6+years, doing better!

[Luvdogs2]

I first want to thank you all that posted in my recently closed thread for all the help and suggestions you made. They have been helping and we are showing progress.

I have been seeing success in Bdog sitting at each door and she has not made one mess in the apartment for the last week. My fiance has had the week off of work too, so that I'm sure has something to do with it.

We did have a bit of an argument last night because she fell asleep on the couch and I was doing homework. She got up to go to bed and she opens the door and takes her out. Since I sit right next to the door in this apartment (if you walk in the door, you look right into the computer room) I did not hear her put the leash on and ask her to speak to go outside. I hear her go down the hallway and it's just opening doors and going outside...

Now some of you know that I'm working on NILF and also to go outside, she is required to speak so hopefully she will get in the habit of barking at the door to let us know she needs to go outside and do her business. I stand at the door to listen on the activity to come back inside...it's opening doors and no sitting at each door, just ignoring the routine I have been working very hard on over the last week when I take her out.

I ask her why she did that and I got the rolling of the eyes and instant defense on she doesn't need to do it every time....

I was mad. I tried to explain that this isn't when we feel like it and it's not at our convenience or this isn't going to work. I told her it's not a "I'm late for work and we can skip this part" or "I'm tired so we'll do that again tomorrow" sort of thing. It's EVERY time and by BOTH of us. She didn't want to hear it and shut the door on me.

I went back to doing homework but I was pretty upset that she did that (the door and the training failure).

When I asked her a few days ago how Bdog did over the weekend when I got back, she appeared to have that look like she was being creative when she was answering me - which left me to wonder if she wasn't telling me the truth or if she was doing this every time and now I think I have my answer.

I also have been noticing that Bdog has been given those white rolled up chewy treats more. I asked to stop giving them last week while we train and work on this more. She is more aggressive with them and she gets neurotic when she has one and can't get at it (other room or if you put it up for a while and want to play or train). She doesn't seem to really pay attention when you are working with her and I told my fiance that she needs to avoid putting them into the equation while we work on this (and it avoids the additional aggressive behavior).

I told her today that when my schedule is a bit less demanding, we are getting a trainer. I don't TELL her many things but this one she isn't going to have a choice. I feel that if she isn't going to listen to me and work with me, a professional might make her listen a bit more and get her on the same page (and it will help me too where I may be making mistakes)

As far as Bdog goes, she is really liking the additional treats and attention. She doesn't need to be told half the time to sit at the doors and she's jumping in my lap a bit more. I can see progress myself, but I only wonder if my fiance is really working that hard at this and if not, how much further she might be if she was.

[Deuce]

"I told her today that when my schedule is a bit less demanding, we are getting a trainer. I don't TELL her many things but this one she isn't going to have a choice. I feel that if she isn't going to listen to me and work with me, a professional might make her listen a bit more and get her on the same page (and it will help me too where I may be making mistakes)"

It's doubtful that anyone can force her to listen to anything regarding her dog. She has to want to listen and do what needs to be done, and you can't take away her right to not do anything.
If you don't like this situation then walk away now, as it appears from this post, and many preceding it that you and your "fiance" have many many many issues with communication and don't see eye-to-eye and you are using the pup as a control tool. Couples counceling would be more beneficial and may save your relationship, before it completely unravels before your eyes. To continue to lecture her, and try to force things on her may just make her less and less willing to listen, even if she knows that it needs to be done and she can see that it's working. Before hiring a trainer that your fiance may be opposed to anyway (Not only are you telling her how to care and train her dog, but now this person that she doesn't know is coming into her home and again telling her what to do??). JMO

[DamSweet]

Originally Posted by Deuce

"I told her today that when my schedule is a bit less demanding, we are getting a trainer. I don't TELL her many things but this one she isn't going to have a choice. I feel that if she isn't going to listen to me and work with me, a professional might make her listen a bit more and get her on the same page (and it will help me too where I may be making mistakes)"

