Do you approve of different colored yorkies?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by mscat

A Biewer is a specific breed of dog... It is not called a Biewer Yorkie.

Well actually, the 'extended' name is the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon. (But that's kind of a mouthful, isn't it?)
Depending on who you ask now it's been shortened, change a bit and they are refered to as either Biewer Terriers, or Biewer Yorkshire Terriers.

[nudiva37]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Gosh, I hope it wasn't me that sounded disrespectful ... I always try to be as level headed, professional and respectful as possible.

I love learning from your post and site...please keep up the good work.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

This is a breed registry, but the breed standard has color restrictions. Most breed standards do. So, basically what you are saying is that it is ok to breed a blue and tan Biewer and show it and its ok to breed a non-masked Rott and show it and it would be ok to breed and show a black brindle Labrador also. These are all known colors that have been known to crop up in these breeds and the blue and tan is directly related to the Biewer and is in the gene pool. Do you think that the parent club of these breeds are just going to change the standard for the people that want to breed outside the standard? Why cant I show a blue and tan Biewer? Because the Biewer standard says I cant. Any ETHICAL Biewer breeder does not breed dogs that are not to the written standard. Same as all the other breeds, including the Yorkie. Why do you think its ok to breed outside the Yorkie standard? Thats what I dont understand.

I can't comment on the Biewer questions since there are a number of Biewer registries with different rules and I don't know if any allow Biewer (parti gene) carriers to show in classes.

Again, standards for many breeds were written years ago prior to the scientific knowledge and DNA testing that we have today. If you review the YTCA's website, it states that:

"One of the reasons for avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases long-term illness and/or death."

With the exception of the blue born yorkies, we know that the above statement is false. The other off colored yorkies are no more prone to health or illness problems, than the standard yorkies are. So that reason, for not breeding off colors, is a poor reason. This sounds like something people in the early 1900's would have thought because they knew no better; back in those days, that's what they were told, that off colors were genetically damaged, weak and unhealthy.

An ETCHIAL breeder (as you stated) does not breed dogs that are not to the written standard" but unfortunately, many YTCA members have been breeding outside the standard for years and will probably continue to do so in the future. Red leg, black and tan and yorkies with dark golden points have been used and will most likely continue to be used, in breeding programs to enhance the color of their show stock. So why is it ok to breed, raise and sell some off colored yorkies but it's not ok to breed, raise and sell other off colored stock? That's what I don't understand?

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Ok, I'm a bit confused by your post? How is a color gene determining color a 'disease?' I don't think anyone (ethical) would condone breeding any two dogs that carry shunt or ct...?
Maybe I am just misunderstanding your post...

Thank you. In addition to what you wrote, i ave not heard of any health issues that are related to the parti colored yorkies specifically.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

What I am saying is that: if the Biewer inventors bought their original stock from the Streamglen kennel, why is it that the Streamglen kennel never produced any parti colors? I am sure that the Biewer inventors didnt buy the only parti carriers that Streamglen had. Why is it that nobody else that bought Streamglen dogs produce parti colors?
And the chocolate dog I saw at the show was a registered Biewer from Germany. Not a Biro.

Perhaps there were parti coloreds produced, but they kept it hushed like yorkie breeders have been doing for years.

From what I read on the standards set by the Biewer club of America, the chocolate coloring would not have been allowed. but I am not familiar with any of that, I'm just going by what i read on the Biewer club website.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Does that mean a small white spot on a black Labradors chest means he is a parti carrier? It means diddly squat. There are alot of breeds that have a small white spot on the chest. Including Skyes. HMM, must have come from a parti carrier in the past. And I will tell you that there has never been a parti Skye. The parent club makes sure that they do not fall into the hands of byb's and those who want to tweek the standard.

Actually, this subject has gotten very worn out and has solved nothing. As I have said before, you will never change my mind and I will never change yours. You evidentally do not respect or breed to the YTCA standard so I doubt very much if I will ever see "off colors" in the show ring, or at least not with the Yorkies. I think that will suit everybody just fine.

