An Offer you couldn't refuse ;)

[Ladymom]

This is what the AKC has to say:

What can a breeder do to properly socialize each pup? The starting point is for the litter to be raised within a home environment with frequent human contact, rather than secluded in the yard or a kennel. This is the first step in ensuring that the pups will be prepared for life in a household, with all the sounds, smells, and hustle-and-bustle that this entails.

Some breeders will move a litter from room to room on progressive weeks, to change the scene and familiarize the pups with such varied sounds as those of the dishwasher, television, and washer-dryer. Others like to situate the puppy pen near the home’s center of activity, so the pups are exposed to comings and goings and hear a variety of human voices.

American Kennel Club - AKC eNewsletter

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

very well said, that was the point i was trying to make with the law on keeping them in the home as well, realistically you cannot pass a law like that because it would be unreasonable for larger breed dogs to be in the house and you cannot split it into toy breeds in home and large breeds in kennels...just doesn't make sense to do so.

limiting the dogs could be done at a reasonable number, i think 10 or so is a good number depending upon if you have staff to help with them or if you raise them yourselves, it's all situational really.

While common sense tells you how many dogs you can care for, I have a problem with government dictating what I can do in my home, as long as my dogs are well cared for. But, maybe laws should be put place as to how many litters you can have , predicated on the number of pups, kind of like China telling how many children you can have.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I guess you'd have to ask someone in the UK, the UK has other European countries to turn to, as we do here........there is a difference between line breeding and inbreeding.....and please don't make me explain it tonight....I took many courses and went to many seminars to understand it.....Dr' Carmen Battaglia has a wonderful course in breeding for a better dog....

I'm not saying that one doesn't have to occassionally go outside their line to avoid inbreeding, what I'm saying is that when you do, you have the probability of bringing in genetic faults/defects that you may not care to. Breeding is a risk, no matter how you look at it. But, one has to prepare themselves with knowledge before one embarks on that journey.

now here is a person that sounds like they know what they are talking about to me i know nothing about breeding dogs, and i don't care to, but it sounds like this person has done their research and for them!!

[mnewco]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

People do vote for the laws. Do you vote? Most of the time when I vote for people, I also get to vote for amendments, referendums, etc... We vote for the House and Senate members and they vote on bills to make into law. They are people. I do not know what you mean by "It is up the states." States do not make laws. People do. There are state laws and national laws. But people elect people who pass the bills and make them law. You are really reaching at things to argue with me about. I think it is showing that you came here intent to stir a pot, no matter what was cooking.

Debra,

You can look at it anyway you want to. But I am now going to add you and many more members here on my ignore list so I won't have to read anything you respond to.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

While common sense tells you how many dogs you can care for, I have a problem with government dictating what I can do in my home, as long as my dogs are well cared for. But, maybe laws should be put place as to how many litters you can have , predicated on the number of pups, kind of like China telling how many children you can have.

The problem is that many people do not care for their pups properly. I totally agree with you about the government and numbers.
What bugs me is that when you have proof something is awry in a home and report it, nothing gets done!
I know of a hoarder who has been reported many times to no avail. The authorities all want what they call "first hand evidence". Because of the laws, they cannot go and look. Not sure what they mean by first hand evidence as much was given....I think they are just afraid to do anything because they are not backed by laws that protect animals.
The SPCA went there, but AFTER making an appointment to see the home (DUH)..

[Rerun201]

Originally Posted by chachi

She is the same newbie who encourages a certain breeder to breed tinies because she got one from her so I can see why she wouldnt be concerned where Rachel got her puppy and the registry

Ok, now it makes more sense. Thanks for that...and for your wisdom that has come with taking the time to learn

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

This is what the AKC has to say:

What can a breeder do to properly socialize each pup? The starting point is for the litter to be raised within a home environment with frequent human contact, rather than secluded in the yard or a kennel. This is the first step in ensuring that the pups will be prepared for life in a household, with all the sounds, smells, and hustle-and-bustle that this entails.

Some breeders will move a litter from room to room on progressive weeks, to change the scene and familiarize the pups with such varied sounds as those of the dishwasher, television, and washer-dryer. Others like to situate the puppy pen near the home’s center of activity, so the pups are exposed to comings and goings and hear a variety of human voices.

American Kennel Club - AKC eNewsletter

good information here!!

[rebeccag]

Originally Posted by mnewco

Nancy,

Please don't bring up puppy mill breeders again to insult Rachel. I think she has had enough of this.

This is not what the thread is about. She is offering to help those that want to find a nice name for their dog. Doesn't matter where they are registered. She is not asking about registries. Just making an offer.

I feel that we all need to get off her back about where she purchased her puppy. I personally am tired of reading about it everytime I read one of her threads. This is a good way to chase a member off the forum and that is not nice. I think you owe her an apology. I honest to God think that a lot of them members want her to leave and that is why this subject is brought up so often to her.

She bought the dog and she is not giving it back and now it is time to get over it. I have and I have moved on.

End of subject.

