Everyone-PLEASE-read and THINK ABOUT....

[QuickSilver]

I have to say, this is tremendously discouraging. I want to rescue a daschund in the next year. How will I be able to determine if the rescue is reputable?

It is incredibly sad to think of a female dog being mercilessly bred and then being sold to a medical facility. However, as others here have pointed out, by buying that dog, you condemn another to fill her place.

Even if the seller takes a loss on the dog, paying ANYTHING for the dog helps the seller, if not by giving them a profit, then by defraying their "used dog" cost. The only way I can see this being legitimate is if you are getting the dogs almost for free.

I agree that doesn't mean the people running the rescue are bad, but it does seem misguided and misleading.

[Obie]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Do you really believe that breeders and rescues can stop puppymills by purchasing one dog at a time?
I honestly do not understand that logic; and surely do not understand how you think that reputable breeders' dogs are the ones in the mills being bred.

I think you misunderstood my post or I worded it wrong that you misunderstood my post. Biewer Terriers are relatively new and I do not know how these kennels acquired them that they are now on an auction block. I do not believe they acquired them through a "reputable breeder" of a Biewer. Does that help you? If we allowed dog auctions in our state I would attend one to see the character of the people who are there buying them. And yes, if I saw a biewer going up for bid and the person doing the high bidding was a miller...he would be outbid!

[Obie]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I have been and while the thought of leaving dogs behind is heartbreaking, there really is no other good solution than to do so. When you buy dogs from the auctions it not only allows the breeder room to breed more dogs, they are also making money. At many of these auctions they are selling dogs for more money than a broker would pay them, so they are actually very profitable for the breeders. The breeders realize this and just breed more dogs. Andi said it best earlier, it's basically like a cheap pet store

If I read the website for the auction correctly, it looked like the kennel was selling out, closing their doors. Before any more of the Biewers would end up this way to a bad breeder I would get it out of that situation. I do not attend animal auctions but did educate myself by attending a few to see what was going on. Not a pretty scene. And yes, I did rescue a few farm animals so they didn't end up on someones dinner plate while I was educating myself.

[Hotel4Yorkies]

I am saddened by this Diana. Maybe you misunderstood or I misunderstood. I think there will always be oppostion to going to auctions but the bashing of one specific rescue tears me up. I am working my guts out trying to save one yorkie or other at a time by fostering and then I get on YT to see "our" rescue being bashed. I don't believe for one minute that we are the only rescue going to auctions. And why it had to be on a national forum and not addressed on our local forum is beyond me. But I do want to ask...Where are you two girls from OKYR at every event that we attend, running at night after our regular jobs to rescue, calling references, searching for more foster homes to save one more furbaby, doing home visits, taking to vet, spay/neuter appts., caring for those after surgery, and the list goes on & on?

I don't mind the discussion about auctions but what I do have a problem with is just OKYR being the one mentioned. Andibaby, you haven't just hurt the board on this one you have stabbed my heart as well. I have put my heart and soul into this organization and I have yet to meet you. For that I'm sorry. But...I will continue to love every rescue that I get no matter where it comes from. And remember that we will NEVER allow any in our front door to be denied. I will continue to give 100% to OKYR in the capacity as a foster mom because I see with my own eyes what wonderful things we are doing! I see these furbabies come out of their shells and learn to trust and love humans again!! I will be forever grateful that I found out about OKYR and that I can give my help where help is needed. I don't want to run my own rescue but I do want to save one yorkie at a time!

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

Agreed. There is no reason why this can't be discussed here. The "shutting down" bit does start to get old.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Katys mom

I said it in my earlier post. We go to auctions, we do not get involved in high bidding, we take the unwanted. We promise the dogs they will have a better life.

You know as well as I do the first auction with biewers OKYR was prepared to spend several hundred dollars for each biewer. That was a slow auction day and they went for $75.

I am sorry if some do not agree with this. That is your choice. OKYR does good things for our rescues everyday.