It's doubtful that anyone can force her to listen to anything regarding her dog. She has to want to listen and do what needs to be done, and you can't take away her right to not do anything.
If you don't like this situation then walk away now, as it appears from this post, and many preceding it that you and your "fiance" have many many many issues with communication and don't see eye-to-eye and you are using the pup as a control tool. Couples counceling would be more beneficial and may save your relationship, before it completely unravels before your eyes. To continue to lecture her, and try to force things on her may just make her less and less willing to listen, even if she knows that it needs to be done and she can see that it's working. Before hiring a trainer that your fiance may be opposed to anyway (Not only are you telling her how to care and train her dog, but now this person that she doesn't know is coming into her home and again telling her what to do??). JMO

I have been watching for a new thread from Luvdogs2 to see the progress he is making with Bdog. It’s good to hear that there were no more accidents (I wish I could say the same – but it’s coming). I do agree with Deuces comments. I went through a similar situation with my fiancé’ when my daughter and I moved in to his home. He began telling me how I should raise MY daughter. I felt that since she wasn’t his – he didn’t have the same bond with her – he didn’t know what he was talking about. He was being a “Control Freak”! And had I of been more secure in myself I would have left him over that. So when he was around I did just what he suggested and when he was gone (he was an OTR truck driver at the time) I did things my way. I was compensating for the guilt I felt by breaking up her home. I eventually realized that the input from someone that was seeing things from a different angle than me was beneficial. But in the mean time – I really began resenting this man…HOW DARE HE TELL ME WHAT TO DO. So yes – I can see where this can be a problem in a relationship. Will you be able to compromise when it’s a child? Not everyone thinks the same – and there is nothing wrong with that – but there has to be an understanding between the two of you.

We go through this somewhat with our girls (Bridget and Greta)only now the shoe was on the other foot. Tony (the fiancé ) likes to give them treats – Bridget has LP and the vet would like to see her lose a bit of weight, and Greta seems to have a bit of a sensitive stomach – so as much as it’s making HIM feel good giving them something – it is NOT good for them. Loving them (child or pet) does not mean letting them have or do whatever they want. It’s teaching the right things to do to be a better person or companion. (I wish my fiancé’s mother would have taught him that!!) I think I finally got it through his head when I explained the damage he is doing to them, that either one could face surgery – or worse, if he doesn’t stop, or at least change what he is giving them. Just as he did when he finally made me realize how my daughter may turn out if I gave in to her whim without teaching her that there is a result from every action and choice she makes. She has grown into a wonderful young woman who has on more than one occassion thanked me for doing so many (not all) things Tony's way.

I did see though that Luvdogs2 said that he DOESN’T TELL HER many things – but he feels strongly about this, and I give him a lot of credit for that. He is trying – and he is trying hard – it would be so much easier to just throw up his hands and say this is not my dog – therefore not my responsibility.
I know that you’ve said that re-homing is not an option – and I don’t think it would be if I were in your shoes either - but let me ask you – does she feel the same way? If she does truly love this dog, and wants to keep her in your family you two need to sit down and discuss what is best for Bdog. You can’t force your fiancé to do anything she doesn’t WANT to do – but if she truly loves this dog and you suggest to her to have a trainer come in to give his opinion – you’ll make a deal with her, that if the trainer says there is no problem – you will back off and let her continue to do things her way. (I think this is what is called a run-on sentence) But if he does see a problem – she must either get in the program or suggest finding a home for Bdog. If she truly loves Bdog she will do whatever is necessary. I’m not saying to give her an ultimatum – just an agreement that you will both live by.

I think of you as a very smart man who will do what ever it takes to correct something. You will not fail if at all possible. If your fiancée agrees to this but falls down on her end and you find yourselves re-homing Bdog (because you’ve made the agreement) – you have NOT failed – at least not in my eyes. You would have made the ultimate sacrifice and succeeded in giving Bdog the home she deserves. Not to say that your home is not a good home - just maybe one that isn't so confusing to her. Again – I know you say re-homing is NOT an option – but as Deuces said – this may cause a lot of problems between you and your fiancée - is that something you’re willing to sacrifice?

I think you really love Bdog, and I truly wish you nothing but the best.

