An Offer you couldn't refuse ;)

[Cerise]

I guess I have a lot to learn. I will read more into posts and do some serious research about the breeding business and etc. There is so much information and so many breeder scams that if you are not educated and in the mix you are vulnerable. I do believe you can get a wonderful pet without going to top notch breeders but I also realize you can end up with a boat load of problems that ruin the pet/owner relationship and the will to keep them. I want a healthy pet who is socialized properly and from what I've been reading since I've joined this site...she won't be a quick nor cheap find. And I and happy with that fact.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Cerise

WOW...I was thinking the same thing.

that's the truth too...

it's no wonder my husband and i keep fighting for what i put up with online all day, i'm probably a ball of nerves and stress inside...my first week with Sadie was horrible and i realized it was because i was all stressed out from some of these threads and taking it home to her and making her nutts.

my husband and i have been really on edge with each other as well and i know that it's mostly related to the stress with work and this drama on here.

i can't let this crap affect my marriage and my life...i think i'm going to just have to refrain from trying to post anything at all, happy, sad, or indifferent.

i just can't say anything without a huge war it seems and i'm not the one causing the drama or the problem here but i'm the bigger person because i'll pull myself out of this fight...

WHITE FLAGS WHITE FLAGS

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

I don't support puppy mills or bad breeders, where on earth you all got that into your heads i have no clue. i'm AGREE with you about protecting the poor dogs that get put into places like that. now why you continually bother me about puppy mills i cannot for the life of me figure out. my puppy was not from one, and i don't support pet stores or puppy mills. i never said i support APRI, but i can say that i do support the little guy. there is no reason that someone can't breed dogs because they like puppies and they enjoy the feeling they get when they have new little lives and they make people happy by providing these cute wiggly things to them. i do support the small town puppy breeders that have very nice, clean facilities and take great pride and care into the dogs that they breed. i don't think you have to register AKC to be a "responsible" breeder because i don't think the registry matters one bit in the health and well being of the puppy. i wish you all would realize that no one on this forum SUPPORTS puppy mills. so by constantly commenting on every little thing posted that you somehow link back to this topic, you are actually making people very angry and causing them to leave this forum forever. i'm glad i have a little backbone and have learned to just deal with you and pretty much ignore you, but you still constantly are the fly in my soup here.

WOW, I sure wish these people were at the pounds, animal control and humane society to see the pile of dead dogs and cats because of the surplus pets we have in this country. I am sorry but dogs are not product and just because someone likes warm and fuzzy, animals are dying. Millions every year. I wish these same people would help save animals rather than making $$$ off of them. You might want to start driving around your state and see how some of these dogs are living and soon winter is coming.
I also have to disagree with you in regards to "stop talking about puppy mills" because I see it all the time on YT where members still go and buy dogs from pet stores. The american public does not have a clue that this is going on. As long as dogs have to live in this misery then I will continue to talk about it along with many other members on YT. Your state is one of the worse in the nation and it is going to take the citizens of your state to change the laws.

Puppymills - Information about puppy mills and how to shut them down.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

It happens both ways; Newbies asking questions and don't like the answers they get from all, even if the answer is offered softly. They will come back and rip apart the person offering the help. It's happend within the last few days.

However, to the OP, how wonderful that you have offered your services to those that want a registered name. But, it was mentioned that Registers are a means for breeders to research pedigrees. Therefore, a breeders Kennel name should be listed upfront and the name you have chosen for the pup. Usually the name you've chosen for the pup references a breeders certain, line....then a call name is given, completely different from the registered name.

i think it's just all sorts of screwed up due to the APRI because they have this policy that the new owner chooses the registered name and i'm sure with AKC the kennel chooses the full length name bases on the lineage of the dog.

all i know is that Sadie's mom was CJ's Mickey's Maiden and sire was Little Boy Blue...

i don't like either one so i redid it on my own....

small question for those who know lots about AKC stuff...how do dogs get to be AKC if both parents have to be AKC to be included...like how did the first dogs get registered when it all started and how do we know that the first dogs registered were 100% pure blooded...it all doesn't make much sense to me why can't all dogs that meet the standard or are pure bred become AKC dogs if the owner wants them to be??? i don't get it

oh and i might add the ONLY reason i thought about registering at all was that i'm really curious to see the other names of her pedigree for scrapbooking purposes and curiosity and registering is the only way to obtain the pedigree from them....my bad for wanting to know too much i guess.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Cerise

I guess I have a lot to learn. I will read more into posts and do some serious research about the breeding business and etc. There is so much information and so many breeder scams that if you are not educated and in the mix you are vulnerable. I do believe you can get a wonderful pet without going to top notch breeders but I also realize you can end up with a boat load of problems that ruin the pet/owner relationship and the will to keep them. I want a healthy pet who is socialized properly and from what I've been reading since I've joined this site...she won't be a quick nor cheap find. And I and happy with that fact.