Never say Never.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

While I do believe that breeding for breed type, conformation, temperament and health are a goal that all should strive for, this is a breed registry and not coat color registry. Many breed registries have multiple coat colors and color combinations in their breeds. Coat color doesn't make their breed any less true to the physical and structural standard just because the dogs are not all the exact same color.

While I applaud those who have extensively researched the early history of the Yorkshire Terrier, much of what their conclusions are based on, are their own opinions and theories because there was little information on the unregistered, non pedigreed founding dogs who were used to begin this breed. Some theories are that the Maltese was used in the breed, others feel they were not. I think what is correct in both thoughts is that terrier type dogs were used to begin this breed. I don't think that anyone can guarantee, that they know what visible or hidden genes were in those terrier type dogs because pedigrees on most were not kept.

The standards were written over 100 years ago, back in the days when an off colored pup in the litter, would be drowned because they were thought to be inferior and unhealthy. We know today, this type of thinking is obsolete and very incorrect; these colors should have a rightful place in the breed, we may not see them in the show ring any time soon but maybe one day we will.

I could not have said it better myself. In addition, the standards have been changed in the past and no doubt will be changed again. You can bet if the parti color becomes popular enough, the standard will be changed. And "yorkiekist" perhaps that is what you are afraid of and that is why you are so adement that these colors not be bred.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by nudiva37

While at admire the strenght and the education I am getting here. I uphold all of your comments and the education as mentors and idealist. I am however kind of sad to try to learn and read some things that kriss cross kind of disrespectful... I admired the person who debates and takes the high road.
I am amazed since being a member the wealth of knowledge you guys have bestowed on me.... I read more...I talk to my vet more. I look and observe my stock more and I reasearch more. I would ask that you brillant breeders please continue to teach the underdogs like myself to be able to debate with respect.... No matter how different our opinions we are all ONE>..
DOG LOVERS at the end of the day no matter the standard.... I would be the first to spend all I own to change thier world so that all breeds could have a better life.... just my two cents... trying to follow the thread...but as I read I get disappointed at the people I look up to... hopefully you guys understand what I am trying to say without getting pissed off at me...

I think we can all agree on that.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by nudiva37

I love learning from your post and site...please keep up the good work.

Thank you Nudiva37!!!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Do you think that the parent club of these breeds are just going to change the standard for the people that want to breed outside the standard? Why cant I show a blue and tan Biewer? Because the Biewer standard says I cant. Any ETHICAL Biewer breeder does not breed dogs that are not to the written standard. Same as all the other breeds, including the Yorkie. Why do you think its ok to breed outside the Yorkie standard? Thats what I dont understand.

That is how all new breeds get started is from people who are brave enough to face this type of opposition and breed outside the standard.

And yes parent club change their standards all the time to what ever is popular with the dog lovers.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire Allen

Inferring that someone's breeding ethics aren't good because of color breeding...to me it sounds like an attack, passionate or not.

thank you for your kind hearted support. This is mild compared to some of the discussions on this subject. We parti lover have gotten quite tough but I doubt that it is any different than any other group has gone through when attempting to make changes to the standard.

I personally don't even care if they change the standard. just allow us to breed these beautiful dogs so they can earn their place just as the Biewers have.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Have you ever read any of the by-laws and code of ethics of the parent clubs of any breeds? An ethical breeder is one that breeds to the standard of what ever breed they are breeding.

The wording might deem us to be unethical, but i cannot see how it is considered to be so as long as our first concern is the health and temperament of the offspring.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

sorry, the door bell rang. Anyway, I am not saying JeanieK or Pinehaven or any other off standard breeder are "bad" people. I am sure that they are all nice and probably fun to be around. Most "dog" people are!! We just dont agree on breeding practices. No one is attacking anyone. sorry you are perceiving it like that. If you stay around the dog world long enough, you will develope thick skin.LOL

Awwwwwwwww that was so nicely put. I'm guessing that you are very nice too.

[mscat]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Well actually, the 'extended' name is the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon. (But that's kind of a mouthful, isn't it?)
Depending on who you ask now it's been shortened, change a bit and they are refered to as either Biewer Terriers, or Biewer Yorkshire Terriers.

Very interesting.... Thank you .

[JeanieK]

I appologize for so many posts in a row, it;'s just taking me a while to get caught up.