Parti-Yorkie VS. Biewer

[BamaFan121s]

Yeah, I think I just went in circles with that one and only further confused myself. I know what a meant in my head, but I don't think it came out at all right...in more ways that one. I'll just proudly claim my spot sitting next to JeanieK.

[4lilyorks]

A reason for the use of a splitter can also be to futher open up the lines. The Biewers are very line bred. Health is a big concern for some. There are many reports out there with concerns of closed stud books and lines falling in on themselves when line breeding occurs (not just in the Biewer breed).

Some breeders had splitters in the beginning and now have bred them to use their offspring and now say the are breeding Biewer to Biewer. Others import the correct color (Biewer) from a splitter litter and disregard the fact that it is from a yorkie parent. Others say the are ready to go and breed Biewer to Biewer with 3-4 gerenations free of the yorkie. This is a very new breed as far as generations go so nobody really knows what will happen if you keep the yorkie in or stop breeding it in. In Germany many still use the Yorkie, the Biewer colored puppies are registered as Biewers and the Black/Blue and tan are registered as Yorkies. Although breeding Biewer to Biewer sounds great there is still concern about the health by some what that will do long term when you look at the amount of line breeding that is occuring.

Yes there are those out there getting splitters because they are the "cheaper" way to go. That is unfortunate. The yorkie/splitter that is added in should be added in for a reason. So it can add something to the breed both in health and conformation. I believe in adding splitters in but any puppies from a splitter I breed will stay in my breeding program or be placed as a pet as I watch how they impact the Biewer lines.

[BamaFan121s]

You explained that so well...

(I have to wonder where the OP who started the thread went. Seems like there was a big interest in partis/biewers, but then he/she disapoofed!)

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

You explained that so well...

(I have to wonder where the OP who started the thread went. Seems like there was a big interest in partis/biewers, but then he/she disapoofed!)

That happens fairly frequently with these threads....

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yay! Company!

Again, this goes back to "who you ask" regarding the dogs having been established as a breed of their own. (AKC has yet to declare that.) They have definately been divided (for lack of better word) from the Yorkies.
Some people only breed Biewer to Biewer. Some still integrate Yorkies (on rare occasions) back into the breed to add back into the color. When a Biewer is bred to a standard colored Yorkie, the litter is referred to as a 'splitter litter'--some may be standard colored, some may have the tri-Biewer coloring. A standard colored offspring is referred to as a 'splitter'--if bred to a standard Yorkie, will produce standard colored offspring, when bred to a Biewer, will create Biewer offspring. (But of course, the theory that the dogs are not the result of Yorkies afterall further complicates that, I suppose.)

I *think* I got that right.

I think we'd better make room for more in our State.

In the parti world, we call them carriers.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Laughing...

Breeding a splitter to a biewer does NOT always result in biewer colored puppies. Now we're back to the pie bald gene discussion...this thread has come full circle. The biewer only has the recessive gene to offer...a splitter has both the recessive and the dominant gene to offer. So you can get biewer colored AND standard coloring within the same litter.

Yup that is the way the carrier works.

[durtymydawg]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Ok now I am even more confused.

Since a biewer has been established as a breed of their own, isn't breeding a "splitter" producing a mixed breed?

I now reside in the State of Confusion with Bamafan.

please explain.

OH No....a DeSignEr PUpPie....lol...

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

That happens fairly frequently with these threads....

Makes one wonder what their motives are. But it is still good to discuss this issues, because it is very informative.

[Snow Yorkies]

That is right not all Biewer Clubs feel that Biewer to Biewer is the way to do things. Not one Biewer club in Germany has this conception. They also have the door open to breeding back to a Yorkshire.

There are 50 plus registries in Germany registering the Yorkie/Biewer lines, unless someone can tell me different ** every one of them still have an open stud book.

We have kept our doors open as well. We will follow FSS and their belief for this breed that it is a variance of the Yorkshire, which is based on it's history, to this date. A gene isn't going to get this dog into FSS. A gene doesn't make a different breed. So don't be fooled! Several breeds have different color genes and they are still that breed, they aren't called something else, just a variance within the breed, period. I don't get to make the rules for dogs, so don't attack me..

We are now called greeders and tainting lines. I can not get passed the fact that in 10 generations the founding stock still is showing up in astronomical numbers. Which concludes there isn't enough lines to keep this breed from becoming bottlenecked to extinction.

We understand the effects of line breeding on such a small gene pool. For the sake of the dog we will keep an open mind and do what is in that best interest. We are not proponents of rushing into just breeding back to the Yorkshire with out rules and regulations, nor in large mass of breeding. This has to be documented and kept within our own breeding programs and not released to the general public for breeding. It stays with us or trusted members of the best produced. The rest of the litter is then spay/neutered and placed as pets. This goes for 3 to 5 generations within our own breeding programs.

Some breeders will allow Germany to do the introducing of the Yorkshire, and import them once they are one to two generation biewer to biewer, so they are just alluding the concept of biewer to biewer. I personally feel that if a Yorkshire is added into the mix.. then I want to know what line it has come from. I want to be able to see those parents, grandparent..ect. We have already faced several undesirable traits within the breed. One testies, bad bites, rounded ears, bad coats. Oh and don't kid yourself... they aren't of all German decent and lines. Breeders import and export all day long. I have been able to trace lineage back to America.