I apologize for the length; I probably should have sent this in a PM, but got going and couldn’t stop.
Again – these are just my thought and opinions – everybody has one (or two)

[kjc]

DF may be feeling resentful, because you have been able to get Bdog started with her training and had some success where she had given up trying to train her in the past.

When DF does make an effort, is Bdog being responsive to her? Maybe remind her how nice it's been not having to clean up after Bdog, as she used to do before the training began. Small occasional slips shouldn't effect Bdog's training too much. Look how far she's come already.

[QuickSilver]

A week of no accidents is HUGE! That means she understands the concept. Thor had a few more slip ups after he went 3 days without an accident, but each time he went went longer, and when he went a month accident-free, I proclaimed him trained.

I'm a big fan of NILF.

I have not had to train a dog with a partner, so not much advice there. Well, some. Remember: nagging almost never works; you can't *make* someone else change; and both dogs and people respond better to positive reinforcement.

Congratulations on your recent successes. I'm sure there are more to come.

I do think a trainer is a great idea, and can help both of you. It's often easier to take advice from an objective expert than your SO.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2

I also have been noticing that Bdog has been given those white rolled up chewy treats more. I asked to stop giving them last week while we train and work on this more. She is more aggressive with them and she gets neurotic when she has one and can't get at it (other room or if you put it up for a while and want to play or train). She doesn't seem to really pay attention when you are working with her and I told my fiance that she needs to avoid putting them into the equation while we work on this (and it avoids the additional aggressive behavior).

If these are rawhide chews, I cannot stress enough how dangerous they are. In addition to being a choking hazzard, they can also get stuck anywhere along the alimentary tract and cause a blockage, which would most likely require surgery to correct. You're probably thinking,' Well, she's never had a problem with them yet', I would say she's been lucky up to this point. These things are a time bomb. One day it will happen.

If you all are going to continue with the rawhide, at least read these links:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-maneuver.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...uture-use.html

And be sure to keep the number and address of a 24 hour Emergency Vet Clinic handy for when you need it.


I can't let Tinkerbell have any large balls to play with. She gets too zoned in on them, and can turn aggressive if I try to take the ball away. She gets them, pops a hole in them with a tooth, deflates them a bit, then carries them around till she finds a spot then chews pieces out of them. I really don't want her to be needing surgery for ingested plastic or rubber stuck in her gut, even though she finds these balls great fun, I have chosen to avoid them and the behaviors and dangers they present for her.

I know I have warned you about this once before, and I felt I should do it again, but add the info you may need to save Bdog's life. I won't post on the subject again, in this thread. No response is expected, I just felt you may be in need of more info on which to make a decision. Either way you decide is fine with me... just so you know.... and for others reading this thread...

[kjc]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

A week of no accidents is HUGE! That means she understands the concept. Thor had a few more slip ups after he went 3 days without an accident, but each time he went went longer, and when he went a month accident-free, I proclaimed him trained.

I'm a big fan of NILF.

I have not had to train a dog with a partner, so not much advice there. Well, some. Remember: nagging almost never works; you can't *make* someone else change; and both dogs and people respond better to positive reinforcement.

Congratulations on your recent successes. I'm sure there are more to come.

I do think a trainer is a great idea, and can help both of you. It's often easier to take advice from an objective expert than your SO.

- what she said!

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by kjc

If these are rawhide chews, I cannot stress enough how dangerous they are. In addition to being a choking hazzard, they can also get stuck anywhere along the alimentary tract and cause a blockage, which would most likely require surgery to correct. You're probably thinking,' Well, she's never had a problem with them yet', I would say she's been lucky up to this point. These things are a time bomb. One day it will happen.

If you all are going to continue with the rawhide, at least read these links:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-maneuver.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...uture-use.html

And be sure to keep the number and address of a 24 hour Emergency Vet Clinic handy for when you need it.


I can't let Tinkerbell have any large balls to play with. She gets too zoned in on them, and can turn aggressive if I try to take the ball away. She gets them, pops a hole in them with a tooth, deflates them a bit, then carries them around till she finds a spot then chews pieces out of them. I really don't want her to be needing surgery for ingested plastic or rubber stuck in her gut, even though she finds these balls great fun, I have chosen to avoid them and the behaviors and dangers they present for her.

