Everyone-PLEASE-read and THINK ABOUT....

[Kelz]

Originally Posted by erickajm

With respect to the original poster and the rescue itself. I do hope that we can continue to discuss this and remain somewhat civil. I am sure there will plenty of questions come tomorrow now that Kelz has posted. I am hopeful that maybe it will all make sense in the end.... hopeful.

i'm civil.. like i said ..my number is right there on our website if anyone would like me to explain this to them on the phone.

Originally Posted by andibaby

OK-
I am going to steer the conversation back to the main topic. Purchasing dogs at auctions and who does it support? It is very obvious that some may feel it doesn't matter who it supports-it is about the inhumanity of leaving these babies.
Others feel that it supports everything we work so hard against-the perpetuation of a vicious cycle that will NEVER end without each and EVERY single person putting a stop to it.
To save one yorkie at a time is wonderful. But there are THOUSANDS and a bigger picture has to be looked at. A bigger solution.
Kelly-I have not said one bad thing about you or your fosters on this thread. I feel like YT is a HUGE supporter and that you are running a public organization.
There is not really a need for "bashing". Just say you are going to keep buying from auctions, your supporters and fellow rescues will know where you stand, and they can decide whether to support your rescue.
That is it. Glass house.

that's is it! we do go to auction.. like it or not.. it is what it is.. there does need to be something done about mills.. but until there is.. i will still be there.. getting all the used up yorkies that no one wants.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

So the donations you received in response to the thread you started on a biewer forum weren't used for this purpose?

No answer for this yet? Was the money given back because it wasn't needed?

[Kelz]

it was answered privately.. way to add fuel to the fire jen!! Just keep stirring things up!! that's what you are good at!

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Kelz

it was answered privately.. way to add fuel to the fire jen!! Just keep stirring things up!! that's what you are good at!

Being that the question was asked publicly I thought the answer would be public too. But then I forget who I'm dealing with, someone that likes to sweep the dirt under the rug, it's what you're good at!

[Kelz]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Being that the question was asked publicly I thought the answer would be public too. But then I forget who I'm dealing with, someone that likes to sweep the dirt under the rug, it's what you're good at!

nope.. pm her if you want to know! by me posting more stuff on here that just gives you more stuff to sit there and dwell on it! this is all just personal towards me b/c you have a problem with me... and that's fine.. i'm not out to please everyone.. everyone has their own opinion.

[chattiesmom]

The best way to keep your organization above reproach is to make all records public. You do have a responsibility to those supporting the Rescue through monitary contributions to be accountable and to make public how the funds are spent. That is the only way that individuals can decide where and how to donate the funds that they have set aside for this purpose.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

The best way to keep your organization above reproach is to make all records public. You do have a responsibility to those supporting the Rescue through monitary contributions to be accountable and to make public how the funds are spent. That is the only way that individuals can decide where and how to donate the funds that they have set aside for this purpose.

I agree!

[Kelz]

okay here is our donation stuff from 2008..i took all the names off..


$50.00 $0.00
$15.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$10.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$30.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$1,200.00 $0.00
$300.00 $0.00
$10.00 $0.00
$165.00 $0.00
$5.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$20.00 $0.00
$25.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$50.00 $0.00
$100.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$35.00 $0.00
$50.00
$200.00



$3,240.00 $0.00


and here is JUST our VET bills from 2008.. this does not include all of our other expenses that we have to pay for our dogs.

Expenses
Date What was done Which Vet Who For Cost
6/18/08 tecumseh $93.50
6/18/08 neuter 2nd chance chance $40.00
6/24/08 spay 2nd chance hope $40.00
6/26/08 tecumseh $174.00
7/9/08 tecumseh $63.50
7/14/08 tecumseh $96.00
7/17/08 neuter 2nd chance randy $40.00
7/24/08 tecumseh $276.50
8/4/08 teeth cleaning,neuter tecumseh harley,cyrus,baxter $259.00
8/4/08 tecumseh $150.00
8/14/08 tecumseh $112.00
9/11/08 parvo test council vet hosp. reese $96.12
10/1/08 spay/neuter/shots 2nd chance $220.00
10/1/08 vet checks tecumseh $328.00
10/2/08 vet checks tecumseh $75.00
10/9/08 tecumseh $272.50
10/14/08 well check pet vet $116.16
10/15/08 well check south side $130.00
10/17/08 well check south side $204.18
10/23/08 tecumseh $622.50
11/14/08 south side $133.00
12/12/08 south side $180.89
12/17/08 tecumseh $464.00

Total $4,186.85

[Kelz]

there you go jen!!!! this is just to give you an idea..there are more vet bills that need to be added.. you can clearly see.. JUST our vet bills alone outweigh our donations.. and in 2009.. we have already paid for an lp surgery.. and have been treating dogs with demodex.. not to mention most of our dogs have had dentals this year as well. so how dare you try and say that we "make money"

[jencar98]

Are the fees each person pays for a dog included in the donations? It doesn't appear so, bc as you said most of the dogs were sold for around $150 and I see very few donations in that amount.

