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Old 03-14-2005, 05:44 PM   #1
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Cry I'm feeling discouraged...

I feel like I really am in need of more advice.

Our little Rocky is 11 months old today. We have had some issues with him behavior wise and just when I thought we were having a breakthrough, things went really horribly tonight.

Rocky bites and chews on everything, but he has been making some improvements in this area. He is not growling at us or barking when we reprimand QUITE as much, but certainly is not over it. I think the clicker training has helped, but I feel frustrated because I've never trained a dog so stubborn or seemingly aggressive.

Tonight we had a couple of our friends over. They brought their puppy, a baby yellow lab, over to play. Last weekend we visited their house and the two got along great! We thought we should get together again because this is the only dog that Rocky has been socialized with up until this point and we wanted to continue that relationship. Rocky was VERY aggressive towards the little tiny puppy tonight and they ended up in quite the scuffle. I had to pull him off of her and he clamped my hand so hard, I couldn't pry him off of it fast enough. He drew blood on me and my whole hand is really swollen. Do you think this had to do with territorial issues? I know that he thought he was biting the little puppy and not me, but I'm still concerned.

He has become somewhat sweeter and calmer with us, but I'm afraid he won't get over this aggressive streak... or is it just his temperament and not a streak? If I put him in puppy classes, I'm afraid he will attack the other dogs as well. He came from a good breeder who is well known for the temperaments of her dogs. Is there hope for me and my little baby who I love so much?

Karen
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:10 PM   #2
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OH DEAR, Karen, I am sorry to hear that playtime didnt go very well this time.

I am sure its a territorial thing, maybe they should play at a park, outdoors, but on a leash w/harness, so if this happens again, you can seperate the playmates, without getting your limbs bitten.

Puppy class may help, I am sure the trainer would know how to handle this issue.

I hope you washed your hand well, after being biten, also Neosporin ointment will help with the healing, you can purchase it over the counter at any pharmacy.

Good luck, and dont give up, I am sure Rocky had a reason for his behavior.

Scratchies to all the babies from...
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:26 PM   #3
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Oh don't get discouraged it will get better with a lil patience and training. I have seen many puppies where we train go through the same thing. I hope everything goes better for you

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Old 03-14-2005, 06:26 PM   #4
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Default Rocky

He is living up to his name as a fighter..!
Is he neutered..if not do it now. He is agressive and doing what an agressive dog does..defend and fight the invader. I would put him in a pen in another room and not allow him to act bad..habits are hard to undo..try to prevent his bad hehavior by watching for situations that trigger him.

Roicky sounds like he has the misconception he is leader of your pack...this may sound mean, but I have had a few challenge my role as leader. They must be taken down just as the leader dog would do..sometimes that means you must be aggressive with him. Your body language is important, tone of voice, eye contact is vital. Never divert your eyes away from his when correcting him..the first one to look away loses in the dog world. Take him by the neck skin, firmly like the leader dog and shake gently, take him to the floor. You should grasp his leg or hip area so as not to hurt him. Correct in a firm voice.

Never allow him to enter the house ahead of you or go out first. Leader goes first. I would not allow him to sleep with humans..gives him the idea he is equal...if he sleeps on your pillow above your head, he is telling you he is higher in rank..a low voiced, gentle approach usually does not work at this age and level of aggression. Of course striking or a slap is never used..I know you do not hit him..but you must think like a leader dog and act towards him in the same way they would...and the leader dog can be scary towards the ones who forget their position in the pack.
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:33 PM   #5
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Very,very good advice from YorkieRose. If you will stick it our and go the distance with him using the aproach that YorkieRose has given, I think things will work themselves out. Just remember, be very consistent.
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Old 03-16-2005, 11:53 AM   #6
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Oh my gosh! There is so much going on in this post – I don’t even know where to start! Yorkierose talks about dominance. This is one approach, or way of thinking about your situation. Looking with a social hierarchy in mind, you can try to determine what was going on in your dog’s head when he bit you. This isn’t going to be easy to do, if you look at it from this angle and you aren’t sure what you are seeing, then you may already be at the point where you need the help of a pro. After reading my post, you may decide that this is the best way to go (calling in a dog trainer, that is). IF so, I say go for it!

