"Why We Euthanize"---A Good Article

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by simonandhallie

If you don't like PETA or the Humane Society I really could care less, the point of the article is about euthanasia and if you want to argue that ANY of those dogs would have been better off living with those injuries.......bring it!

OK...here it is . If the numbers are correct, I can't see how anyone can justify that much killing. It truly is beyond me how, even considering the 'worst of the worst', that only 7 out of over 2,000 dogs could have been saved. Maybe PETA can justify a higher than average kill rate, but to save only 7 out of over 2,000?? I was just kidding about the arguing but I just can't imagine any scenario where such a high kill rate is justified. I will keep an open mind if you can explain this.

[Nikki+2]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Yes, I did read the article. Except for the use of 'PETA', this could have been written by any number of shelter workers. Is there something in particular you wanted to draw my attention to? Also, sorry if you found my response difficult to read. I've never responded to a color coded post before. I would add that mis-information is being put out by all the mentioned organizations...PETA, HSUS and CCF. What one thinks of any of these groups doesn't make their statements any more or less true. As I mentioned in my first post, I think anyone should research, pro and con, any of these groups if they wish to support them. I try to keep an open mind and it isn't mandatory for me to support (or not) any group to either accept or reject their statements.

Purple: Wow, really? Never? Well gosh, I feel pretty special then.

Pink: I don't know how you form your opinions but I research before I form mine. If an organization is truthful and supports my views then I like them. If they lie then I don't. Therefore there isn't an instance where what I think doesn't make something true or not.

If that's truly how you understand the article, I don't know what else to say. All I can do is refer you to the site that explains the Asilomar Accords again. It makes it very clear why that article could not have been written by any shelter- not even remotely close actually.

You absolutely have every right to support organizations you feel comfortable with. Your point of view has more power if it is based on fact and not outright lies from a propaganda group though.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Nikki+2

Purple: Wow, really? Never? Well gosh, I feel pretty special then.

Pink: I don't know how you form your opinions but I research before I form mine. If an organization is truthful and supports my views then I like them. If they lie then I don't. Therefore there isn't an instance where what I think doesn't make something true or not.

If that's truly how you understand the article, I don't know what else to say. All I can do is refer you to the site that explains the Asilomar Accords again. It makes it very clear why that article could not have been written by any shelter- not even remotely close actually.

You absolutely have every right to support organizations you feel comfortable with. Your point of view has more power if it is based on fact and not outright lies from a propaganda group though.

Why don't we just agree to disagree then? I really don't care to debate with you as it seems that sharp-tongued repartee' is your first line of defense. Have a good one!!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by wildcard

I am not a PETA fan however my objections have nothing to do with their euthanasia rate. It is my understanding that PETA provides euthanasia services for shelters that don't have the facilities and that is why it is so high, they aren't designed as an agency to take in and rehab adoptable pets. I am unhappy with their positions on political issues, not with their kill rate. The fact is many pets are brought to shelters in unsaveable conditions and euthanasia is the only real option.

I absolutely respect this because I understand the position from where your opinion is coming from (political).

~~~~~~~

To others - I think what is making this confusing is that people are still slamming the euthanasia/death rate - and that's why some people are asking if the article was even read and/or understood.

I'm not sure where to go from here, other than to ask - since the death rate is so troublesome, what would folks have PETA do? Would you rather they rescue these near-death, totally-beyond-treatment animals and force them to stay alive so the animal can die an excruciating and prolonged, but natural, death? Just so that PETA has a more acceptable death rate?

Look...I have no issues w/ folks who just don't want to support PETA, I get it - feel free to support what feels right. But putting down animals who are in a tortured physical state of health, who are beyond repair, is the kindest thing that can be done for these animals - and I support PETA for being stuck with this awful job of rescuing the worst of the worst. I have a lot of empathy for those people on the front lines who rescue these animals and have to make these decisions. It saddens me to have what they do criticized and misunderstood, but I do understand where that comes from - I do understand why PETA is not an easy organization for some folks to accept.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I absolutely respect this because I understand the position from where your opinion is coming from (political).

~~~~~~~

To others - I think what is making this confusing is that people are still slamming the euthanasia/death rate - and that's why some people are asking if the article was even read and/or understood.