Also, the list doesn't reflect the total amount in vet charges for each dog specifically. So, it's hard to see exactly what was spent on each dog (which you said was $200-300).

Furthermore, I have said to others, I don't believe you all make money as in money to spend on any old thing. I realize the money does go back into OKYR for future dog expenses. I did say you all had to have made some money or you would not have been able to buy more dogs. It's not the same a making a real profit, IMO.

[Kelz]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Are the fees each person pays for a dog included in the donations? It doesn't appear so, bc as you said most of the dogs were sold for around $150 and I see very few donations in that amount.

Also, the list doesn't reflect the total amount in vet charges for each dog specifically. So, it's hard to see exactly what was spent on each dog (which you said was $200-300).

Furthermore, I have said to others, I don't believe you all make money as in money to spend on any old thing. I realize the money does go back into OKYR for future dog expenses. I did say you all had to have made some money or you would not have been able to buy more dogs. It's not the same a making a real profit, IMO.

i'm not going to sit here at midnight and go through this entire filing cabinet to make you happy and prove a point to you.. i'm just posting a short version. this is exactly what i'm talking about.. there is no making you happy.. jen is jen.. just bitter and has nothing better to do than pick on everyone else.. what do you want me to say jen?? are you just wanting to me to shut the rescue down?? would that be the better answer for you because you don't like how i run it? this whole thing is just personal towards me! i've gone out of my way to try and make you happy.. but i throw the towel in.. you win. nobody is perfect.

[jencar98]

Never mind answering my last question. It's obvious the donation amounts don't include the fees paid for each dog by their new owner. The last time I was on the forum I believe the number of dogs rescued at that point was somewhere near 70-80 dogs. At an average of $150 adoption fee that would be at least $10,500. Is that not correct?

And btw, no it's not personal as you keep harping on about. OKYR just happened to be the rescue I was associated with and you happened to be the director. If I had found the same circumstances with any other organization I was involved with, I would voice the same concerns.

Your bitterness is understandable though, most whistle blowers are not looked upon favorably by those whom they've blown the whistle about.

[PrincessDiana]

Wow, this thread has really blown up. I hope everyone reading has learned all they need to know and can now make their opinions based off the responses. I'm sad that the thread got so heated because there was an informative, useful discussion in process. Now it will probably get shut down.

[ladyjane]

I keep seeing some posts about organizations being transparent. This is where having a 501c3 is useful.
Now, keep in mind that having that paperwork does not make an organization reputable, but it does give donors a way of understanding where their donations are going. It is also good because donors can then write off their donations.
I have posted before about Guidestar GuideStar nonprofit reports and Forms 990 for donors, grantmakers and businesses . If a rescue has a 501c3, then their records are public! You can see exactly what they have taken in and exactly where it is going! I do know of one rescue that I looked up recently that has not filed their form 990 but that can only go on for a short time before the IRS catches up to them. I believe it is around 5 years that a group's status is revisited.
Anyway......if anyone on here has a question about a group and how they spend their donations, look them up before you donate! You can also see how much they have in terms of assets. I know it was quite a shock to me to see that some groups carry an amazing bank account from year to year. I would also suggest you read their website very carefully. Read their mission statement and watch what they do to see if they are living up to it. You really can find out a lot by reading.
I am not saying that having that paperwork or not having it, makes a group legit or not legit. I am merely informing everyone that you can see what a group does with their donations if they have it.

[AvyQuinn]

Originally Posted by andibaby

To save one yorkie at a time is wonderful. But there are THOUSANDS and a bigger picture has to be looked at. A bigger solution.

QFT.

Originally Posted by Kelz

it was answered privately.. way to add fuel to the fire jen!! Just keep stirring things up!! that's what you are good at!

Originally Posted by jencar98

But then I forget who I'm dealing with, someone that likes to sweep the dirt under the rug, it's what you're good at!

Shame on you and your petty bickering. I get that this is a public forum, but I, for one, don't care to see this. If you want to talk about the issue then do so. I think it's time we left this named organization and the personal slander OUT of this thread.

I see both sides, and I think Kelz has a good heart and is doing what she thinks is best for the dogs she cares about. If she didn't have good intentions then she wouldn't be here talking about it. She simply wouldn't care. She may be doing something wrong in some eyes, and in others she may be doing right. Just agree to disagree and stick to the original topic of discussion?