Of course, from MY angle, in front of this computer screen, having not seen what happened first and what you, your dog, and the other dog were doing at the time the incident took place, I am really not in a position, either, to make a “diagnosis.” Sometimes we think we saw or did one thing, and in fact, something else was actually happening. What your dog reacted to and how you and the other dog responded could very well of caused that bite and you are not even aware of it. In such instances, you really need another pair of educated eyes to figure what really happened (just the other night in agility practice, I thought I had told my dog
“get out” which means, move away from me, but instead he took the tunnel obstacle right next to my foot. I was mad at him. Then my trainer said: “look at your hand.” Rather than my hand facing outward, away from my body, it was facing downward, towards my toe – exactly where he had gone. What would have happened if I had “punished him” for not “listening to me”? How confused would he have been? How terribly unfair would that have been to him?).

There are many reasons why dogs bite, just like there are many reasons why people scream at one another or physically attack one another. Expecting that a dog will never bite or never growl is as incomprehensible as expecting that a person will never get angry or throw a punch. Some people have higher anger thresholds than others, and the same it true for dogs. So it’s hard to come up with a blanket explanation of what is going on or, for that matter, a blanket explanation as to how to solve the problem. I have had aggressive dogs, two of my own and more I have worked with. One was aggressive because he was driven a bit nuts, living with young children. He thought he needed to protect himself from kids who thought him a plaything. We had a little girl who really did have social climbing issues. When you caught her doing something she wasn’t supposed to be doing (like peeing on the floor), before you said or did anything, she’d already be growling at you. If you dared to scold her, she would go into another room and then find a convenient place to life her leg (this is a very different behavior from the kind seen in fearful dogs who will wet themselves upon being scolded). Conversely, I now have a dog who puts on a big show of bravado, but it stems from his complete lack of early socialization and what truly amounts to an attempt to hide his fear (he attacks big dogs that seem “Scary” to him, but leaves quite, laid back dogs alone). He isn’t really social climbing. From what you have said about your own dog, and the fact that he is a small breed (a Yorkie), his motivations may be like the latter example of my own dog. He may be over-reacting to his fear because he hasn’t been given lessons by other dogs on how to behave in their company and/or he is frighten and hopes to chaise off that which is scaring him (and yes, an overly exuberant puppy can frighten an inexperienced dog).

With me so far? From your post I am guessing two things 1) you have had dogs before and 2) you have some knowledge of clicker training. Do you understand the THEORY behind clicker training? I am going to suggest you use clicker training to solve your problems (or at least to start solving them) because clicker training is based on a behaviorist, as opposed to dominance theory of training dogs. In other words, rather than looking at what causes the behavior, which in this instance we wont be able to tell, behaviorist look at how they can modify or change it. In other words, “I am not interested in knowing what was in your head or your emotional motivation when you screamed at me, I want to make it so that talking politely to me is more motivating to you so that you choose to speak softly to me the next time we interact.” This is going to be an easier way for you to begin to handle your problem before it escalates out of control. You don’t need to know what’s the root of your dog’s troubles, you just need to come up with counter behaviors that you approve of. Jean Donaldson has come out with two books I really suggest you take a look at: The Culture Clash, and Fight! Both are available from http://www.dogwise.com Fight! will be especially helpful in looking at your dog’s aggressive tendencies and how to deal with them. She talks about everything I have written here, more clearly and in much more detail, and breaks down the kinds of aggression dogs show and how to modify the behavior. She also explains when things cannot be fixed.

