Training issue: Who's right? Me or my wife?

[Gennies]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Most, if not all scientific research in the past fifteen years has debunked the idea of alpha/beta/omega ranking in dogs. There's a great book that covers recent canine research:

Amazon.com: Dog Sense: How the New Science of Dog Behavior Can Make You A Better Friend to Your Pet (9780465019441): John Bradshaw: Books

One thing that "alpha-ness" doesn't address is that different resources may be more or less important to a given dog at any time. A non-confrontational dog may change his stripes when he's hungry. Or maybe one dog always gets human affection first, but doesn't care about toys particularly.

I have seen two contradicting arguments based on alpha theory on possessiveness. The first says that you should allow dogs to work it out among themselves, because dogs are happier when they know their place. The second says that you should not allow this kind of behavior, or even force the possessive dog into "last" place, because not intervening displaces you as the ultimate alpha.

Since there's no evidence for either side of the argument as far as I know, I vote for doing whatever you want. But of course, the wife is always right.



Up with four-kneed elephants!

I agree w/QS in the argument of Alpha. But I base this on the fact that mine (all 4 of them) all get along well and don't fight each other for Alpha. I feel that I am the leader and I say who gets what and who plays with what. Now dh disagrees and thinks they should all get and do everything the same all the time. As to where I believe in favorites ( Yes, I said it....something a mother should never admit, but I have favorites....doesn't mean I don't love the nonfavorites just that I connect with the favorites more and I show it to a degree) Like if it's just me normally I only walk the girls....well Bambi's had one walk but that's cause I just now believe she's covered from her shots as it's been over a month since she's gotten the final shot. I will occasionally take the GP Garrett (depending on the heat) but Barley I'll never take again as he turns into a devil on the leash so DH walks him.

My GP is a push over to the little yorkies so they would take from him all the time if I didn't step in. They know his favorite toy and would rip it apart if I let them. But I tell them no and give them one of their favorite toys. Lucky for me redirect normally works if not I put the favorite toy they want up and say no.

I see Barley trying to bully Garrett in other ways too....like jumping up and biting Garrett's sides when they get excited to go outside or something. I tell Barley no for these behavior and give him a look of seriousness and then I lavish Garrett w/affection for being such a tolerant big brother. Barley gets jealous of that and stopped doing it. Is it right or wrong I don't know BUT it works for me. Just my two cents.

[ArmaniMan]

Unless there is a serious argument I let them work it out, it might not be "fair" by our standards, but if Armani steals a toy from Chloe, so be it- I will not intervene. There are 100's of toys in the house, she can get another one. If a fight breaks out over something, toy, treat, whatever- the object is removed from the equation, neither one of them gets it. I personally feel there are less problems when they are allowed to work things out themselves.

[katy-yorkie]

Maggie is the alpha dog at our house. She takes what she wants when she wants it. If she wants Buster's flossie, the minute he stops chewing, she gets it. It's still in his possession, he's just stopped chewing to look up or whatever. She goes back to where she was chewing hers, lays down on it covering it up, and now she has both of them. She will eat the food out of his bowl before she eats hers and he won't dare touch her bowl. If there is a toy she wants, he gives it up. I intervene alot of the time although I shouldn't but he won't 'man up'. I wish I could find a dog behaviorist, not a trainer that calls her a bullie.

[mom of 3 dogs]

i voted Other. sometimes i will decide if i see unfairness, and somtimes they will work it out

[Ringo1]

I vote for let the Alpha take the toys. Ringo was a very jealous Alpha Male and he established that right away. Well, and we already knew that. Had I tried to force him into a 'lower' position - I don't think he could have tolerated another dog in the house. Lucy is pretty submissive to him - although she initiates all the play - and he is very tolerant of her pawing at his face and juking all around him.

As it is now - it seems like different things are important to them. Lucy takes most of the toys and right of his mouth. He's just not that interested.

She leads on our walks because he likes to go really slow and sniff everything.

But, if there were bones lying around (there aren't); Ringo would take them and Lucy would let him. Food/bones are more important to Ringo. That said, I can't let him take her food - so we feed separately and keep an eye out.

He has ONE favorite toy and whenever she gets it and parades around with it - he takes it right out of her mouth. She lets him.

It seems to me that they have worked out what's what. Had I intervened too much in the beginning - Ringo would have been in a jealous rage all the time - and would have taken his frustration out on Lucy.

[gemy]

Other: Not in our household. Magic our BRT is never allowed to take any toy, or any food from Razzle. He is also not allowed to take others food either, including bones.
Razzle would love to be alpha, but Magic is not giving up his spot anytime soon.

Zoey does try at times to dominate Magic; sometimes he lets her, for eg: go out the door first. But if he wants the toy she has, she may resist a bit, he gives a certain kind of growl and she just let's go.

[AprilLove]

Interesting thread... I just voted for your wife, because we all know the wife is always right

But really, I have an alpha type here, and let her take what she wants if the other(s) don't object. But if it is something I know the other one wants, I give it back, and give the alpha something else. Maybe it is not text book, but it works for us. And, she will just sit there and wait for the other to drop said item before she goes back for it again.
I really do believe it is individual to you and your dogs, not a one method fits all way to do it

[YorkieMother]

Well since dogs unless they are in a unnatural pack as i Cesers band of misfits are not a pack and are not dominate/alpha or anything but a family. I say Eddie is a bit of a bully at times and that he needs to learn good doggy manners.

I say have a look at what temple grandin and many others are saying about alpha used with dogs in a normal set up.

JL

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

Well since dogs unless they are in a unnatural pack as i Cesers band of misfits are not a pack and are not dominate/alpha or anything but a family. I say Eddie is a bit of a bully at times and that he needs to learn good doggy manners.

I say have a look at what temple grandin and many others are saying about alpha used with dogs in a normal set up.

JL

It would make sense if he were a bully. Like owner, like dog. Mike probably doesn't even allow Eddie to have TWO knees.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

It would make sense if he were a bully. Like owner, like dog. Mike probably doesn't even allow Eddie to have TWO knees.

I would not say that either. I know perfectly wonderful human beings with the worse dogs through no fault of their own,

I personally am a mother to an aggressive dog but even though she is possessive aggressive she will share with the new pup. If pup has it she will wait until pup drops it and then take it. Pup gets told by her once in Her mouth you dropped it is mine. the only time we get into a tussle is if I goof and leave a high value treat like a bully stick down and then the possessive aggression kicks in it not alpha it is simple I value that, that is important to me and no way are you having it. So I manage that better, both go into their safe places for that level of treat and do not come out until both are finished or put away.

JL

[QuickSilver]

I was just joking. Mike has an issue with knees. He tends to undercount them.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I was just joking. Mike has an issue with knees. He tends to undercount them.

You really want to tease the self proclaimed "male leader" of YT?

[alaskayorkie]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

You really want to tease the self proclaimed "male leader" of YT?

You shush! I almost burst a blood vessel in my forehead after your antics!

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

You shush! I almost burst a blood vessel in my forehead after your antics!

UhOh! Do you think you'll be able to handle us all by yourself?

[Princess10]

Nice avatar, Mikey. Wait til the REAL "Sexy Knees" sees it. Oooooh, big trouble Mister!