Some people are under the misconception that if you go to a top notch breeder that you will pay more. Not so, you'll be amazed....couple of reasons why, they do not breed to sell puppies, they breed for themselves first. Others are breeding only to fulfill a pet market and wanting to make a buck....

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by red98vett

No offense....talking about puppy mills is nothing close to drama posting. It's a horrible problem and not enough people know what they are.

I can't tell you how many people I've talked to thru the years had no idea what a puppy mill is until they joined sites like this. Even me.

I found out 15 years ago only because I read it on a forum and found out that my 1st dog Tessa (cocker spaniel) was actually a puppy mill puppy. I learned my lesson and read everything I could about them ...and to this day - support ANYONE who speaks out against them. It can't be said enough.

Even on my website I have a page dedicated to abuse of animals with links to sites that are really hard to see but harsh reality. Puppy Mills need to be stopped. The same with pet stores that sell puppies - i.e. PETLAND. Many people have no idea Petland is the biggest customer of puppy mills.

Registries such as the one you're speaking about are only about making money any way they can.... which includes registering puppy mill dogs. I know lots of people have APRI registered dogs but I highly doubt they intended to support puppy mills. You have a chance to make a choice knowing this in advance.

Do you remember when Oprah spoke out and how shocked people were and this was just a couple of years ago. The public does not like to know about these horrible conditions many animals live in..so choose to ignore it. Sad..

[JPop & Taz 2]

Wow! I learn something new everyday on this site! I have 6 yorkies.....3 are APRI, 2 are AKC, and 1, yet to be registered, will be CKC. My 3 oldest are the APRI, and if I had known then what I know now, they would not be registered at all. I have to admit, when I first read Nancy's post, I was a little shocked......thinking, man, she's coming on a little strong! But, the more I read, the more I understood. I had no idea APRI supported puppy mills! I guess we live & learn, huh? BTW, I appreciate all the information I get from this site. And to OP......I love your baby's name!

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

WOW, I sure wish these people were at the pounds, animal control and humane society to see the pile of dead dogs and cats because of the surplus pets we have in this country. I am sorry but dogs are not product and just because someone likes warm and fuzzy, animals are dying. Millions every year. I wish these same people would help save animals rather than making $$$ off of them. You might want to start driving around your state and see how some of these dogs are living and soon winter is coming.
I also have to disagree with you in regards to "stop talking about puppy mills" because I see it all the time on YT where members still go and buy dogs from pet stores. The american public does not have a clue that this is going on. As long as dogs have to live in this misery then I will continue to talk about it along with many other members on YT. Your state is one of the worse in the nation and it is going to take the citizens of your state to change the laws.

Puppymills - Information about puppy mills and how to shut them down.

have you ever noticed when looking at those so called humane societies and pounds that almost NONE of the dogs in them are purebred...they are almost all mutts!???!!??

it's not the breeders who are putting dogs in pounds, it's the owners who either get a dog that isn't right for their lifestyle, that they don't have the time, money or patience to train properly, or the farm dogs that run free and go into the neighbors yard and breeds their dog and then you have mutt puppies that no one wants because people WANT pure breds. breeders no matter how they breed are able to sell ALL of their puppies so long as they are healthy and being taken care of in a nice facility. people want the pure bred dogs, they want the toy dogs mostly and they want them fast and for a lot less money than the $1000++ that some people pay for them.

so though i don't condone the inhumane breeding of dogs, and i do support people who breed responsibly (which the people i was talking about do) i also know that pound puppies are not there because of a breeder, they are there because of the owners

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Cerise

I guess I have a lot to learn. I will read more into posts and do some serious research about the breeding business and etc. There is so much information and so many breeder scams that if you are not educated and in the mix you are vulnerable. I do believe you can get a wonderful pet without going to top notch breeders but I also realize you can end up with a boat load of problems that ruin the pet/owner relationship and the will to keep them. I want a healthy pet who is socialized properly and from what I've been reading since I've joined this site...she won't be a quick nor cheap find. And I and happy with that fact.

All the best to you ! What a good post you just did.

There are alot of people here that may be able to help you in your search and you are so right....the scams are out there in full force so doing 'research' is the smart way to find a healthy yorkie.

Mardelin is right - you can find a good breeder without the outrageous price just by taking your time and making contacts.

There are so many people that buy on impulse and like Cindy (livingdustmops) just said... even at pet stores who get their puppies from Mills. There are very few pet stores that actually buy from a breeder and in my opinion - any 'breeder' that sells to a pet store doesn't deserve to be called a BREEDER.

