Do you approve of different colored yorkies?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Thank you ... you nailed it on the head!

You say the colors Red leg, black and tan, and running gold, have always been in the gene pool and their color has been used in breeding programs to improve the blue and tan color. Well parti, golden and chocolate have always been in the gene pool too, they've just been culled, kept quiet and disposed of.



This is what I don't understand ... that it's ok to breed, raise and sell some off colors but it's not ok to breed, raise and sell other off colors.

When I see the YTCA and it's members, adamantly discriminate and condemn all off colors and not just certain off colors, than I'll begin to have a better understanding of their views.

Where do you think the genes for the red legs, black and tan, running gold yorkies came from ... same place that the parti gene, chocolate gene and golden gene came from, "In the Beginning"! It's from the unknown genes of the many types of terriers that began this breed.

Remember, the only acceptable color in our breed is Blue and tan. Not one of the above dogs listed, will meet that color standard but only some of those off colors are condemned, while some of those off colors are accepted and incorporated into todays breeding programs.

So, it's ok to be off color just as long as it's not way off color? Maybe YTCA needs to clarify that in their written standards?

But you missed the point. Partis do not have the required saddle patten. Never have and never will. On runnng golds or tans(which ever you prefer to call it), and I am not talking about the designer all gold or chocolate Yorkies, there is still a saddle pattern. It just that there is more gold hairs growing within the dark saddle part. There are still more dark hairs than tan where the saddle pattern is as well.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Perhaps there were parti coloreds produced, but they kept it hushed like yorkie breeders have been doing for years.

From what I read on the standards set by the Biewer club of America, the chocolate coloring would not have been allowed. but I am not familiar with any of that, I'm just going by what i read on the Biewer club website.

So now you are saying that all Yorkies breeders have been covering up color flaws for generations. So, what happened to all the other puppies that Streamglen sold to other breeders? Where is all the documentation of parti colors being produced by these breeders? Or did the Biewers, miraculously get the only set of parti genes that Streamglen had? You cant tell me that all Yorkies breeders just closed there eyes to the problem, if there actually was a problem.(I am talking about reputable breeders, not the sneeky bybrs or mills) Most reputable breeders, be it exhibitors or hobby breeders, would spay,neuter and place any off colored Yorkie produced, including the parents of the offspring if necessary. And, yes, you always have a few "bad apples" in the bunch that lie about their dogs, be it color or health issues. These breeders are eventually found out and they slowly dissappear from the show/reputable breeder scene. I believe there is more lying, cheating and falsifying of records in the bybr scene or the "wanna be" breeders.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

But you missed the point. Partis do not have the required saddle patten. Never have and never will. On runnng golds or tans(which ever you prefer to call it), and I am not talking about the designer all gold or chocolate Yorkies, there is still a saddle pattern. It just that there is more gold hairs growing within the dark saddle part. There are still more dark hairs than tan where the saddle pattern is as well.

So does the saddle make the yorkie a yorkie? Lack of saddle = not yorkie?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

So does the saddle make the yorkie a yorkie? Lack of saddle = not yorkie?

The saddle, as well as correct color and color placement, dark eyes, conformation, hair quality, etc are all a part of the complete package. These qualities are what responsible and reputable breeders are striving for in their breeding programs. Without the complete package, you do not have a Yorkie. I have never met a Yorkie that did not have a saddle pattern. I have only seen the "designer colors" in pictures. None of them had the correct color and color pattern, most had incorrect hair texture, chocolates had incorrect eye/nose color and the conformation quality on most was poor. I have only seen one Biewer in person. It was a chocolate, white with some black points and the wavey hair had the same texture as a Shih-tzu. I am sure this one must have been of sub-standard quality. I am assuming that is what you mean.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

The saddle, as well as correct color and color placement, dark eyes, conformation, hair quality, etc are all a part of the complete package. These qualities are what responsible and reputable breeders are striving for in their breeding programs. Without the complete package, you do not have a Yorkie. I have never met a Yorkie that did not have a saddle pattern. I have only seen the "designer colors" in pictures. None of them had the correct color and color pattern, most had incorrect hair texture, chocolates had incorrect eye/nose color and the conformation quality on most was poor. I have only seen one Biewer in person. It was a chocolate, white with some black points and the wavey hair had the same texture as a Shih-tzu. I am sure this one must have been of sub-standard quality. I am assuming that is what you mean.