One thing that troubles me about your post: your dog is 11 months and has only been exposed to one other dog? Or I am I misunderstanding something? Do you take him with you when you go outside? Does he meet people? Has he been on trips before? If not, you must start socializing him NOW. He is still young so you have a lot of opportunity to change things around, but the longer you wait, the harder this is going to be for both of you. Perhaps, instead of your standard puppy kindergarten, you should see if you can sign up for a semi-private or small group obedience class. This will be a much more controlled setting in which your dog will get to be around and meet other dogs. I would not force anything at first, just let him be in a room with other dogs and have to interact with you. Over time, you can get closer to these other dog/handler teams and begin your introductions, under the watchful eye of the instructor. But the important thing is to get him out and around other dogs! HE will learn a lot from watching their cues and studying the signals they give him. Dog communicate with body language and a dog who does not learn proper canine body language is like a foreigner in a country where he cannot speak the language.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:07 PM   #7
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Default Rocky

I have been trying to read the archives to see if Rocky is the aggressive boy who bit a child on the face. There are several posts as I recall here or on ********* posted by owners of biting Yrokies. They were so concerned because it was beyond playfullness., infact one person needed stitches..I think Yorkipower makes a good suggestion to seek out the advise of a professional trainer.
I have had to work with a few rescues that were biters, once we got our roles straight, which was advise from a Dobie trainer, they changed and did excellent. Good luck to you.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:50 PM   #8
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Thanks everyone for your helpful advice! I made a HUGE mistake in my original post... Rocky is 11 WEEKS old, not months! I can't believe I wrote that!

I have called a local dog trainer who I have heard rave reviews about. He is coming to our house for a consultation. Also, we will be starting him in some puppy classes the next time a round starts.

He can be a sweetheart, don't get me wrong! I love him to pieces! He seems to really listen to and obey my husband... at least considerably better than me! I don't get it because we do the SAME things. My husband thinks it's laughable... I don't find it so funny I am just afraid to say oh it's puppy behavior and then be suprised later when he bites a child (heaven forbid!).

He is not the puppy who bit another child. This incident that I wrote about is the first and only serious biting incident.

Thanks again for all of your advice and keep it coming
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:25 PM   #9
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I've been reading the posts regarding Rocky going after the yellow lab. My situation is a little different. My 9 year old black lab went after my 11 week old yorkie. The lab is and has always been really good, not aggressive and has always acted good around other dogs. The reason he went after Lucy (my yorkie) is because he had a toy in his mouth and she was being playful and started pouncing at him and he thought she was going after his toy and thought no way and he went after her. I don't know if he bit her but there seemed to be no physical injury, although she was screaming like there was but I checked her out. She has some issues going on right now since this incident like developing a phobia with eating, not sure why but I had a vet. check her out and they could find nothing wrong with her. But anyway, that is a different issue I'm trying to deal with. My main concern is that this lab of ours who has always been real good seems to dislike her getting near him. He is fine if she is not bugging him but once she seems to be heading his way, he has this low growl (he does not show his teeth, just growls). I tell him no and then I sit by him and make sure he feels he is getting attention. I really didn't think I would be dealing with this bringing her home especially since she is female and not a male where he would feel like he had to be dominant. After him going at her you would think she would be scared of him but she isn't; she keeps trying to get him to play. Any suggestions on how to get my lab to accept my yorkie? I've been trying to keep them apart; if I see her head towards him, I quickly go by him and tell him to be good but it scares me, one wrong move by her and she could be his lunch (80+ pounds vs 3 pounds). Should I continue keeping them separated until she is out of puppy stage or is there something else I should try???? Help!!!!
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Old 03-16-2005, 05:19 PM   #10
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11 weeks..LOL Rocky sounds normal. He did not mean to bite you..you happened to get your hands in the way. He did mean to "attack" the Lab, that is what Yorkies tend to do..they have no concept of their size and go after huge dogs. I had a male attack my brothers collie. I looked out the back window and this poor collie was walking around the yard with a 4 pound Yorkie hanging from his neck. I had to pry Gus's teeth out of his neck.