I'm not sure where to go from here, other than to ask - since the death rate is so troublesome, what would folks have PETA do? Would you rather they rescue these near-death, totally-beyond-treatment animals and force them to stay alive so the animal can die an excruciating and prolonged, but natural, death? Just so that PETA has a more acceptable death rate?

Look...I have no issues w/ folks who just don't want to support PETA, I get it - feel free to support what feels right. But putting down animals who are in a tortured physical state of health, who are beyond repair, is the kindest thing that can be done for these animals - and I support PETA for being stuck with this awful job of rescuing the worst of the worst. I have a lot of empathy for those people on the front lines who rescue these animals and have to make these decisions. It saddens me to have what they do criticized and misunderstood, but I do understand where that comes from - I do understand why PETA is not an easy organization for some folks to accept.

I do not have an issue with putting down an animal that needs to be put down but 7 out of over 2000 placed in a loving home and the rest put down? I just don't see how only 7 out of over 2000 isn't salvageable?
I do not support PETA and never will but again, I don't have an issue with what needs to be done but I just can't get past only 7 being able to place and the rest put to sleep....propaganda and it is my opinion and I'm entitled

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I'm not sure where to go from here, other than to ask - since the death rate is so troublesome, what would folks have PETA do? Would you rather they rescue these near-death, totally-beyond-treatment animals and force them to stay alive so the animal can die an excruciating and prolonged, but natural, death? Just so that PETA has a more acceptable death rate?

Thanks, Ann, for a most reasonable post. For myself, my original post summed up my opinion most accurately. I don't know what the answer is, I just see the numbers as being too high under any circumstance. To take the explanation you are offering seems to take a little faith in PETA's honesty and transparency that I just don't have. I cannot fathom a justifiable 90+% kill rate no matter the source of these animals. Do you really think it's such a clear either/or circumstance in all these cases? Possibly, I suppose, but I guess anyone that isn't there can never really know. I won't quote any more data from 'questionable' sources but folks are free to browse for themselves. I will try to become more informed on the specifics of the issue from all available sources and am open to anyone presenting unbiased information. I try to keep an open mind about any issue and this is no exception. Thanks again for your post. I know that you and I are able to disagree on some things without being disagreeable....Jim

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I do not have an issue with putting down an animal that needs to be put down but 7 out of over 2000 placed in a loving home and the rest put down? I just don't see how only 7 out of over 2000 isn't salvageable? I do not support PETA and never will but again, I don't have an issue with what needs to be done but I just can't get past only 7 being able to place and the rest put to sleep....propaganda and it is my opinion and I'm entitled

Oh yes, we're all entitled to our opinions - I always support that!

Just keep in mind - that "7 in 2000" came from the CCF - one of the *worst* propaganda machines on the planet.

