Parti-Yorkie VS. Biewer

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Those standards would be the same for Biewers as well. (Again, depending on who you ask--I *think* that some established organizations have made some changes regarding size, but I'm not 100% sure on that.)
The exception would be that Biewers call for the tail to be left in tact, as they originated in Germany where the practice is prohibited. Are parti breeders leaving the tail, or docking? I know that may not be the same answer for breeders accross the board.
Biewers have a standard for color placement and of course originated from the same German line.

Parti breeders do dock tails but Summit yorkies (where I've gotten 2 parti yorkies from) tend to dock a little longer than I like ... but heck, I don't plan to show them, so I'm not too worried

[BamaFan121s]

Gosh, I didn't realize they had even allowed them to be registered at long ago as that...I was thinking it was only within the past few years. Thanks for the clarification Sue.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pruett

Quote from Jeanne.

Bama, you say that Jeanne never used my name nor the clubs name so she wasn't talking about us. Then you say I attached her because I corrected the information she was giving the public. When correcting false statements, I do not believe anyone would consider that an attack. Everybody makes mistakes and most people like to be corrected if they have been misinformed, wouldn't you agree?

That being said, I would like to correct a statement made earlier about there being no documentation proving the Biewer a separate breed. We do have DOCUMENTATION proving the Biewer Terrier a distinctly separate breed from the Yorkshire Terrier. This doesn't mean that it didn't get it's beginning with the Yorkie.

We are the only club that refers to the Biewer as a Biewer Terrier, so would you like to tell me who she is talking about in the above paragraph if it's not the BTCA? I would love to talk with other people that believe as we do.

Would you also show me where on the BTCA site that it says the Biewer did not originate from the Yorkie? It would most definitely be a typo and we would correct it immediately. Thank you.

I was not clear on my post I was referring to the parti gene not the dog itself.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

It looks to me like tha parti breeders are the ones with their underware in a knot, not YTCA. No one has been afraid of the YTCA. What do they have to be afraid of, death? Maybe being ousted for eing an unethical breeder perhaps.

Oh yes theree are show breeders that are afraid of being banned from showing because they had a parti pup. Having a parti pup show up in a litter of traditional colored parents is not unethical. But of course they are not going to tell people that are connected with the YTCA.

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Oh yes theree are show breeders that are afraid of being banned from showing because they had a parti pup. Having a parti pup show up in a litter of traditional colored parents is not unethical. But of course they are not going to tell people that are connected with the YTCA.

i think there have always been particolored yorkies.. check your pedigrees cuz mine have ancestors marked tri color

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I am sure you have a huge list of people "hiding" the odd ball colores too. And I bet that they are ALL exhibitors and YTCA members to boot. You know, the only people that lie about their dogs. I think we already discussed the black and tan issue on the othr thread so I dont know why you are confused.

And just because the parents are DNA;d against the puppies does not mean that the puppies or parents are pure-bred. The problem will not be solved. The parents all should have been DNA'd back in the 50's, but the technology wasnt available then. I am sure by the amount of BYBrs back in th 80's that many mixes were produced and sold as "rare" colored AKC dogs.

If the YTCA or the AKC started requiring all show dogs to be DNA'd, I'm afraid that there would be a lot of skeletons hiding in the closets. Wouldn't that be a hoot. Imagine all those red faces.

Remember, that the parti colored yorkies did come from Champion traditional colored yorkies. Where or when the gene got into the mix is really not important at this time. The FACT is that it came from traditional colored show winning yorkshire terriers. Did one ever consider that this might be the gene that helped the dog to become champion, regardles of where this gene came from.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by cesar49

i think there have always been particolored yorkies.. check your pedigrees cuz mine have ancestors marked tri color

I would love a copy of these pedigrees or the names of the dogs listed as tri colors. I've seen blue and tan with white on some pedigrees before. If you ever have a minute to share the names for my research, please PM me.

Thanks!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Remember, that the parti colored yorkies did come from Champion traditional colored yorkies. Where or when the gene got into the mix is really not important at this time. The FACT is that it came from traditional colored show winning yorkshire terriers.

Well, you know that is where YOURS came from.
But who can say if that is the truth for every dog claimed to be a parti? I think the concern for many is that it isn't the case for many of the dogs that are being proclaimed as 'partis' that are out there.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I would put my money on Lorraine and Pruitt before believeing any of the scenarios about parti colors that you and pinwehaven have come up with. And who dismissed her post as being an opinion, the parti breeders? Doesnt that mean that you are only spouting "opinions" also? Can blue and tan color breeders dismiss your statements, or is that only for the parti breeders? Why is it that the only records to go on are Biewer and parti breeders records? I guess that the blue and tan breeders records are all lies?
And by the way, it is a good post!

Thank You. At the time I posted that, I was not aware that there are DNA testing labs that claim to be able to destinguish the different breeds.
No one, before Pinehaven, ever mentioned the testing labs or the results other than to say that it had been done and it "proved" that there is another mix in there.

