I have a seven year old dog that in anyone elses hands be dead.
I am not the one saying that there are any number of slack jawed Vets, Behaviourists, Trainers, and lay people that can not believe she is still alive and doing well enough to be comfortable.
They or most have of them have seen us from Heck and back on more then one occassion.
She should be dead and the only reason She is not is I got over my need to Ceser Millan her and got with her program.
I KNOW I LIVE IT
JL

I use the reseach cause the fact I have a dog that is every day fighting to live is non of your business.
Science should do the job if one has an open mind and actually reads it.

JL

Animals (human and otherwise) also need to understand authority -- and that ugly word -- submission. Submission does not mean going belly up -- to submit means to yield to the authority of another.

And???

This applys How???
Go read on sudmisson it is actually the leader that gives in many cases.

JL

I am very sorry that your dog was injured. It is heartbreaking to have one of our canine friends hurt. However, unless Cesar Milan personally trained your dog, then there is absolutely NO WAY that he could have caused any harm. It sounds like some inexperienced and/or ignorant trainer abused Cesar's methods and caused harm to your dog.

If you would read the definition of the word submission, you would have your answer. I supplied a true definition of the word submission -- it means to yield to the authority of another.

That is the old definition and it does not apply to dogs.
That is why I post the science so you can see the changes and you do not read it as you think you know.
It has changed.

JL

As for the Bold in red comment you are so far out of line it is not funny. Any time you wish to take a plane ride on up here to meet the person that said that I be more then willing to pick you up and take you to meet with them. I will even let you have a run at my girl and see if you can make her work for you.
And that is why what I have been through is non of your business she is not now nor ever anything to be poked at ridiculde or put down.
This kids been places you will never seen and non had to do with me.
Staffy terriers and drunks and many thing got her long before me.
I just laid down the need to rule the with you must obey or else.
Well or elses shut down and will you say it someones fault vets say it is genetics.
Gene pool nailed her and hard.
See gene pool can get many dogs many many. Seen it now in three one landed in a home he was been lucky his owners never set him up to fail.
One Man on man he is a hand full but I will get him sorted out.
One my girl she well landed at me second. Rolled, scolded for puppy nipping.
Crawled under a chair and shook anbd shook cause she peeed in her noe whome then throw up and then pooped. Painc attack at all of 9 months old.
GENETICs.
I spent the better part of 6 years covering more ground on behaviour to find on thing to turn this around. If it is out there I have looked at it.
Why cause my child was four feet and hair and is in pain and any good mom fights for her childern.
As for Ceser nothing he does is new or wonderous its old and it is well used and while you can saint him; any part of what he does has been done by many many many many others repeatly for years and years and years he just got himslef and slick package and you are buying it.

JL

The word submission means to yeild to the authority of another. Period. Go look it up. I did :D There isn't a new definition of the word.

And it DOES apply to dogs in that fashion. Please tell me how you came up with the silly statement that yielding to authority does not apply to dogs?

Are you willing to listen to the science or not?
Cause we have been round this block before and while I happy to go again if you are not willing to go along an learn you would be wasting your time.

Me I like talking behaviour.
You not so much.

JL

I saw you edited your post: which is good...because in that comment from chattiesmom, there was NO WHERE in her last post where she was "out of line" You are so easily to take offense to anything that is said to you, you disagree with.

She only posted that she was sorry to hear that any of your babies was treated that way from a trainer or person whatever, who abused those methods. IN NO WAY was she being out of line. You may want to make sure you read the post correctly before accusing people or things you misunderstood.

Bottom line, unless Cesar Milan personally trained your dog and caused the problem then Cesar is NOT responsible. If YOU took his methods to an extreme, or allowed someone else to, then you need to stop blaming Cesar Milan and take the responsibility of harming her. YOU are responsible for YOUR dog and what happens to her.

And I need to use the links and others notes cause, you know spelling it tough for me so it is easier on you to understand if I link and post.
Or if you want to hear my words you can call me cause I can speak it easier then I can type it.

I am also getting very tired so the spelling is getting worse.

JL

No it is not the bottom line I am not blaming ceser for what is up with my girl I am saying what he does on a girl like mine kill her.
When you suggest using his stuff you put dogs at risk if you do not know they are wired like mine.
No the breeder that put the male and female together and bred a badly wired dog is at fault. I just get to do clean up.
Again you are not getting the science. GENETICS made her.

JL

You are not making much sense. :rolleyes:

I am not interested in pages of quotes trying to justify why you don't like Cesar Milan. You have yet to give PERSONAL first hand experience of why you don't like his methods or what happened to your dog.

Talk behavior, and I'll read, but I am not interested in you copying and pasting a plethora of quotes. Let us hear about your personal experience with his methods. Leave everyone else out of it -- let's hear from you.

Then, DON'T use Cesar's methods on this particular dog. That's not science, that's common sense. BUT don't blame Cesar. You are responsible for your dogs and for the dogs you choose to own.

Look watch his show

I have said that
look at the body language not the way he says it is but as those that study it say it is.
I have posted links to body language as it really is not as he crude I can not spell the word I need hang one Fabricates it to be. I get that??
See the lip lick
see the yawns.
see the eye blinks
Do you know what the means?
We will take this one step at a time.


Joy

I have one of his shows. I don't watch it, because I feel he miss treats the dog.
I am glad there are others who think the same thing.

Do you think so really???? So then who do you know over the internet which dog you coach is like mine???
You do not???
So why not go slow take it easy not start with ok lets be the boss. Figure out the wiring of the dog by going slow and by the time you know you pretty much got a fixed dog if it is fixable.

My girl not so much but you can slap patches on things.

JL

well he saids its because they are stressed....and don't like to be corrected.

Which if someone told me what to do i wouldnt like it either...its kind of a nature response

Joy -

You have conveniently ignored the questions about your dog. I would be very curious to know what breed of dog she is and who trained her. It seems that you have this idea that Cesar harmed your dog -- let's stay on topic and help us understand.

You want to talk behavior and have indicated that Cesar's methods did emotional/mental harm to your dog. I am genuinely interested in knowing how that happened.

So you dont have any personal first hand experience using his methods?

I am going to make a wild suggestion... if you can turn and trust me it can be tough to do to wtch with the volume down cause you see things you miss with his voice in your ears. Turn the volume down. Watch just the dog. See what you see for yawns lip licks, eye blicks, head turns, shake offs, These are all dog speack for I to stressed please stop. No good learning will happen in that state of stress. Sometimes you can see the light is gone out of the dogs eyes he is not there any more he has learned what is call learned helplessness.

Why I suggest watching it is that it is the fastest way to learn body language I know of and it comes in handy if you are out for a walk and apporocahed by a dog you are going to know if you need to book it out of there or if you are ok.

JL

So you are not willing to learn are you??

JL

Ok, then tell us about your girl -- what makes her so different from all other dogs? What breed is she? If you are a trainer, then why do you need a coach?

You still haven't explained how Cesar caused harm to her.

Chachi asked you a simple YES or NO question and you avoided answering it. Will you please answer that question.

Do you or do you not have any personal experience using Cesar Milan's methods?

Wow you are good almost as good as Socal from years ago expect she never ever tried to mess with my girl she know not to cross that line.
She was also willing to learn and you my dear are not.

JL

Do you or do you not have any experience using Cesar Milan's methods?

We are here to learn so why dont you answer the questions

What does this have to do with the current discussion. I am not so easily distracted nor will I argue. I just want to understand why you think that Cesar Milan damaged your dog?