RachelandSadie...you may not like the way this thread turned but in all honesty - the information is good information and for others reading - they may learn something just by the replies you received.

[lmperez]

I have worked with rescues and I would hate the idea of anyone supporting puppy mills. There is another way that people with a purebred PET can still register their dog and support legitamate registries like the AKC and that is by obtaining ILP #.... Here is the info taken off the AKC website.

Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege
Giving all purebred dogs a chance to compete

</STRONG>Note: A fee of $10 was instituted, effective January 1, 2003, for Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege transfers or duplicate certificates. For more information contact PAL@akc.org.

The AKC, PAL/ILP and You
Many people have discovered the fun of teaming up with their dogs and competing in AKC Events. But, not all of those wonderful canine athletes that you see at these events are registered with the AKC. Some might be enrolled in the AKC's Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP), a program that allows unregistered dogs of registrable breeds to compete in AKC Performance and Companion Events, also 41 specific breeds in the FSS® Program that are eligible for Companion Events.

If you have a purebred dog that cannot be registered with the AKC and have a desire to see what your dog can do in real competition, a PAL/ILP number is your ticket to the world of AKC events and clubs!

Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP): The program that provides purebred dogs a second chance.
There are various reasons why a purebred dog might not be eligible for registration. The dog may be the product of an unregistered litter, or have unregistered parents. The dog's papers may have been withheld by its breeder or lost by its owner. Sometimes, it is the dog itself that was "lost." There are many dogs enrolled in the PAL/ILP program after they have been surrendered or abandoned, then adopted by new owners from animal shelters or purebred rescue groups. The PAL/ILP program allows the dog and owner a second chance at discovering the rewards of participating in AKC events.

What AKC events may a PAL/ILP dog Participate in?
The Purebred Alternative Listing Program/Indefinite Listing Privilege (PAL/ILP) is designed to allow dogs to participate in AKC Companion and Performance Events. The AKC Events that a PAL/ILP dog can participate in are:
Agility Trials (All Breeds)
Earthdog Trials (Small Terriers and Dachshunds)
Herding Tests and Trials ( Herding Breeds, Rottweilers and Samoyeds)
Hunt Tests (Most Sporting Breeds and Standard Poodles)
Junior Showmanship (All Breeds)
Lure Coursing (Sighthounds)
Obedience Trials (All Breeds)
Rally Trials (All Breeds)
Tracking Tests (All Breeds)
Once enrolled in the PAL/ILP program, entering AKC events is as easy as with a registrable dog. The only difference is that instead of an AKC registration number, you would list the dog's PAL/ILP number on the Entry form.

How can you apply for a PAL/ILP number?
Applications for enrollment into the Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege can be downloaded or by emailing PAL@akc.org. When requesting a form via email please include your name and current mailing address. Remember, PAL/ILP numbers can only be issused to AKC registrable breeds.

The following must be submitted with a completed PAL/ILP application:
Two recent and clear color photographs of the dog;

<UL>one full front view showing the facial characteristics of the dog;

one view showing the full side profile of the dog standing on a flat surface (not grass).
</UL>
(ALL PHOTOS SHOULD BE TAKEN AT EYE LEVEL IN A STANDING POSITION,
INCLUDE THE WHOLE DOG IN THE PHOTO. DO NOT SHOOT DOWN ON THE DOG.)


Proof from a veterinarian that the dog has been spayed/neutered.


A non-refundable $35.00 application fee.
Once compiled, the completed PAL/ILP application along with the items listed above should be mailed to:

The American Kennel Club/PAL/ILP
PO Box 900059
Raleigh, NC 27675-9059

Enrollment in the Purebred Alternative Listing/Indefinite Listing Privilege program is not to be construed as an alternative form of registration, but rather, as a listing so that dogs who are ineligible for AKC registration may participate in AKC Companion and Performance Events. A PAL/ILP may be cancelled for cause.

For more information or questions about the PAL/ILP program contact PAL@akc.org.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

have you ever noticed when looking at those so called humane societies and pounds that almost NONE of the dogs in them are purebred...they are almost all mutts!???!!??

it's not the breeders who are putting dogs in pounds, it's the owners who either get a dog that isn't right for their lifestyle, that they don't have the time, money or patience to train properly, or the farm dogs that run free and go into the neighbors yard and breeds their dog and then you have mutt puppies that no one wants because people WANT pure breds. breeders no matter how they breed are able to sell ALL of their puppies so long as they are healthy and being taken care of in a nice facility. people want the pure bred dogs, they want the toy dogs mostly and they want them fast and for a lot less money than the $1000++ that some people pay for them.