Red legs, black and tan, and running golds, are not the correct color and most do not have the correct coat texture. They may have the saddle, but so do Chocolates and partis (parti's would be Bi colored and not Tri colored if they genetically did not have the gene responsible for producing the saddle pattern, parti's would be white and tan and not white, tan and black/blue).

So wouldn't breeding a red leg, black and tan and running gold into a breeding program also be considered using sub-standard quality dogs and no responsible or reputable breeder would do that?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Red legs, black and tan, and running golds, are not the correct color and most do not have the correct coat texture. They may have the saddle, but so do Chocolates and partis (parti's would be Bi colored and not Tri colored if they genetically did not have the gene responsible for producing the saddle pattern, parti's would be white and tan and not white, tan and black/blue).

So wouldn't breeding a red leg, black and tan and running gold into a breeding program also be considered using sub-standard quality dogs and no responsible or reputable breeder would do that?

I believe that I already went over issues of the red leg, black and running gold. No reputable breeder will breed a dog with runnng gold and if one crops up in a litter, its spay, neuter, plce. And the black or red leg would have to be sooooooooooooooooo outstanding a specimen of the breed to even be considered breeding to. These dogs are not used frequently for the reasons I gave before. Why would you want to breed for "hidden" saddles?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I believe that I already went over issues of the red leg, black and running gold. No reputable breeder will breed a dog with runnng gold and if one crops up in a litter, its spay, neuter, plce. And the black or red leg would have to be sooooooooooooooooo outstanding a specimen of the breed to even be considered breeding to. These dogs are not used frequently for the reasons I gave before. Why would you want to breed for "hidden" saddles?

Ideally, the saddles wouldn't be hidden. Parti breeders are just beginning to learn how to manipulate/improve the coloring and pattern in our dogs. Just as reputable traditional breeders use/used black and tan and red leg in their breeding programs for years to improve coat color and texture, it will take time for parti breeders to learn what breedings will perfect the beautifully marked parti with steel blue saddles.

For a breed that is thought to only be blue and tan in color, we have parti, chocolate, golden, blue born, black and tan, red legs and running gold genes in our lines too ... did I forget any other "off" color genes that are not suppose to be in our dogs but are showing up some lines?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Ideally, the saddles wouldn't be hidden. Parti breeders are just beginning to learn how to manipulate/improve the coloring and pattern in our dogs. Just as reputable traditional breeders use/used black and tan and red leg in their breeding programs for years to improve coat color and texture, it will take time for parti breeders to learn what breedings will perfect the beautifully marked parti with steel blue saddles.

For a breed that is thought to only be blue and tan in color, we have parti, chocolate, golden, blue born, black and tan, red legs and running gold genes in our lines too ... did I forget any other "off" color genes that are not suppose to be in our dogs but are showing up some lines?

Let me know when you all get that saddle pattern down pat! You could call it the saddled parti terrier! The color will still be incorrect for a Yorkie. As for the off colors, reputable Yorkie breeders that breed to the standard do not breed for them. And I already went over the black and tan or red leg issue. Also, the red leg is still a blue and tan but the legs are just a little darker tan and its still shaded. The saddle is a very nice dark steel blue. The only problem I see with that color is the hair texture, not the color. Personally, I would never breed to either, but thats just me.

[kat1york]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

A mixed breed? Mixed with what?
Any dog that comes from two pure bred parents is pure bred. the partis and the biewers had the exact same beginnings, same dog, different country.