The CCF is against MADD too - why? Because MADD hurts the alcohol industry . I just wouldn't put much weight toward any stats provided by the CCF. And I don't mean just for PETA, I mean for anything. So, I just hope you wouldn't base your opinion about anything on stats from CCF - bc those numbers are likely invented. Sadly.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I absolutely respect this because I understand the position from where your opinion is coming from (political).

~~~~~~~

To others - I think what is making this confusing is that people are still slamming the euthanasia/death rate - and that's why some people are asking if the article was even read and/or understood.

I'm not sure where to go from here, other than to ask - since the death rate is so troublesome, what would folks have PETA do? Would you rather they rescue these near-death, totally-beyond-treatment animals and force them to stay alive so the animal can die an excruciating and prolonged, but natural, death? Just so that PETA has a more acceptable death rate?

Look...I have no issues w/ folks who just don't want to support PETA, I get it - feel free to support what feels right. But putting down animals who are in a tortured physical state of health, who are beyond repair, is the kindest thing that can be done for these animals - and I support PETA for being stuck with this awful job of rescuing the worst of the worst. I have a lot of empathy for those people on the front lines who rescue these animals and have to make these decisions. It saddens me to have what they do criticized and misunderstood, but I do understand where that comes from - I do understand why PETA is not an easy organization for some folks to accept.

I think that for most people its a lot to take in. Everyone here obviously loves animals and they want to save them all, or give them a chance. I think what people don't understand is the gravity of these animals situation. Those few pictures that go along with the article show 4 or 5 animals that were put to sleep because of their condition. I don't think everyday people can imagine the torment and torture that animals go through every single day because they are living with cancer, mange, starvation, tick fever, anemia, gum disease, severe allergies, tumors, overbreeding, etc, etc, etc. People may not think some of these things are that bad and that the animal can and should be treated, but the reality is that they just can't. By the time PETA gets these animals their disease/problem is so far out of control that NOTHING can be done to save them. I have PERSONALLY seen cases like the ones in the pictures. It is heartbreaking to see these poor animals living in that condition. I have worked with animals for the past 14 years in shelters and animal hospitals. My job was to try to save these animals from the pain and sometimes the only way to do that was with some tears, a pat on the head, a hug and a kiss, and a needle.

It is estimated that there are 90 million cats, and 70 million dogs in the USA. PETA euthanises 2000 a year. That's 2000 dogs and cats out of how many millions that are suffering, because we all know that those 90 mil and 70mil are not living in happy and healthy homes with owners who would do anything for them.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Thanks, Ann, for a most reasonable post. For myself, my original post summed up my opinion most accurately. I don't know what the answer is, I just see the numbers as being too high under any circumstance. To take the explanation you are offering seems to take a little faith in PETA's honesty and transparency that I just don't have. I cannot fathom a justifiable 90+% kill rate no matter the source of these animals. Do you really think it's such a clear either/or circumstance in all these cases? Possibly, I suppose, but I guess anyone that isn't there can never really know. I won't quote any more data from 'questionable' sources but folks are free to browse for themselves. I will try to become more informed on the specifics of the issue from all available sources and am open to anyone presenting unbiased information. I try to keep an open mind about any issue and this is no exception. Thanks again for your post. I know that you and I are able to disagree on some things without being disagreeable....Jim

I understand where those numbers would be a shock. I also understand folks not having faith in PETA's transparency - PETA is very alienating to a LOT of people and I really do understand where it comes from.

I think the issue w/ the numbers/stats is their source - the CCF is kind of...I don't know how to label them really - but they kinda scare me. And, I know , PETA scares you and others . What scares me about stats from CCF is that they've been caught before inventing stats, so I just fear anything they present as fact.

I do expect PETA to have a rather unimaginable death/euth. rate bc their investigators will actually *sneak* animals out, if they must for the worst, during investigations - they've done stories about this. So honestly, even if they had a 90% euth rate - it wouldn't totally surprise me based upon the level of severity in the cases they attend.

At the end of the day, any death rate is sad - I guess all we can do is offer support according to our comfort level and keep hoping someday we'll be talking about "euthanasia rate" like we now talk about 8-track tapes, which don't really exist anymore. We can hope anyway.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by kalina82

I think that for most people its a lot to take in. Everyone here obviously loves animals and they want to save them all, or give them a chance. I think what people don't understand is the gravity of these animals situation. Those few pictures that go along with the article show 4 or 5 animals that were put to sleep because of their condition. I don't think everyday people can imagine the torment and torture that animals go through every single day because they are living with cancer, mange, starvation, tick fever, anemia, gum disease, severe allergies, tumors, overbreeding, etc, etc, etc. People may not think some of these things are that bad and that the animal can and should be treated, but the reality is that they just can't. By the time PETA gets these animals their disease/problem is so far out of control that NOTHING can be done to save them. I have PERSONALLY seen cases like the ones in the pictures. It is heartbreaking to see these poor animals living in that condition. I have worked with animals for the past 14 years in shelters and animal hospitals. My job was to try to save these animals from the pain and sometimes the only way to do that was with some tears, a pat on the head, a hug and a kiss, and a needle.