I know I have warned you about this once before, and I felt I should do it again, but add the info you may need to save Bdog's life. I won't post on the subject again, in this thread. No response is expected, I just felt you may be in need of more info on which to make a decision. Either way you decide is fine with me... just so you know.... and for others reading this thread...

I know you warned me on them and I apologize for not responding properly when you did. I don't give them to Bdog...it's my fiance and I would take them away, but I don't want the pup thinking she is in trouble or causing static as the bad guy with her. She is known to chew them down to a dangerous size and if you don't get it away from her, she will try to swallow them whole. I know she's choked on them before and my fiance has had to loop her finger into her throat to get them out before.

I'm not telling you this to place my fiance in negative light here because she does watch her VERY closely to make sure she takes them away before they get whittled down to a dangerous size. What I find ironic is my fiance gives them to her to preoccupy her after they play (Bdog is the energizer bunny of fetch and flying through the air from the floor to the couch in a heated run). She gives them thinking she can do schoolwork or bake, but she spends more time watching her to make sure she doesn't get too far into the chewy than if she would go for a walk and just let her run around when she gets back inside.

Quicksilver,
I don't nag on her to follow the program...well, I try not to be a nagger but if we come to an agreement on a plan and she strays after I expressed the importance of each step (along with showing her documentation of such importance) and she strays, I will ask her why she didn't do whatever or why she did whatever. I don't present it negatively or rude...but she acts like I just called grandma dirty names.

All I want is to see her taking the steps we agreed on. I explained that this isn't a convenience factor and can't skip anything because we are late for school/work...etc. I know it won't hurt to make a slip here and there...but one slip into another and another CAN cause an issue.

We'll keep working on it. I'll keep you posted.

[QuickSilver]

Honestly, I am glad you're making progress with the dog... but when you are describing your fiancee, you sound like her mother. I doubt she wants to follow your orders about dog care. I'm sure she's not perfect, but you need to work as a team with the dog, not as boss/subordinate/dog.

[QuickSilver]

Let me say this another way: what you are describing with your fiancee is an extremely common dynamic between couples. The more you push, criticize, and cajole, the more she is going to passively resist. This probably drives you crazy, so you push harder, so she listens even less, etc.

This is an extremely difficult pattern to break out of. Here is what I suggest, though it is easier said than done: sit her down and say that you know she loves the dog and wants what's best for her. Acknowledge that this was her dog first, and she has a stronger bond than you do at the moment. Then ask her how you can work together to address training concerns. She may continue to drag her feet, but if you can consistently treat her as a partner in this situation, she will likely step up -- or acknowledge that you care about this more than she does, and let you take care of the training.

You guys may not agree on all the work necessary, but presumably you can both agree that it would be better to have the dog potty trained, and not choke on a treat.

For something like the rawhides, I would maybe stop by a pet store and get something else, like a bully stick, or a flossie. You can suggest this as a rawhide alternative. Again, if you present it as supportive and helpful, she will be more willing to listen.

Now, it sounds like your dog will probably guard these treats as well, so maybe they are not a good idea right now - but they present a much lower risk of choking.

[concretegurl]

Huh, glad to hear things are going better-are you doing the study break walks? Thought you had already scheduled a trainer coming in to the house...don't delay for later-often that equates to never...still waiting for the post on what happens with the trainer. Also did you two invest in a play pen instead of kenneling all the time? Check the kennel I have in my album if you can't see it here's a link for you-these are awesome! Get a water bottle to go with it, a blanket, toys (I posted pics of my fav in an album on my profile too) no food though don't set yourselves up for failure again and maybe some potty pads in a corner of it-i prefer the below kind but again even a baby gate system works great and you can often find them really cheap at big box retailers and even used on craigs lists as children grow people list them
Pet Dog Cat In/Outdoor Tent Soft Exercise Pen Play Yard - eBay (item 230554917672 end time Dec-24-10 19:50:00 PST)