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Old 10-03-2006, 04:57 PM   #1
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Default Questions by a first time yorkie owner (long)

We are training Baloo (12 weeks old) to go outside via the crate method. We've been having problems because he will go in his crate, and I can't figure out if he doesn't mind the mess, or if I'm leaving him in too long and he just can't make it. Here is a typical weekday for him:

6 am: Get up and potty outside
6:30 am: eat
7:15 am: go outside again, then go in crate
11:15 am: I come home from work and let him out for a few minutes, then he eats lunch/water
11:45 am: outside again, back in crate
3:15 pm: I come home from work, let him out
5:30 pm: eat
8:00 pm: last water for the night
9:30 pm: bed
between 1am-2am: go outside

Now my first problem is, I don't think he likes his crate all that much. If we put him in it, he mostly seems to mope/sleep, and he squeaks alot if we aren't in sight. After almost 3 weeks (with us being gone all day to boot 5 days a week), it seems he can't live without us and I thought he would adjust by now. But we always say "crate" and put in a treat or two to entice him to go in, sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't (in which case we place him in there). We usually place him right in front of the door and block his path to anywhere but that door with our body when we say crate to set him up for success.

It is a wire crate with a plastic tray bottom, and we've tried all kinds of bedding. We've let him in there with just the plastic (he seems to like the least), old towels, or a soft doggie mat. Its very easy to see when he messes the kennel with the plastic or mat, but hard with the towels, because after a few hours, it pretty well dries out and folds up and you can't really catch it unless you spend a bit of time searching. He really likes the towels it seems, but since I've found he's messing in the crate more than I thought, I really like to leave him in there with just the plastic to see how well he's really doing cause I may have been missing his messes for a week or two it seems.

Looking at the schedule, he usually only has to make it 4 hours in the crate, and over night, he does quite well, but in the day time, he doesn't do as good. I wonder if sleeping quells his urge to mess which is why the night is better. At 12 weeks, can he hold it 4 hours? Tonight he started squeaking at about 1.5 to 1.75 hours of holding it, and I let him out and he pee'd outside right away. Can anyone offer an explanation of if he can hold it 4 hours, why he doesn't when we leave him in while we are at work until lunch? I've seen suggestions for others the crates may be too big, his I have set up so its about 4 inches of clearance on all sides of him when he's standing up (according to shooterdog.com). Problem is, he still can curl up and sleep in only half the space, you almost need to stick him in a shoe box. Also since we leave him in the crate about 8 hours a day weekdays, how much should we put him in the crate when we are home? I usually let him sit with me on the couch most of the night, but I was reading online stick him in there for like 30-60 mins at a time and let him out to pee and thats it, play with him very little.

Sorry for the long post, very frustrated, he's doing ok, but we are constantly looking for the "right way" to do this.

Last edited by Friley; 10-03-2006 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:04 PM   #2
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I read somewhere where up to I think 6 months, a puppy can hold his bladder as many hours as he is months old. If that is true, then you might be expecting too much. Most puppies don't like to soil their den. Have you considered putting his crate in a utility room or bathroom that you can fence off with a baby gate, or put the crate in an ex-pen? With either set up, you can leave the crate door open and set up an area outside of the crate with a pee pad where baby can go if he can't make it until time to go outside. I know when Gracie was 8-12 weeks old, she would wake me every 3 hours at night to take her to her pee pad. She is now 4 months old and wakes me about every 4 hours to use her pee pad. Last night, she held the poo all night until 5:30 am which is our usual wake-up time.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie2006
I read somewhere where up to I think 6 months, a puppy can hold his bladder as many hours as he is months old. If that is true, then you might be expecting too much. Most puppies don't like to soil their den. Have you considered putting his crate in a utility room or bathroom that you can fence off with a baby gate, or put the crate in an ex-pen? With either set up, you can leave the crate door open and set up an area outside of the crate with a pee pad where baby can go if he can't make it until time to go outside. I know when Gracie was 8-12 weeks old, she would wake me every 3 hours at night to take her to her pee pad. She is now 4 months old and wakes me about every 4 hours to use her pee pad. Last night, she held the poo all night until 5:30 am which is our usual wake-up time.
I thought I might be expecting too much for his age, in which case we'll just have to deal with it for a while. As far as the x-pen/small room idea, when we first got him, I stuck him in a 10x10ft. bathroom with a pad, his crate and food and water. We tried leaving him there 8 hours a day since he had all the essentials. Well, he would pee on the pad about half the time, maybe a bit more, sometimes pee behind the toilet, and he would never poop on the pad, I think he did it only once. Or he would chew the pad to shreds.

Also, we are undecided ourselves if pad training is a good idea or not. We've read a bit about crate training, and it seems most agree that the success of that depends on the dog not going in the house at all, he must learn to go outside. Because even though he goes on the pad, its just training him that messing in the house is ok, and eventually he won't care if its a pad, the carpet, a rug, whatever. So thats why we started doing the outside thing, and I like the idea of my house not smelling like pee/poop on the pad. I'm not sure which way is good since most people on here have good success with it.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:45 PM   #4
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I must be really lucky because I have a 13-week-old puppy, and I'm using the pee pads right now. He rarely has an accident and always goes on his pad. Most nights he will sleep through the night, but sometimes he wakes up and has to go. He sleeps with my hubby and me, and he's too little to get off the bed, so he will bark to let us know he needs to go. Since he is so good about using the pads, we have been letting him run free.

We decided to use the pee pads since he is really small, and we thought it would be easier for him, as well as safer since he's too little to use a leash, and we don't want to take him outside without one. Eventually, we will start moving the pad closer to the door and then outdoor train him.