I want to encourage everyone on YT to become a foster parent. start a rescue or donate your time. Do something to help these dogs.

We are doing our best. We do not always agree in how to do it. Everyone has a choice in what they want to support or be a part of.

If I was the dog, I would want OKYR to get me and not leave me there.
And, if I were that dog I would wonder why others were ignored and I was chosen

I would also encourage others to become involved with a rescue, a rescue that isn't involved with the practice of dog auctions.

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by Hotel4Yorkies

I am saddened by this Diana. Maybe you misunderstood or I misunderstood. I think there will always be oppostion to going to auctions but the bashing of one specific rescue tears me up. I am working my guts out trying to save one yorkie or other at a time by fostering and then I get on YT to see "our" rescue being bashed. I don't believe for one minute that we are the only rescue going to auctions. And why it had to be on a national forum and not addressed on our local forum is beyond me. But I do want to ask...Where are you two girls from OKYR at every event that we attend, running at night after our regular jobs to rescue, calling references, searching for more foster homes to save one more furbaby, doing home visits, taking to vet, spay/neuter appts., caring for those after surgery, and the list goes on & on?

I agree completely that I didn't want this thread to be turned into a bash. I said that in my very first post, if you want to go back and read it. I even defended OKYR! I didn't want this to turn into one big thread about us but that happened and it's not my fault. I was not the one who originally posted and while I don't think OKYR should have been mentioned, I don't think the whole thread should be shut down simply because it's controversial.

About my involvement.. it's a long story but I was at every event I could attend. I am not able to foster because I live in an apartment with 3 people and 3 dogs. We do not have the time or room. When the rescue started, I spent a lot of time emailing references. I've taken many dogs to get spayed/neutered and kept them overnight. IN FACT, I was the one who found out all of the information about Second Chance in Norman and started taking dogs there. I've never been contacted to go on a home visit in Norman or I gladly would have. I'm sorry if I can't foster or drive all over the country to pick up dogs. I am a full time student trying to graduate and get into medical school next year. I have no job, thus no money to eat, much less money to drive 300 miles every weekend. I offered to help in other ways, doing administrative stuff, helping with the adoption process but that was taken care of by others. I also tried to establish some sort of organization within the rescue, something that is required by LAW for non-profits but that idea was rejected too. I made the t-shirt design. I helped Kelly with the adoption contract, the original information about the rescue, creating the email and petfinder accounts. The forms you use to post information about rescues? I wrote those. I tried OVER and OVER to help other ways because I knew I couldn't contribute as much without fostering but in turn all I got was my name taken off the Board of Directors even though I helped start the rescue. Yeah, I couldn't contribute as much as people who could foster but nobody ever let me. Now I attend events when I can and check the board for things I can do to help but there never is anything.

Sorry to get so heated and off-topic but I can't just not reply when I'm called out.

Now, let's get back to the original topic of rescues going to auctions. We don't need to discuss any specific rescues any further.

[AvyQuinn]

Aren't there enough Yorkies that need to be taken care of at a rescue without members of the rescue going to auctions to get more? Aren't rescue organizations often riddled with vet bills and such anyway?

So.. rescues going to market, buying up pups "prepared to spend several hundred dollars for each biewer" and adding to the debt of the rescue... not being able to recoup (through adoption fees) near the cost to buy and vet the dogs, thereby putting the rescue at risk financially... ..? I feel bad for the dogs at the auctions too -- but isn't that almost the same mentality as buying from a pet store? At a pet store to supply demand they support puppy mills.

I don't really know much about the issue but it seems to me that if they sell at an auction (no matter WHO they sold to) the auction then says: Wow, we sold all those yorkies and can make lotsa money! Let's get more! ... and so just like a pet store, to meet demand the auction helps out puppy mills and the like. Simple supply and demand.

If a dog needs to be rescued and shows up on a doorstep of COURSE it will be taken in, I don't think anyone here will argue about that. I do think that supporting auction activities (good intentions or not) is just as bad as buying a pet from a miller or pet store though.

