It is not a simple yes or no your are making out like he made something new and wondrous and grand and he inverted it. When it is old and tried and well used. He is not the inventor of a new method it been around for a long time.
Nor is Karen pryor the inventor of positive training, Skinner is it been around forever. He guys was not invented the wheel here he regurgitated crude that does not work.
While over simplification is key to his training it is not how dogs work.
Yes my dog is off the table she gets to live in peace. She got nothing to prove to anyone she alive and again hope a plane and come see.

JL

What breed is your dog? You are being so vague about her I am really beginning to wonder

No that was a back handed compliment actually.

JL

Ok then do you or did you have any experience using the "dominating" or "Alpha Roll" or what ever you want to call it, because CM didn't invent it, right? method???

The question WAS a simple yes or no question. I'll repeat --

Do you have any personal experience using Cesar Milan's methods?

If I told you the breed you would turn it against her like everything else.
She not getting pulled apart for your enjoyment she done her share of treaching.
Remeber I have 15 right now but I am talking mainly about one.

JL

No it is not. It is an over simplification of the issuse ment to stop something you are not willing to learn from. Just like he over simplifies his training.
He misses the bigger picture, as you are,

JL

Shes not on here nor will be its you and us and I really dont understand why you cant answer that simple question

Hang on slow down one of me two or three of you I having trouble making sure I get to all of you.

YES HE did not invent it and yes I have first hand understanding of it.

JL

Ok you lost me on this one?? try that again please.

JL

Ok, so you are afraid to tell us what breed this dog is that was damaged by Cesar. My gosh, how in the world could any one of us "damage" your dog -- you are in Canada, I am in Georgia, and I don't think your dog can read what we are typing.

Once again, you have avoided answering a very simple yes/no question.

Do you or do you not have personal experience using Cesar Milan's techniques or methods.
It isn't a complicated question. You represent yourself as being knowledgeable regarding his methods and techniques. So .... do you have any personal experience using them?

You keep at the question like I am not understanding it.
What you do not get is it not Cesers method at all. HE is doing nothing new!!!!

Try monks of skete the old stuff. Goodness even Barbra woodhouse.
He is not doing anything new!

No I do not think you will hurt my dog. What I am saying is that you would not let anyone personally attack your child on line well nor will I let you do it to mine even if she is a dog. She my kid.
I am trying to spell check as I go so be slower so I can keep up it takes a long time for me to re read.
JL

What I was trying to say is that if you do not believe me I be more then willing to pick you up at the airport and take you to meet her and our behaviour person and then you can see her first hand. I was not suggesting that you would hurt her... yeah that not happen and I know that.
It is late and while I can continue I have been asked by my girl to plaes come to bed and as we have already changed our routine by staying on this long and upset the routine and for a mentally chanllange wee one it tough enough so we will need to stop here for now. Or at least I do. I am sure you all can continue.

JL

Then let me rephrase the question.

This method that Cesar uses, but did not invent.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do you have personal experience using it?


So, because this dog is your child you will not tell us what breed she is because we might think badly of her and it will lower her self esteem?

How do you know we would attack her. Remeber you brought her up.You use her as an example and then we cant even ask what breed she is which is relevant

You have stated on more than one occasion that you are a trainer. Why would you need a "behavior person"?


Why in the world would I want to fly to Canada to meet some stranger that cannot and/or will not answer simple questions. Or even reveal the breed of dog that has such emotional problems from Cesar Milan? Please stay on topic -- we can't get anywhere when you keep changing the subject.

Tell you what, it sounds like your stressed out dog needs a break. Why don't you send her to Georgia and let her have a farm vacation. She can learn to be a dog -- run and play, chase the horses and roll in and eat horse poop.

Dogs are a mirror to their owners. If a dog is whacked all too often it is because the owner is out of sorts.

Well cause like all good trainers we are smart enough not to treat our own kids. You know the saying Physicain heal they self. Who siad that she is not the reason I became one. Or why I changed my methods or that I have not worked a long time in one area of training and crossed over to a differnt animal and a differnt way of doing things.

I am not changing the suject I stick to it well accept I need bed or she does.
I just offered to personally show you. Cause you are not getting it in words I was offering up a visual aid.

JL

ok...all else a side, Joy, what do you do as a method of correcting behavior, you must have one, because we can let our furbabies run crazy and at some point they do things they shouldn't and need some correction. How do you go about it?

So.... the $1,000,000 question. Are you responsible for your dog being damaged? If the answer to this question is YES then I can certainly understand why you would need outside help. If you are dealing with a routine training problem, then you should be able to handle it.

I understand exactly. You are an expert at avoiding answering direct questions. You have YET to answer the question about Cesar. You refuse to answer what breed of dog you own that is so damaged by Cesar.

BTW.... if I come to Canada, then I will find out what breed she is and can share that information :D

Really you offering can you come get her...,, she can not fly alone.
She not be ok with anyone that smokes. drinks or other dogs. Can not manage things that move fast, will need her meds three times a day. Men are evil no I am not saying that, she does and kids need to be around. White dogs cause panic attacks. So do loud voices and metal sound but thunderstroms are great. But not so much firecrackers...yeah I do not know why one not hte other. Desial trucks are bad so are.....No she was soicalized...Wiring.....