I got him when he was 9 weeks old, and I showed him where his pad was by putting him on it and saying "potty" several times. I got lucky that he had to go right at that time, so I praised him ALOT and he has been good about it ever since. We don't have to leave him alone very often since my hubby and I work different shifts, but on the occasion we leave him, we leave him in our bedroom with the door closed. He has his own bed and his crate of toys in there, plus his pee pad and his food and water. He does fine and always uses the pad. We also keep his crate in there with the door open since he sometimes likes to sleep in there.

When you were keeping him in the bathroom, did you leave him plenty of toys to play with and chew toys so that he doesn't get bored and chew his pad? Your puppy is still very young, I think it just takes lots of patience. I'm glad I've lucked out so far.....let's hope mine doesn't regress lol

Good luck to you!
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friley
I thought I might be expecting too much for his age, in which case we'll just have to deal with it for a while. As far as the x-pen/small room idea, when we first got him, I stuck him in a 10x10ft. bathroom with a pad, his crate and food and water. We tried leaving him there 8 hours a day since he had all the essentials. Well, he would pee on the pad about half the time, maybe a bit more, sometimes pee behind the toilet, and he would never poop on the pad, I think he did it only once. Or he would chew the pad to shreds.
Gracie will miss her pee pad every once in a while. Either she just gets too close to the edge or she had been playing with her toys and ended up getting the pads all wadded up, or shredded up! They are just puppies yet. I used a pad that I got at PetSmart called Rapid Start, I think. They worked really well. Now I use any brand that is on sale. I praise Gracie when she goes outside, so she knows it is OK to go outside. We have not worked very hard on potty training her outside yet. Part of me wants to, and part of me enjoys the convenience of the pads. I have seen where some do all outside, some all inside, and some do a combo. It's your choice.
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Old 10-03-2006, 05:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracie2006
Gracie will miss her pee pad every once in a while. Either she just gets too close to the edge or she had been playing with her toys and ended up getting the pads all wadded up, or shredded up! They are just puppies yet. I used a pad that I got at PetSmart called Rapid Start, I think. They worked really well. Now I use any brand that is on sale. I praise Gracie when she goes outside, so she knows it is OK to go outside. We have not worked very hard on potty training her outside yet. Part of me wants to, and part of me enjoys the convenience of the pads. I have seen where some do all outside, some all inside, and some do a combo. It's your choice.
In my opinion, a combo of outside and pads works best. That would accommodate alot of different situations such as bad weather, the pup being ill or just having surgery, the owner being too ill to go out, etc.
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:48 PM   #7
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We too do a combo of pads and outside, and it works well. She has her pads in her pen and in the bathroom to use inside throughout the day when we're home and not home, and she will go outside when we're visiting somewhere or on a walk. We live in a condo, so pee pads or a litter box was the best choice for us. It's nice to have both options available.
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Old 10-03-2006, 07:06 PM   #8
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You didn't say how big the crate is, or if you are crating him while you are home, other than sleeping, and you didn't mention walks or exercise.

To crate train successfully, they need to be walked or played with in the morning before you leave for work. Vigorous play that will tire them out and make them ready to nap. The same thing at noon, and before bed

I also would not feed him at noon, but wait till 3:30 and then again about an hour before bed. Is 9:30 your bed time. I would hold off putting him down for the night until I went to bed.

The crate should be small enough so that there is no room for him to potty other than his bed. Since he has started pottying in this crate, he might continue. I would suggest a small travel crate, the smallest you can buy. There should be just enough room for them to turn around. You might have to put a box in it to block off the back of it till he gets bigger.

If you want to use the wire crate, and it is big enough, you can put a bed in it, or a travel crate, and a pee pad. so there is only room for his bed and the pee pad.
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Old 10-04-2006, 06:16 AM   #9
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If the pads are not working for him in his 10x10 room, you can also try little training. Sometimes they like this method better. Hope you are able to find a workable solution.
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:05 AM   #10
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Cozy holds her bladder from 11 at night to 7 in the morning while she is sleeping but during the day she goes outside every 2-3 hours. She knows that she must go potty before she can go into the house otherwise she must be confined which she hates.
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Old 10-06-2006, 07:48 AM   #11
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You said it exactly like I was thinking. The smallest travel crate is what I have always used for all of my dogs as puppies Then as they get bigger I move up to a bigger size. Although I think Lily will be in the small one forever. I think they feel more secure in them because it has the plastic surrounding them and no room for messing. I even put a little blanket over the sides and back so they don't feel a draft. Definately WEAR YOUR PUPPY OUT while he is awake. The more exhausted he is when you put him in the crate the better the success in crate training. I don't put anything but a warm pad(made for crates) and maybe one safe toy. Lily does fine for 3-4 hours in her crate if I have to leave her during the day, and she sleep from 10:30-8:30am through the night without waking up. I guess I have been lucky, she has slept through the night since I got her and never had an accident in her crate. She is such a good little girl! Just be consistent and stick with the same routine as much as possible until he is trained. I would keep him out as much as possible while you are home and tire him out. Good Luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK
You didn't say how big the crate is, or if you are crating him while you are home, other than sleeping, and you didn't mention walks or exercise.

To crate train successfully, they need to be walked or played with in the morning before you leave for work. Vigorous play that will tire them out and make them ready to nap. The same thing at noon, and before bed

I also would not feed him at noon, but wait till 3:30 and then again about an hour before bed. Is 9:30 your bed time. I would hold off putting him down for the night until I went to bed.

The crate should be small enough so that there is no room for him to potty other than his bed. Since he has started pottying in this crate, he might continue. I would suggest a small travel crate, the smallest you can buy. There should be just enough room for them to turn around. You might have to put a box in it to block off the back of it till he gets bigger.

If you want to use the wire crate, and it is big enough, you can put a bed in it, or a travel crate, and a pee pad. so there is only room for his bed and the pee pad.
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