[erickajm]

Originally Posted by AvyQuinn

Aren't there enough Yorkies that need to be taken care of at a rescue without members of the rescue going to auctions to get more? Aren't rescue organizations often riddled with vet bills and such anyway?

So.. rescues going to market, buying up pups "prepared to spend several hundred dollars for each biewer" and adding to the debt of the rescue... not being able to recoup (through adoption fees) near the cost to buy and vet the dogs, thereby putting the rescue at risk financially... ..? I feel bad for the dogs at the auctions too -- but isn't that almost the same mentality as buying from a pet store? At a pet store to supply demand they support puppy mills.

I don't really know much about the issue but it seems to me that if they sell at an auction (no matter WHO they sold to) the auction then says: Wow, we sold all those yorkies and can make lotsa money! Let's get more! ... and so just like a pet store, to meet demand the auction helps out puppy mills and the like. Simple supply and demand.

If a dog needs to be rescued and shows up on a doorstep of COURSE it will be taken in, I don't think anyone here will argue about that. I do think that supporting auction activities is just as bad as buying a pet from a miller or pet store though.

AGREED! Also, I really don't think anyone is coming on here with the sole intention to bash the oklahoma yorkie rescue. We would all be silly to think this is the only rescue going to auction... it is however the one mentioned because it is the one that is planning on going to the auction. There is no doubt in my mind that the foster(s) and other volunteers on here aren't 100
% passionate about the time and money they are giving to this rescue.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by AvyQuinn

Aren't there enough Yorkies that need to be taken care of at a rescue without members of the rescue going to auctions to get more? Aren't rescue organizations often riddled with vet bills and such anyway?

So.. rescues going to market, buying up pups "prepared to spend several hundred dollars for each biewer" and adding to the debt of the rescue... not being able to recoup (through adoption fees) near the cost to buy and vet the dogs, thereby putting the rescue at risk financially... ..? I feel bad for the dogs at the auctions too -- but isn't that almost the same mentality as buying from a pet store? At a pet store to supply demand they support puppy mills.

I don't really know much about the issue but it seems to me that if they sell at an auction (no matter WHO they sold to) the auction then says: Wow, we sold all those yorkies and can make lotsa money! Let's get more! ... and so just like a pet store, to meet demand the auction helps out puppy mills and the like. Simple supply and demand.

If a dog needs to be rescued and shows up on a doorstep of COURSE it will be taken in, I don't think anyone here will argue about that. I do think that supporting auction activities (good intentions or not) is just as bad as buying a pet from a miller or pet store though.

I hate to jump into the middle of this but Millers, puppymills, dog auctions, and pet stores all go hand in hand. It pretty much breaks down like this millers own puppymills, they bring their "stock" to the auctions to sell or purchase more, auctions sell to puppy brokers or other millers and then on to the pet stores. I hope that makes sense......

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Though it is a difficult thing to do, we ask that other rescue groups please not bid on Bichons at this time, as it would only serve to undo all of the work we have already done. Sincerely, Robin Pressnall

Small Paws® Rescue

I see the logic of this, but it also appears to me to be a conflict of interest. Basically, they are asking that people opt out of a competition that they themselves participate in. Why not tell everyone to stop bidding on bichons, including themselves?

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I see the logic of this, but it also appears to me to be a conflict of interest. Basically, they are asking that people opt out of a competition that they themselves participate in. Why not tell everyone to stop bidding on bichons, including themselves?

If you read the post, it states that they have stopped bidding on bichons.

Small Paws isn't going to dog auctions right now, and we are also hoping that other rescuers don't go to these auctions and bid on the Bichons. This is why.

