Beyond CM TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM
 

This was passed onto me and I thought I would share.
I get repeatedly told I am the only one that thinks as I do.
Well it is looking more and more like I am not as I always know.
Those that defend him are less and less.

JL

BEYOND CESAR MILLAN - Home


TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM

Those who are defending Cesar are using the same tired and debunked arguments that have been thrown at critics for years.

1. “You’ve obviously never watched the show.” Many of the professionals who have spoken out against the methods on the show have watched and can site multiple episodes.

2. “You’re just jealous of his success.” If that were the case, wouldn’t we just call ourselves ‘dog whisperers’ like so many so-called trainers who are attempting to profit from the success of the show?

3. “You would just have those dogs rehomed or euthanized.” Considering the vast library of continuing education seminars, books and DVD’s by professional trainers outlining specific techniques to modify aggressive behavior without the use of pain, fear or force, this claim is also untrue.

4. “It worked great on my dog.” In research, this is called n=1, meaning the research is based on the reaction of one subject. If a medication didn’t cause a serious problem for 1/100 people, would you trust it?

5. “He works with dogs other trainers won’t/you don’t have experience working with ‘red zone’ dogs”. False and false. Aggression is not a mystery – because of the research done both in labs and in the field, we understand the most common causes of aggression. Aggressive behavior is normal, not ‘red zone’ and it is rarely the result of dominance (some old veterinary texts say otherwise, but those were published before the resarch of the last decade).

Yes, we watch the show. Yes, we work with serious aggression cases. No, we don’t immediately recommend euthanasia because a dog is aggressive. No, we’re not jealous or promoting our own agenda (also known as scientifically proven methods).

What many of the posters on this thread fail to realize is that the vast majority of trainers speaking out against Cesar’s methods have extensive experience using those methods 10, 20 or even 30 years ago and have seen first-hand the problems they can create.

There is a whole world of canine behavior available to those who want to learn more than the over-simplified explanations of dominance and submission. If you are willing to put aside your beliefs as I was 10 years ago and be open to learning more, think of the good you can do for your dog and others.

k9mythbuster
Veterinary Behaviorists Take a Stand Against Cesar Millan

I think all that is important is what works for one person might not work for another. I'm sure this thread will become quite heated and involved- but it doesn't need to be. Do what works for you and forget about what everyone else says.

Go back and read the whole thread really read it you are falling right into the trap eveyone else does.
It works for me. Ok you are a one off.

4. “It worked great on my dog.” In research, this is called n=1, meaning the research is based on the reaction of one subject. If a medication didn’t cause a serious problem for 1/100 people, would you trust it?
What the pros are seeing is that it does not work and it wreaks dogs and they see it watching the shows.

No need for this thread to get heated and if it does it will be on the side that continues in the face of facts research and people far more qualified getting upset as they do not have the facts nor the science to back them up.

JL

I can read- thanks. My dog is not a mess- just much better behaved. It is clear you don't like him or whatever- but I'll stick with what works for me- thanks.

Agreed - this goes for everything, dog or human related. What works for me might not work for you.

ok ease up.. first off it looks like the original poster just passed the info although they appear to agree with it.

I however agree with Marci.... what works for one might not work for the other. Wherein CM's approach and perceptions work great for some, others may not find it useful or agree with it. That's how it is with most things. We all have our own opinions on foods, trainings, etc.

When posting something controversial you have to know that and respect others opinions even if you don't agree with them yourselves. Don't jump on someone for voicing their opinion. If you can't be open then don't post.

No I like him as a human just fine but as a dog what ever he thinks he is, he is a major problem to those that actually do train and not force one to do as dictated.
Ok so it works now but when it stops working or you try it on your next dog and the wheels fall off then what? I rather have a dog do something for me cause he likes to then he must cause I say so or I will scold, poke,. roll, choke, zap, can shake, or what ever other negative interaction one can do to get your dog to do it or else. Dogs can say no and still not take over the world.

He is a one hit wonder- domination is just that. When many work from many different angles do get the job done, not one of those is domination.

JL

Well I have yet to scold, poke, roll, choke (Havent' read that in any of his books), zap (haven't read that in any books either) or can shake with Layla. She respects me and knows I am in charge- end of story. I dont' want to fight with you- i just dont' feel you are being accurate at all.

Ok... I just wanted to ask... does it really matter? Who cares whether his teachings work or not. If you don't like him, turn the channel, don't buy the book. If you like... vice versa.

To me its kind of the same as do you like your toilet paper under or over... I could care less personally. I do what works for me....under.

the horse is dead already stop beating it!

people who like CM will like him, and the people who don't will always find something wrong with him, I'm sure if i tried hard I could find something wrong with any dog trainer.