so though i don't condone the inhumane breeding of dogs, and i do support people who breed responsibly (which the people i was talking about do) i also know that pound puppies are not there because of a breeder, they are there because of the owners

Your wrong there are alot of purebreds in shelters. Ours right now even have 2 yorkies. Because of overbreeding pure breds are in shelters all the time. There are threads in the rescue section all the time about a yorkie in a kill shelter

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by JPop & Taz 2

Wow! I learn something new everyday on this site! I have 6 yorkies.....3 are APRI, 2 are AKC, and 1, yet to be registered, will be CKC. My 3 oldest are the APRI, and if I had known then what I know now, they would not be registered at all. I have to admit, when I first read Nancy's post, I was a little shocked......thinking, man, she's coming on a little strong! But, the more I read, the more I understood. I had no idea APRI supported puppy mills! I guess we live & learn, huh? BTW, I appreciate all the information I get from this site. And to OP......I love your baby's name!

now we're talkin ! Good post !!!

I did say in an earlier post (#29) that many really don't know exactly what the APRI registry does. Which makes threads like this even better because we never stop learning.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

that's the truth too...

it's no wonder my husband and i keep fighting for what i put up with online all day, i'm probably a ball of nerves and stress inside...my first week with Sadie was horrible and i realized it was because i was all stressed out from some of these threads and taking it home to her and making her nutts.

my husband and i have been really on edge with each other as well and i know that it's mostly related to the stress with work and this drama on here.

i can't let this crap affect my marriage and my life...i think i'm going to just have to refrain from trying to post anything at all, happy, sad, or indifferent.

i just can't say anything without a huge war it seems and i'm not the one causing the drama or the problem here but i'm the bigger person because i'll pull myself out of this fight...

WHITE FLAGS WHITE FLAGS

Now I have to jump in and have my say about all of this too. Most YT members have come to this board because of the love of the Yorkie breed and I believe that is the reason that you came as well. If I am not mistaken you were in the market to add a puppy to your home. When you were told that the place that you were purchasing your new puppy from was a mill you dug your feet and and moved forward anyway, not taking the advice from VERY EXPERIENCED members of this forum. When you were told that she was way too young to be taken from her mother, you moved forward and brought her home anyway. When you began to have issues with behavior you cam for advice and rejected what was offered. Now you have decided to register your puppy with a KNOWN puppy mill registry and expect everyone to just sit back and not become frustrated with what you are saying and posting to this forum?

You have been given VERY SOUND advice over and over again and your response is always the same. You have refused all help, concern and KNOWLEDGE that has been offered to you. IMO you have shown a great deal of lack disrespect to the members that have offered their vast array of knowledge. It is very sad to see that your mind is not open to what is being offered to you. This is the reason there is so much frustration shown by members here with your posts. IMO you seem to continue to be blinded by your own misguided and uneducated opinions of puppymills, breeding and breeders, now registries.

Knowledge is a very powerful tool that you are turning your back when you do not like the responses that you have received to your posts. You need to open your mind and LISTEN to what is being said to you. Once you begin to listen your knowledge will GROW! Once your knowledge grows you will become UNDERSTAND and then become a vocal ADVOCATE for what we are all trying to offer and teach you.

No one is trying to ruin your fun but your ideas and thoughts are not at the level of so many knowledgeable members of this community. If you take offense to everything that is said you will never be able to achieve the knowledge to make a change for the good. AND that is what YT is really all about!

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by chachi

Your wrong there are alot of purebreds in shelters. Ours right now even have 2 yorkies. Because of overbreeding pure breds are in shelters all the time. There are threads in the rescue section all the time about a yorkie in a kill shelter

Yup. Same in Houston. I have one near me that I give food and 'extra's to and have seen many small dogs....yorkies - maltese and also weiner doggies and of course the ever cute 'mutts' (I really don't like that word)

I haven't been in a while because it bothered me so much....

It's so so sad to see ANY dog in jail waiting for a home or to be put to sleep. If people realized before they get a pet that it's a life committment and thought it thru....maybe the problem would subside but there are just too many people who think of pets as disposable ....then there are the so called breeders in it for profit but have NO CLUE that they're just adding to an already very overpopulated pet problem.

[RachelandSadie]

Wow! I learn something new everyday on this site! I have 6 yorkies.....3 are APRI, 2 are AKC, and 1, yet to be registered, will be CKC. My 3 oldest are the APRI, and if I had known then what I know now, they would not be registered at all. I have to admit, when I first read Nancy's post, I was a little shocked......thinking, man, she's coming on a little strong! But, the more I read, the more I understood. I had no idea APRI supported puppy mills! I guess we live & learn, huh? BTW, I appreciate all the information I get from this site. And to OP......I love your baby's name!

thanks