I went to bed last night and woke up to, I don't know, maybe 5 more pages...yikes! Anyway, can't figure out why you would deter someone from giving valuable information away. You (or Rachel for that matter) can't dictate to Nancy what you would and would not like to read. There are many people interested in the subject of puppy mills and how it relates to registries. I haven't caught up with everything on this thread and I'm not sure I'm going to but I am sure I'm not the only one interested in the topic. It didn't come out of left field...Rachel included the registry in her original post...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

good information here!!

YTCA Breeders are also bound by a Code of Ethics and Conduct that states pretty much the same thing.....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

The problem is that many people do not care for their pups properly. I totally agree with you about the government and numbers.
What bugs me is that when you have proof something is awry in a home and report it, nothing gets done!
I know of a hoarder who has been reported many times to no avail. The authorities all want what they call "first hand evidence". Because of the laws, they cannot go and look. Not sure what they mean by first hand evidence as much was given....I think they are just afraid to do anything because they are not backed by laws that protect animals.
The SPCA went there, but AFTER making an appointment to see the home (DUH)..

We all know that the system is broke.....and any time a law is put into place that they think will stop the Miller, Pet Stores, Wholesales Market and BYBers, the only thing it does is restrict the Reputable Breeder......They haven't realized that the aforementioned people have the finacial resoures to get around these laws....and all the law does is boost up the euthinization numbers.

I'm looking for a article that explains the Canadian System and it works......When and if I find it in my e-mails....I'll share. The sad thing is that it has been shared with local governments in the states....and they aren't buying it.

[joesmom]

I truly believe that this thread has run it's course and stirred enough emotion's, but once long time standing members who want nothing more but to help and educate are being disrespected It's time to close the thread!
JMO

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by joesmom

I truly believe that this thread has run it's course and stirred enough emotion's, but once long time standing members who want nothing more but to help and educate are being disrespected It's time to close the thread!
JMO

Since many of the respected members have been put onto someone ignore list we can no longer be disrespected for our informative posts.

FYI~there are 2 ways that a post can be closed. The OPer needs to PM administration with their request or if it has been decided that adm needs to step in and close it.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by joesmom

I truly believe that this thread has run it's course and stirred enough emotion's, but once long time standing members who want nothing more but to help and educate are being disrespected It's time to close the thread!
JMO

i don't think anyone has disrespected the older members! everyone has a right to say what they want to say and the same way that the older members have a right to share their knowledge and opinions, the newbie members have a right to say that they don't agree with the approach taken. it's all part of free speech. i'm not complaining anymore and i explained why i was upset to begin with, so i don't know why we are still having the battle of who can say what....

SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY, SAY WHAT YOU NEED TO SAY!!!

only sing the line 36 times total and you have a John Mayer song!



And i want to add that without SOME of the comments made my older posters, i woudn't have learned as much as i have either, there were plenty of great pieces of advice and information in this thread, i don't think it needs closing because it didn't get nearly as heated as others on this forum have in the past....thanks for the info guys!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

very well said, that was the point i was trying to make with the law on keeping them in the home as well, realistically you cannot pass a law like that because it would be unreasonable for larger breed dogs to be in the house and you cannot split it into toy breeds in home and large breeds in kennels...just doesn't make sense to do so.
.

Morning Rachel -- I might not have been as clear as I could have in my post. I was making two separate points. I started off with saying "I personally would not want to have more dogs than I could have in my home." This was not part of either of the proposed pieces of legislature I listed. This is just me with my dogs. I don't have large outdoor dogs, so I prefer to keep mine in my home where they can always be socialized and part of the family. I would feel entirely different with St. Bernards I am sure!

I went on to say, "But I know there are many outdoor kennel set ups that are humane and sanitary, where they let the dogs out for daily exercise and personal time with people. " and then listed the laws in the works that go along these lines.

I agree wholeheartedly, that they could not make a law saying all dogs had to be kept in the home. Some dogs would be abused by that treatment and need their outdoor space. Hope that clears up my previous post for you and -- look we are agreeing on topic again.

If you have time, read the bills I mentioned and see if you could support them. If so, I have a post in the AnimalPrtection and Welfare forum that tells more how to help get them passed.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Morning Rachel -- I might not have been as clear as I could have in my post. I was making two separate points. I started off with saying "I personally would not want to have more dogs than I could have in my home." This was not part of either of the proposed pieces of legislature I listed. This is just me with my dogs. I don't have large outdoor dogs, so I prefer to keep mine in my home where they can always be socialized and part of the family. I would feel entirely different with St. Bernards I am sure!

I went on to say, "But I know there are many outdoor kennel set ups that are humane and sanitary, where they let the dogs out for daily exercise and personal time with people. " and then listed the laws in the works that go along these lines.

I agree wholeheartedly, that they could not make a law saying all dogs had to be kept in the home. Some dogs would be abused by that treatment and need their outdoor space. Hope that clears up my previous post for you and -- look we are agreeing on topic again.

If you have time, read the bills I mentioned and see if you could support them. If so, I have a post in the AnimalPrtection and Welfare forum that tells more how to help get them passed.

Yup we did agree!! i hope you aren't upset with me because i haven't been upset with any of your posts that i can think of so from my end we're still good with each other

i will have a look at those if i can find them.