It is estimated that there are 90 million cats, and 70 million dogs in the USA. PETA euthanises 2000 a year. That's 2000 dogs and cats out of how many millions that are suffering, because we all know that those 90 mil and 70mil are not living in happy and healthy homes with owners who would do anything for them.

Great firsthand insight! So sorry, Kellie, you have to live w/ these memories.

[Brooklynn]

I just can't see why PETA would come to dog shows and let dogs out of their crates on purpose....how is that keeping an animal safe? Why does PETA have to come picket dog shows because we are the bad guys? Saying we mistreat "OUR" dogs? This is a small portian I know in the grand scheme of things...but if PETA supports and looks out for animal welfare then why turn a perfectly healthy dog and probably treated better than some humans and let them out of crates because they think it's inhumane? Sorry...I can't support an organization that thinks this way....even this article doesn't change my mind towards PETA....I eat meat and I guess that goes against PETA too....I wear leather, UGGS so I guess it's inhumane huh? I love my animals but again PETA does nothing for me....I probably trust my animals more so than humans....and I will still not support PETA But, if those choose to support them it's your choice and that's the beauty of living in the USA we have that right

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I just can't see why PETA would come to dog shows and let dogs out of their crates on purpose....how is that keeping an animal safe? Why does PETA have to come picket dog shows because we are the bad guys? Saying we mistreat "OUR" dogs? This is a small portian I know in the grand scheme of things...but if PETA supports and looks out for animal welfare then why turn a perfectly healthy dog and probably treated better than some humans and let them out of crates because they think it's inhumane? Sorry...I can't support an organization that thinks this way....even this article doesn't change my mind towards PETA....I eat meat and I guess that goes against PETA too....I wear leather, UGGS so I guess it's inhumane huh? I love my animals but again PETA does nothing for me....I probably trust my animals more so than humans....and I will still not support PETA But, if those choose to support them it's your choice and that's the beauty of living in the USA we have that right

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

oh i agree completely with this. PETA is overly ridiculous with some things. I don't support a lot of things that they do. i too eat meat, wear leather, uggs, etc, but with this particular situation i do have to thank PETA for helping these animals.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I just can't see why PETA would come to dog shows and let dogs out of their crates on purpose....how is that keeping an animal safe? Why does PETA have to come picket dog shows because we are the bad guys? Saying we mistreat "OUR" dogs? This is a small portian I know in the grand scheme of things...but if PETA supports and looks out for animal welfare then why turn a perfectly healthy dog and probably treated better than some humans and let them out of crates because they think it's inhumane? Sorry...I can't support an organization that thinks this way....even this article doesn't change my mind towards PETA....I eat meat and I guess that goes against PETA too....I wear leather, UGGS so I guess it's inhumane huh? I love my animals but again PETA does nothing for me....I probably trust my animals more so than humans....and I will still not support PETA But, if those choose to support them it's your choice and that's the beauty of living in the USA we have that right

I don't support turning dogs out their cage, not one iota. That is not something I would ever support. I support good breeders and always will. I believe in what you do.

I don't eat meat (not for ~16 years), but I embrace your choice to eat meat; my hubby eats meat. If you came to my casa for dinner - Donna, I'd cook meat for ya if that's what you wanted . I don't want to force my choices on anyone - that's not my place.

My biggest concern is cruelty and I hope we see less of that - in every arena of the world's industries. For me, PETA is a part of that movement, but I support your choice not to support them. There are plenty of other ways to support animal welfare.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't support turning dogs out their cage, not one iota. That is not something I would ever support. I support good breeders and always will. I believe in what you do.

I don't eat meat (not for ~16 years), but I embrace your choice to eat meat; my hubby eats meat. If you came to my casa for dinner - Donna, I'd cook meat for ya if that's what you wanted . I don't want to force my choices on anyone - that's not my place.

My biggest concern is cruelty and I hope we see less of that - in every arena of the world's industries. For me, PETA is a part of that movement, but I support your choice not to support them. There are plenty of other ways to support animal welfare.

Oh my best friend doesn't eat meat LOL...she cooks for meat for her hubby too LOL...
PETA doesn't support breeders. As Woogie man stated PETA and HSUSA has a $150 million ( I think ) in their budget and they do not use it for what it's meant to be used for....that could go to donating to shelters and causes in my opinion...that money could be used to help stop cruelty and they do not use it for that...it's used more for media campaigns, literature ect...and right out propaganda....JMHO....
I would love with all my heart to stop cruelty to animals and would hurt someone physically if I EVER saw them mistreat an animal but in my opinion PETA again is too extreme for even this total animal lover Until HUMANS get a heart and soul and stop beating their own kids, murdering others then maybe we'll see less animal cruelty.
Again, PETA needs to really practice what they preach as in not coming to dog shows and letting our animals out of a protective crate and just leaving them to escape, get stolen, and possibly get run over I just see fire when that happens....I've been to a dog show where they've let these dogs out and I have to see these poor owners having to try and locate their beloved dog just ticks me off to no end

Donna

[Wylie's Mom]

For those interested, here are the actual euthanasia stats, via the government, for 2007 for PETA; it appears the euth. rate is 22%:

VDACS Online Animal Reporting

The same data is available for 2008 (but not yet on this site, as far as I could tell) and it appears to show a euth. rate of 24%.