You want to know what works? take bits and pieces from different trainers and find what works for your dog. Owners should be more hands on about training their dogs then to hire someone for a quick fix anyways.

Unless an out break of dead dogs show up in the hands of CM then I don't think he is going any where.

:thumbup:

you hit the nail on the head.

this isn't the only post the OP has posted to stir up members about CM. and the OP knows how members will respond.

man i hate trolls. Thanks for the info- going to shut up now and stay away from all threads like this

Marcella, I agree with you 100%. Most of us are intelligent to determine a training method that will work for us individually.

Training is like kibble -- it is the responsibility of each and every dog owner to determine what is best for them. We all need to believe in ourselves and NOT rely on what others think of a particular trainer. Unfortunately we don't "know" the people posting the pros and cons of Cesar Milan, so it would be in our dog's best interest for each of us to personally seek out the trainer(s) to follow and methods to use.

Give it a rest and move on. We are all aware that you detest Cesar, for what ever reason.

If he were harming animals, the animal protective services would have him in jail.

Move your focus from Cesar bashing to becoming a better trainer yourself. If you do ad small fraction for dogs, of what Cesar has accomplished, you will have accomplished something. Don't try to make yourself look good by making someone else look bad.

You have a lot of anger inside of you, try praying for help on that issue.

Excuse me troll? Rather not called for and resorting to name calling cause one can not prove ones point with science proves my point. You have to be rude instead of using sciene blows it out of the water.

Been on this board a few years and also on it before when life was not so busy. I pop in when I can and as I can depending on my work load.
I post to training as that is what I know and have time in my life to respond to.

JL

Fine, then train your dog the way you see fit, and let Cesar do what he does.

My dogs work to please me, the poke is not to punish them, it is to let them know that they are not pleasing me.

The other day I clicked a link to a Humane Society in a thread you had posted in , I think it was a response from Ladymom for positive training. While there, I clicked on another link to a story about a dog rescued at the HS. The trainer was using Cesar's methods. I'm confused. If HS are against his methods, why leave a success story on their site?

:thumbup:

I'm not going to go through THIS argument again. It's just beating a dead horse.

Simply read this thread:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...t=cesar+millan

And I think we've established our point.

Give it up.

I don't think I've EVER seen a post of yours ANYwhere on this board that did not involve Cesar. Obviously you love him because you can never stop talking about him. You know - you speak of the ones you truly love. Just come out in the open, you really LOVE Cesar. :luvu:

I think envy is more like it.

Just to clear that up there is a difference with the HS and the AHA they are two different groups. HS has a wee credibility problem when they are hunting Puppy mills but let Petland that sells mill dogs sponsor events.

AHA is a the group that governs use of animals in movie and TV or a division of that group does. Ceser does not allow them to be on set and there for does not have their approval nor can he run no animals have been hurt in the making of this show.

JL

[QUOTE=erickajm;2797097]Ok... I just wanted to ask... does it really matter? Who cares whether his teachings work or not. .

QUOTE]

To answer this question yes it matter very much.

Does it matter where you buy your dog? why not a pet store or a byb?
Does it matter that dogs are getting hurt? Hay it just a guy doing buisness. selling a dog does it matter yes. So let them sell them and raise them any way they want.

Does it matter that people use his methods and end up in more trouble then when they started?
Quess to some it does not.
To many of us it matters a great deal.

JL

JennieK and Blister

Out of 304 threads I have posted to all are about ceser really???

When I was here before and had more time I chatted a lot more about me and the dogs in my life. As I now have the ripe number of 15 in my life a little to busy to chat other then to pop in and add to a thread on training. Now and again when I am even near a computer and have time to think.

As to the other part your refereed to see comment two. “You’re just jealous of his success.” If that were the case, would’t we just call ourselves ‘dog whisperers’ like so many so-called trainers who are attempting to profit from the success of the show?"

Thanks ladies you proved my point very nicely done. Click and treat.
Bring name calling to a chat cause you can not bring the science.


JL

Where did I call you a name?

I think we just need to stop joining in on her little game. She is enjoying this too much- let's just leave it.

:yeahthat:

Make no mistake there is no enjoyment in this at all.
If you think there is you have the wrong end of the stick.
Who could take any enjoyment out of knowing that there are trainers and owners out there with the wrong facts on dog training and dogs are getting hurt.
You think that beings joy to anyone other then dog fighting people to knowingly watch and allow dogs to get hurt and for others to watch every day and think it is ok.
This is not now nor has it ever nor will it ever be a game.

JL

Good post! Thats exactly what I do is take bits and pieces of different trainers. Im so sick to death of the cesar debating going on here all the time by one person