Well it may have proved that the dogs that were tested had the mix in there, which I have said all along that there might be lines out there that do have something else mixed in, but it does not "prove" that original Biewer line had it mixed in. I don't think the testing can go back that many generations. I am currently researching that issue.

The parti line is not as old as the Biewer line, so tests done on these dogs might be more conclusive. But unless every line is tested, it still does not prove that the original parti colored yorkies had another breed in the mix.

I doubt that anything will ever be concluded to everyone's satisfaction in our lifetime. I would be totally thrilled to find out that there is another mix in the partis so that we did not fall under the YTCA's standards. But I suspect that the YTCA would not like to give up the control of whether or not these dogs can be shown.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Those standards would be the same for Biewers as well. (Again, depending on who you ask--I *think* that some established organizations have made some changes regarding size, but I'm not 100% sure on that.)
The exception would be that Biewers call for the tail to be left in tact, as they originated in Germany where the practice is prohibited. Are parti breeders leaving the tail, or docking? I know that may not be the same answer for breeders accross the board.
Biewers have a standard for color placement and of course originated from the same German line.

The Biewers have a standard that was set by the Biewer originator. The partis do not have a standard set other than the YTCA's standardc for all yorkies. As for the tails, most breeders dock them right now, that might change once a club is established to set standards. I would guess that Standard yorkies coming over from the UK do not have their tails docked either. Good question.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by cesar49

i think there have always been particolored yorkies.. check your pedigrees cuz mine have ancestors marked tri color

Really? How far back is that? And what line did those parti colors originate from? It has only been within the last 10 years that AKC has even registered these parti colors.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Well, you know that is where YOURS came from.
But who can say if that is the truth for every dog claimed to be a parti? I think the concern for many is that it isn't the case for many of the dogs that are being proclaimed as 'partis' that are out there.

I agree, that is what I have said repeatedly, that there are most likely lines out there that have other breeds mixed in. And the line that mine are from might have others mixed in also but it is most likely too far back to detect.

That is why I am all in favor of the testing.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The Biewers have a standard that was set by the Biewer originator. The partis do not have a standard set other than the YTCA's standardc for all yorkies.

That is true, but it has changed a bit over time. (Afterall, the Biewers originated the breed as being derived from pure Yorkie, and that's not being followed, right? According to one group, even the name itself is not the same as what the Biewers started out with. Now, at who's hand it changed, I cannot say. (And quite frankly, don't care.) But I *think* that there are established clubs that are not all following the exact same guidelines as one another as far as standard is concerned. So again, it comes down to who you ask.

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I would guess that Standard yorkies coming over from the UK do not have their tails docked either. Good question.

I am pretty sure you are right. I have seen many on here post that they imported standard Yorkies that have intact tails.

[JeanieK]

Here is the response that I JUST received from a company that does the testing.

Jeanie,

Thanks for your interest in the DNA Breed Identification Test. The test is designed for the sole purpose of identifying the breeds found in the genetic composition of mixed breed dogs. It is not intended to verifiy if your dog is a purebred. Of course, if only one breed is identified, then the chances your dog is a purebred are pretty high. The results, which arrive in about two weeks after the lab receives your DNA sample, include an Ancestry Analysis and Breed Behavior, Health and Personality Summary. The Ancestry Analysis is uses levels rather than absolute values to determine the breeds. The levels are defined as follows:

Level 1: Over 75% of the DNA found in your dog is from the breed listed
Level 2: Each Breed listed represents between 37-74% of your dog's DNA.
Level 3: Each Breed listed represents between 20-36% of your dog's DNA.
Level 4: Each Breed listed represents between 10-19% of your dog's DNA.
Level 5: Each Breed listed represents less than 10% of your dog's DNA.

As far as generations go, DNA never goes away, so as long as it's there, the lab should be able to see it. The $59.95 does cover everything. That price covers the Kit, which includes the collection devices, a customer information card, detailed instructions and a postage-paid envelope to send your sample back to the lab, and it covers the analysis of your DNA and the results. We even offer free shipping, so the $59.95 is all you need to pay!

Thanks again for your interest in Breed Identification, if you have any other questions, please let us know.

Regards,

Mark Boyd
DNABreedID

[JeanieK]

[QUOTE=BamaFan121s;2209187]That is true, but it has changed a bit over time. (Afterall, the Biewers originated the breed as being derived from pure Yorkie, and that's not being followed, right? According to one group, even the name itself is not the same as what the Biewers started out with. Now, at who's hand it changed, I cannot say. (And quite frankly, don't care.) But I *think* that there are established clubs that are not all following the exact same guidelines as one another as far as standard is concerned. So again, it comes down to who you ask.

QUOTE]

Yes that is what I am coming up with also. There are so many Biewer clubs and registries out there, although only one (as fas as I know) is now claiming that they are not pure yorkie, and have changed the name.

I don't understand why they don't all belong to one club. I guessing that if someone does not like the rules of one club they just start their own. I guess they have the right to do that but it does remove a lot of the creditability of the breed.