[andibaby]

Originally Posted by Hotel4Yorkies

I am saddened by this Diana. Maybe you misunderstood or I misunderstood. I think there will always be oppostion to going to auctions but the bashing of one specific rescue tears me up. I am working my guts out trying to save one yorkie or other at a time by fostering and then I get on YT to see "our" rescue being bashed. I don't believe for one minute that we are the only rescue going to auctions. And why it had to be on a national forum and not addressed on our local forum is beyond me. But I do want to ask...Where are you two girls from OKYR at every event that we attend, running at night after our regular jobs to rescue, calling references, searching for more foster homes to save one more furbaby, doing home visits, taking to vet, spay/neuter appts., caring for those after surgery, and the list goes on & on?

I don't mind the discussion about auctions but what I do have a problem with is just OKYR being the one mentioned. Andibaby, you haven't just hurt the board on this one you have stabbed my heart as well. I have put my heart and soul into this organization and I have yet to meet you. For that I'm sorry. But...I will continue to love every rescue that I get no matter where it comes from. And remember that we will NEVER allow any in our front door to be denied. I will continue to give 100% to OKYR in the capacity as a foster mom because I see with my own eyes what wonderful things we are doing! I see these furbabies come out of their shells and learn to trust and love humans again!! I will be forever grateful that I found out about OKYR and that I can give my help where help is needed. I don't want to run my own rescue but I do want to save one yorkie at a time!

OK-your right. You have yet to meet me. I have not bashed a single one person here. I have voiced all of my concerns openly on a forum where many users support this organization. I think that there are some things I should clarify:
I am not a foster, nor have I ever been. BUT-when the need was there I worked with my mom to take 2 and my best friend to take another. In the meantime, one of my mother's died of old age and she took another.
I have been to every vet in this town and advertised we are available.
I have been to the local kill shelter, left flyer's, call frequently. They have my6name and number.
I have referred many babies from kill shelters, craigs list, or where ever to OKYR.
I held and OKYR party with invites and donated the beds, toys, treats to the fosters.
So, yes, I did back off when there were 2 dogs in Stillwater that were posted on more than once. For whatever reason they were not taken, I don't know why, I don't make those decisions. But a very short time later 2 biewers were purchased at auction for around 75$ and sold for around 450-500$.
So, I ask. Why would I be the bad person here? I don't understand.
Just because someone is not capable of taking in a foster does not mean they are not involved.
I saw that everytime Jen tried to question something-the forum was threatened to be shut down. I saw it myself. Like this thread. No one is bashing-it is a PUBLIC organization that takes donations and the actions are PUBLIC. Am I right??

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

If you read the post, it states that they have stopped bidding on bichons.

Small Paws isn't going to dog auctions right now, and we are also hoping that other rescuers don't go to these auctions and bid on the Bichons. This is why.

Oh, oops, you're right. That makes more sense. I got confused because they said they work with "commercial kennels." Can someone explain what a commercial kennel is?

[AvyQuinn]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

[/COLOR]

I hate to jump into the middle of this but Millers, puppymills, dog auctions, and pet stores all go hand in hand. It pretty much breaks down like this millers own puppymills, they bring their "stock" to the auctions to sell or purchase more, auctions sell to puppy brokers or other millers and then on to the pet stores. I hope that makes sense......

Ah yes. That's what I assumed.

What I meant by 'good intentions or not' was that rescues go to do what they do: rescue. Even though rescues will have good intentions (just like the family buying the little puppy from the pet store because they feel sorry for it) this all still leads to demand. I know millers and probably stores will go to auction to get pups to make money from and although rescues aren't supposed to be making money off homing ANY pet, this still fuels supply and demand... right? Rescues might as well be brokers to recoup costs! In the end in almost all paths, the pups lose. Maybe not the re-homed ones, but the ones that take the places of those bought at auction.

Here we are back at square one.

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by andibaby

Just because someone is not capable of taking in a foster does not mean they are not involved.
I saw that everytime Jen tried to question something-the forum was threatened to be shut down. I saw it myself. Like this thread. No one is bashing-it is a PUBLIC organization that takes donations and the actions are PUBLIC. Am I right??

Thank you. I agree with this post completely.