It wasn't until the biewer came to America the conceptions changed for the race to get to FSS with no regard for the well being of the dog.

To get back to the original post... You can check with the BYA and their registry and see if they will. Otherwise I think there is only one registry in Germany that does this registering.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by 4lilyorks

A reason for the use of a splitter can also be to futher open up the lines. The Biewers are very line bred. Health is a big concern for some. There are many reports out there with concerns of closed stud books and lines falling in on themselves when line breeding occurs (not just in the Biewer breed).

Some breeders had splitters in the beginning and now have bred them to use their offspring and now say the are breeding Biewer to Biewer. Others import the correct color (Biewer) from a splitter litter and disregard the fact that it is from a yorkie parent. Others say the are ready to go and breed Biewer to Biewer with 3-4 gerenations free of the yorkie. This is a very new breed as far as generations go so nobody really knows what will happen if you keep the yorkie in or stop breeding it in. In Germany many still use the Yorkie, the Biewer colored puppies are registered as Biewers and the Black/Blue and tan are registered as Yorkies. Although breeding Biewer to Biewer sounds great there is still concern about the health by some what that will do long term when you look at the amount of line breeding that is occuring.

Yes there are those out there getting splitters because they are the "cheaper" way to go. That is unfortunate. The yorkie/splitter that is added in should be added in for a reason. So it can add something to the breed both in health and conformation. I believe in adding splitters in but any puppies from a splitter I breed will stay in my breeding program or be placed as a pet as I watch how they impact the Biewer lines.

Very informative. Since the partis have not yet been established into a club, we are free to use the "carriers". But that is something that we need to keep in mind when setting rules and regulations.

Those that are pushing to have the Biewers developed into a breed outside of the yorkies need to take that into consideration.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

That is right not all Biewer Clubs feel that Biewer to Biewer is the way to do things. Not one Biewer club in Germany has this conception. They also have the door open to breeding back to a Yorkshire.

There are 50 plus registries in Germany registering the Yorkie/Biewer lines, unless someone can tell me different ** every one of them still have an open stud book.

We have kept our doors open as well. We will follow FSS and their belief for this breed that it is a variance of the Yorkshire, which is based on it's history, to this date. A gene isn't going to get this dog into FSS. A gene doesn't make a different breed. So don't be fooled! Several breeds have different color genes and they are still that breed, they aren't called something else, just a variance within the breed, period. I don't get to make the rules for dogs, so don't attack me..

We are now called greeders and tainting lines. I can not get passed the fact that in 10 generations the founding stock still is showing up in astronomical numbers. Which concludes there isn't enough lines to keep this breed from becoming bottlenecked to extinction.

We understand the effects of line breeding on such a small gene pool. For the sake of the dog we will keep an open mind and do what is in that best interest. We are not proponents of rushing into just breeding back to the Yorkshire with out rules and regulations, nor in large mass of breeding. This has to be documented and kept within our own breeding programs and not released to the general public for breeding. It stays with us or trusted members of the best produced. The rest of the litter is then spay/neutered and placed as pets. This goes for 3 to 5 generations within our own breeding programs.

Some breeders will allow Germany to do the introducing of the Yorkshire, and import them once they are one to two generation biewer to biewer, so they are just alluding the concept of biewer to biewer. I personally feel that if a Yorkshire is added into the mix.. then I want to know what line it has come from. I want to be able to see those parents, grandparent..ect. We have already faced several undesirable traits within the breed. One testies, bad bites, rounded ears, bad coats. Oh and don't kid yourself... they aren't of all German decent and lines. Breeders import and export all day long. I have been able to trace lineage back to America.

It wasn't until the biewer came to America the conceptions changed for the race to get to FSS with no regard for the well being of the dog.

To get back to the original post... You can check with the BYA and their registry and see if they will. Otherwise I think there is only one registry in Germany that does this registering.

Please define FSS.

That was a well written post and IMO as it should be. If they are yorkshires first and Biewers second then the breeding back to yorkshires should be allowed. It makes sense because as you said if not it will lead to a lot of inbreeding.

Those that are trying to break away from the yorkshires better think of the long term repurcusions. It might not turn out like they want it to. of course I suppose they could always buy from the rest of you who are still splitting.

[Snow Yorkies]

FSS - Foundation Stock Service, that is where new breeds start with AKC.
Foundation Stock Service® Program

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

I agree!! Great post!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I agree!! Great post!

Lynn, This post has already been addressed and dismissed as being inaccurate and a matter of opinion and not fact.

I find it interesting that the YTCA denies that these are purebred yorkies, yet they specifically address the issue of the parti color as being an off color.

They can't have it both ways.

They also claim that the off colors cause health issues. Which we all know that this is no more true with off colors than it is with traditional colors.

Therefore, since they insist on printing untruths on their site. IMO it discredits anything and everything they have to say. It might be true, but it also might not.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I find it interesting that the YTCA denies that these are purebred yorkies

Could you please direct me to that info? (In this thread...I didn't see it.)