And while that is a very over simplification yet again and I sure ceser said it it is not true.
Pat miller owns one very similar to my dog and is a sweet calm kind lady.
Emma Parson had ben..
Pam Dennsion too.
PAt McConnell owns one too.
Many of us take on the bad apples as we can manage then as we are not the mirror we are in the calm able to pull them out of hypre.

May want to read bringing light to shadow.....

JL

are you going to answer my question?

No I did not cause her problems.
I have a note that hangs on my wall. From my behaviour helper that say you did not cause this it is not your fault. she was made this way give your self a break. Take time to yourself and get baby sitters for her. Get some good chocalate. What I failed at was I missed it, I was to close to see that which I love not coping but I know We had something out and I could not get it and I went for help. Same thing I do here I see or I feel something not running as it should.. You know thr car makes that funny sound you know something off but what. I saw and i thought had it but I did not so we went for eyes on. Tow pairs of eyes are better then one.

My girl is very well trained to a normal set of eyes she ok she comes like a shot, she sits, she heels, she stay.. ok sort of...everything a good dog should but that wiring coughs and just like my words get messed up out my fingers her brain spits something wrong and hold on.

Sure cause by then you will understand as you will see. You can not really know until you see and live it. My sister bless her thought I was over careful and so was a freind of mine. Both inside a week of watching this girl got it and are far more portective of her then me. They thought I was wrong and they know me. Sis saw her just about crash she caught the early stage shake..that was enough to scare her from ever scolding her again.
Yelling at anyone in the house stopped that day done. I was just visiting.
Instant crash say knock it off anywhere near my girl... Why???

JL

Humm what?? I was working through someone elses post. Remeber three to one and I have to spell check.... Help lost... redue??? Ok I hit quote and I got really lost. Wait maybe copy paste.

JL

well go back and read my post over...Im very interested in how you do your training methods.

But I'm about to fall asleep on my keyboard so Ill read it tomorrow.

Good night

I don't have to do that, because I have already saw the signs you are
referring to. I to have seen him get on top of a dog and hold them down
to show he is in control, I just wonder what he will do when his shock
collars fell and the dog is aggressive enough that it gets a hold of him
good. I use the reward method with Chance, I get her used to doing
what I expect of her with treats and love then I taper off the treats
and just use praise and love as a reward. That works well for us. I
was Animal Planet with Victoria Stilwell. She and I like the praise and
love and treat method over physical control. I would rather Chance to
want to do tricks and obedience because she respects me and wants
to please me than because she is afraid not to, because of what
punishment she may get. But everyone is different, I believe all dogs
want to please there owners so treats and praise will work for all dogs,
the people just need to have more patience and understanding for the
dog. Remember you never know what has went on in that dogs life
before it was yours. I feel, and it is just my thought, that there is know
bad dog, just bad owners, and that goes for Pitbulls also.
There is really no need for everyone to get so upset over this thread,
it is your dogs, and you get to train them however you want. That is
what is so great about AMERICA, we are FREE, to do what we choose
to do.. There are far worse things going on in the world now to worry
about than C.M.

I have come to the conclusion that you will not answer any question with a simple yes or no answer and then qualify that answer with an explaination. It is very difficult to understand your responses because you don't stay on topic. You were the one who started the thread and you were the one who indicated that Cesar somehow damaged your dog. It is reasonable that we would want to know the breed of dog we are talking about.

It is unfair to Cesar Milan, who is not here to defend himself, and it is very unfair to the entire YT membership.


Am I to assume that this is the only dog that you own and it's a Yorkie (i.e. your user ID YorkieMother). What is the problem with smoking or drinking? That doesn't make much sense. I understand that secondhand smoke is unhealthy, but dogs don't -- does she have a breathing problem? And why would this dog give a flying flip if someone had a beer?

I found it

"Originally Posted by Akbritt
ok...all else a side, JL, what do you do as a method of correcting behavior, you must have one, because we can let our furbabies run crazy and at some point they do things they shouldn't and need some correction. How do you go about it?"

I do not corrrect at all. I ignore bad behaviour as any notice of it even negative will reinforce it.
That which you feed with any action will repeat.
Now that said I will step in and redircet a problem.
As in if my dog goes after one of the others I will step in between using good dog speack and slipt them up.

If my dog goes to snag something she should not have I call her name and redirect her to what I want whic his feet on the ground or leave it and I reward the right action.

If she takes off which is rare as hens teeth I go the other way and make like a party. she comes nad I reward that come not htetaking off.

I catch them doing and being good and I do not set them up to fail.

JL

Thanks I glad that I am not the only one that sees what is really there.
JL

First of all, I respect your right to your views. and you are right about the freedoms we enjoy as Americans.

Unfortunately the television shows are not the sum total of what Cesar Milan does. Way too many people only see a small piece of the puzzle and make a judgement. Putting things into perspective, Cesar Milan deals with problem dogs. Most of our Yorkies have problems but aren't problem dogs. I agree 100% with using positive training methods, treats, bribery. :D Works with human kids as well.

If we keep an open mind we can learn from Cesar, Pat, Victoria, Karen, and each other. We all have invaluable knowledge -- what works for me may or may not work for you. My foremost training rules I learned from a horse trainer:

1) I cannot get hurt
2) My horse/dog/whatever cannot get hurt
3) My horse/dog/whatever must be more relaxed at the end of the training session than before we started
4) Pain is a deterrent to learning