Right now I have 4 girls...two are 15 weeks and two are 5 months. We call them "Pit Yorkies"..and the one pounder is the worst of the bunch.

Lucy's mom..I would keep them apart unless you can watch them closely. Pups can be pests..even my adult Yorkies will take only so many bites on the legs or ears, then growl at them. I always have a day bed or couch in the doggy area so the adults can get away from the kids.
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Old 03-16-2005, 06:30 PM   #11
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Default Socializing/Training Rocky?

Sounds like Rocky has bonded with your Husband instead of you? He sounds like a typical machismo male. When I got my Artie, he was already 20 weeks old. The Breeder that I purchased him from, purchased him to breed w/her 3 females, unfortunately for her he grew too big for her purposes. He is 6 lbs. and 14 months old now. He started traveling by car/plane only after 2 weeks he hardly had time to settle down? He has been thru busy airports, cocktail/dinner parties, BBQ's, Flea Markets, surfing @ Coco Beach, floating on an air mattress in the middle of Lake Shasta. He has been around children from infants to teens and we take our daily walk with a 80 yr. old friend who has an 8 yr. old Yorkie/senior male. He seems to know who he can be rough with and who he needs to be delicate with? Every day he goes to the Dog Park here in Myrtle Beach, SC. He runs up to every dog and human with no fear and he never backs down, they have their own language! Rocky's young enough that there's hope, you have to Socialize him in every situation. Even with other dogs and animals. Artie has also been around skunks, racoons, cats, squirrels, even mules/horses. I think you need to decide what kind of pet do you really want? There are 2 sides to every story, a catch22. Since he is so well socialized we can't go anywhere in a hurry, he want's to greet and see everyone and if he is off his leash, he will run towards anyone not safe in this day and age for obvious reasons. He is an Angel and I don't have any problems,
because I understand his behavior. Both Petco and Petsmart told me not to bother putting him in the Puppy Class. So I did'nt! Just remember that every moment is Training to them. They are always learning from you, you are their example. I hope things work out.....you should also think about getting him nuetered as soon as he is old enough? That helps their temperment alot. It also sounds like you are not the pack leader in his eyes? Let us know how it goes with the Trainer? I'm curious what his diagnosis is of your situation?
I know we lead by example, I know you have to be Alpha. Artie is so sensitive that he can tell by my voice what I expect of him, not only what or how I say it, my tone, my mood, etc. These are great dogs/pets/fur persons if they are trained properly. As cute and cuddly, sweet, adorable and lovable they can be manipulating, sneaky and down right honory/stubborn! I can assure you of 2 things, one is the first year is the hardest, they mellow out afterwards and lastly no matter how much we dress them in cute outfits and even bows they are still males and terriers, even if they're only 6 pounds! Good Luck!
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Old 03-18-2005, 04:42 PM   #12
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I am SOOOOO glad you have involved a professional trainer.I had a Japenese Chin who was 10 lbs fully grown, and took on any dog or person other than our imediate family. When we got him at 12 weeks and he was as sweet as can be. When he started showing signs of aggression we laughed it off, thinking it was cute to see a toy dog who thinks he's an attack dog. By the time we realized it wasn't just a show, he actually was a threat, I was unable to train him. After the first few times he bit my daughter's friends (I KNOW NOW it shouldn't have taken more than once) we put him in his crate when we had company. Even if we placed him in the basement in his crate he would not stop throwing himself against the sides if company was in the house. Needless to say, he was too aggressive to take him anywhere, he barked and growled the whole time! I should mention, we neutered him at 16 weeks, so that was not the issue. It broke my heart when he started to bite the kids and my husband as well. At the time he was 15 months old and we could not afford a trainer, and there were none closer than 70 miles anyway, so we took him back to the breeder. Anyway the point of this whole thing is don't laugh off aggressive behavior address it quickly before it is too late. An agressive dog IS NOT FUNNY!!!
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