The Biewer Terrier was originally known as the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon. On January 20th, 1984, the first blue, white and gold Yorkie, named Scheefloeckchen von Friedheck, was born to 1981 Dortmund Junior Champion, Darling von Friedheck and 1981 Dortmund World Champion, Fru-Fru von Friedheck.
Mr. Werner Biewer first introduced his tri-colored dogs to the show ring in March 1988, at Wiesbaden, Germany. At this time he presented 2 dogs and called them black and white Yorkies.
The VDH denied the acceptance of the dogs as being a breed of their own. They instead designated them as being of “wrong color, not for breeding.” Mr. Biewer was unhappy with this decision and began his search for a registry that would accept his beloved black and white Yorkies as a separate breed. The ACH (Allgemeiner Club der Hundefreunde Deutschland e.V.) was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon.
While dining one evening the husband of singer Margot Eskens presented her with a Biewer Yorkie puppy on a platter as a gift. This incident is the very reason that the name “a la' Pom Pon” was added. It translates from French to “a tassel or colorful ball of yarn,” which perfectly described the puppy’s hair.
Mr. and Mrs. Biewer’s Yorkshire Terriers, that produced the black and white Yorkies, came from the Streamglen Kennels. There is some speculation, although not substantiated, that an accidental crossbreeding may have occurred in this kennel that did not show up until some generations later through Mr. Biewer’s dogs. They had 4 Yorkies from the Streamglen kennels, 2 of which produced the black and white colored dogs.
In 1989 when Mr. Biewer signed the standard for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom-Pon, it was that of a Yorkshire Terrier with the coloring being white-blue-gold. The standard was short and brief at that time. Mr. Biewer died in 1997 and his wife Gertrud Biewer has since discontinued her breeding program. She dispersed her dogs to family and friends.
I hope this research helps everyone understand the Biewer Breed...
I love them to death and plan on getting one in the future....Now, to find a good breeder???...lol
Kat

[kat1york]

OMG is Pinehaven gorgeous....Love that he has his tail.
Beautiful Dog!!!
His face looks like the Biewer...
Kat

[KathyRad62]

Originally Posted by AmourYorkies

I just want to know people's opinion on breeding different colored yorkies that aren't the AKC standard such as gold or chocolate.

I'm just an owner not a breeder so I will put my two cents in. I think they are cute but a friend of a friend breeds parti yorkies and standard yorkies and she is getting $4k for her little parti yorkies. I saw the prices at her website and about choked. I think paying $4k for a mixed dog is ridiculous!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

But you missed the point. Partis do not have the required saddle patten. Never have and never will. .

What makes you an authority on this? Just curious because I have seen many with the saddle, in fact I own one. I believe with selective breeding this can be accomplished if this is what is eventually deemed to be the preferred standard.

But since a standard has yet to be set, why do they even need to have the saddle

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

--- Most reputable breeders, be it exhibitors or hobby breeders, would spay,neuter and place any off colored Yorkie produced, including the parents of the offspring if necessary. And, yes, you always have a few "bad apples" in the bunch that lie about their dogs, be it color or health issues. These breeders are eventually found out and they slowly dissappear from the show/reputable breeder scene. I believe there is more lying, cheating and falsifying of records in the bybr scene or the "wanna be" breeders.

Yes this is exactly what I am saying, and that is the best case scenerio, the worst case is that they were drowned (a common practice in the past).

One has to be very nieve to think that show breeders do not cover up their mistakes in order to keep from being shunned by the YTCA. Have you never heard of dying the hair, or putting some hair from the ears into the bands to make their ears stand more to the top of the head, etc. Lord lady this goes on all the time with any show animal.

So recently some of these breeders have decided to thumb thier nose at the YTCA and not hide these beautiful dogs, and that is why they have suddenly started to be known.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by KathyRad62

I'm just an owner not a breeder so I will put my two cents in. I think they are cute but a friend of a friend breeds parti yorkies and standard yorkies and she is getting $4k for her little parti yorkies. I saw the prices at her website and about choked. I think paying $4k for a mixed dog is ridiculous!

She will only sell them to the ignorant and uniformed. Taking a fault and breeding for it and then raising the price over what a beautiful Yorkie that is within standard is ludicrous. However greeders and those ignorant customers who yearn to be different will find each other. If you really desire to be "different" perhaps you ought to find a Yorkie within standard.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by KathyRad62

I think paying $4k for a mixed dog is ridiculous!

Yes thast would be a lot to pay for a MIXED breed, but partis are not MIXED with anything, they come from 2 AKC registered yorkshire terriers. The parti ciolored yorkies are registered with the AKC.