you have the option of putting anyone (especially me) on ignore or just not opening the thread. Maybe those options would help you out a bit and let you be less tired.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by mnewco

Nancy,

Please don't bring up puppy mill breeders again to insult Rachel. I think she has had enough of this.

This is not what the thread is about. She is offering to help those that want to find a nice name for their dog. Doesn't matter where they are registered. She is not asking about registries. Just making an offer.

I feel that we all need to get off her back about where she purchased her puppy. I personally am tired of reading about it everytime I read one of her threads. This is a good way to chase a member off the forum and that is not nice. I think you owe her an apology. I honest to God think that a lot of them members want her to leave and that is why this subject is brought up so often to her.

She bought the dog and she is not giving it back and now it is time to get over it. I have and I have moved on.

End of subject.

WHAT!?!?!?!?!? nancy owes an apology!? haha...you are NOT funny, in fact, you are rude.

well, i think you need to get your head out of where it doesn't belong.
your suggestion is ridiculous. if you are tired of reading something. STOP. no one is forcing you to.

there are a lot of knowledgeable people on YT, and i am thankful that they don't 'get over it' and that they continue to share their wealth of knowledge.

now, stop reading things that bother you, and don't make ridiculous suggestions. thank you.

[mnewco]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Ok! you do that, then who would you breed the offspring to?

To have any type of a breeding program the minimum you could have is maybe 3 females and 1 male......at the very minimum. The only time you should go outside your lines is when you get too close in your breeding program. Once you've set your type and line, and know that you are breeding genetically sound dogs, you need to stick with line breeding. Everytime you outcross on your lines you take the risk of bringing in faults and genetic defects......

As a breeder/exhibitor what you suggest is not plausable....

Mardilin...You are not listening to what I am saying....I said One male and one female. You breed them two, sell the puppies. I would have no intentions of breeding ANY of the offspring. I would want them all gone. Then I would breed the male and female 2 or 3 years in the future and do it all over again.

I would have no need to breed any of the offspring. I already have one of the best lines for Samoyeds right now. I just need and want a line that is as great as hers and a male that I want to breed for the better of the breed that he too has a great line so I can breed an even better line. Isn't that the point??? Breeders breeding to improve the breed instead of breeding just for money?

[MizMaRLeysMoM86]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

WHAT!?!?!?!?!? nancy owes an apology!? haha...you are NOT funny, in fact, you are rude.

well, i think you need to get your head out of where it doesn't belong.
your suggestion is ridiculous. if you are tired of reading something. STOP. no one is forcing you to.

there are a lot of knowledgeable people on YT, and i am thankful that they don't 'get over it' and that they continue to share their wealth of knowledge.

now, stop reading things that bother you, and don't make ridiculous suggestions. thank you.

You took the words right out of my mouth... I hate when people tell us how sick they are of reading something... STOP COMING TO THE THREAD! As long as no rules are being broken and things are civil , which they have been, keep the advice coming!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by mnewco

Mardilin...You are not listening to what I am saying....I said One male and one female. You breed them two, sell the puppies. I would have no intentions of breeding ANY of the offspring. I would want them all gone. Then I would breed the male and female 2 or 3 years in the future and do it all over again.

I would have no need to breed any of the offspring. I already have one of the best lines for Samoyeds right now. I just need and want a line that is as great as hers and a male that I want to breed for the better of the breed that he too has a great line so I can breed an even better line. Isn't that the point??? Breeders breeding to improve the breed instead of breeding just for money?

That is not a breeding program. That is just doing the same thing over and over. What improvement, what progress, would you be making? I do not understand at all. You are seriously saying all breeding programs should have just one male and one female?