Next best thing to Cesar Milan in Phoenix!!!

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Lcarp

I have studied dogs for years as well and all of my scientific resources and experience continue to support our psychhological training as a wonderful tool to help dog owners. We have worked with pit bulls,pugs,yorkies,a Canary Island fighting dog, pomeranians, chows, wiemeraners, German shepards, labradoodles, just to name a few, and all have been successfully trained and balanced using our methods.

As evidenced by April's blog and Tucker's improvements, it does works very well with Yorkies. I would hate for your opinion to discourage people from finding help from B&L Dog Training.
We can just agree to disagree.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to come on YT and give us some wonderful advise. I wish I lived near you. Ever since I was little I have always had a connection with animals. Right now, I have 4 Yorkies a Scottie and a Westie and they are my pac. I treat them like a wolf pac and I am there leader. The bow down to me but yet they love me. I have never hit or yelled at them. I do growl when one is acting unbalanced and he or she will fall on their back and wag their tail at me. When I see calm submissive behavior I will touch the side of the face and I have a balanced dog again. My Pac also sleeps with me. We are a balanced team. Thanks again for coming on this site.

[Nancy1999]

I like Cesar's techniques because he addresses the human, not the dog. It's important to act in a calm, neither aggressive nor passive, but an assertive manner. He teaches about posture, and movement, and how they affect the dog. He also helps us learn about our dogs posture and movement, and what they mean. I really believe he understands the psyche of a dog.

I do know that Joey had a problem when my sons' dogs visited, at mealtime. He was suddenly a little maniac. One tip from Cesar changed all this, he said that the dog should sit before you place the food down, and stay there until the release command is given. This one little thing made all the difference in the world. It was like magic, and the food aggression problem was solved. Before that it was so bad, I had to feed them in separate rooms. I don't think there are any "experts" who are right about everything, and I also don't think there is any field, in which, all the experts agree on everything. I love hearing from people who have had success with a method they used, and I'm especially saddened that a new member was shot down, and may not want to post here again because some people make you defend every word.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I like Cesar's techniques because he addresses the human, not the dog. It's important to act in a calm, neither aggressive nor passive, but an assertive manner. He teaches about posture, and movement, and how they affect the dog. He also helps us learn about our dogs posture and movement, and what they mean. I really believe he understands the psyche of a dog.

I do know that Joey had a problem when my sons' dogs visited, at mealtime. He was suddenly a little maniac. One tip from Cesar changed all this, he said that the dog should sit before you place the food down, and stay there until the release command is given. This one little thing made all the difference in the world. It was like magic, and the food aggression problem was solved. Before that it was so bad, I had to feed them in separate rooms. I don't think there are any "experts" who are right about everything, and I also don't think there is any field, in which, all the experts agree on everything. I love hearing from people who have had success with a method they used, and I'm especially saddened that a new member was shot down, and may not want to post here again because some people make you defend every word.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd say 99.5% of trainers tell you it's about training the human to work with the dog properly. A common mantra is "it's never the animal's fault." The food technique is also very common.

I do agree that training should be like a buffet - take what works for you and leave the rest. Don't trust someone who says it MUST be done a certain way (and I have seen people say things like "If you do not accept pack leader theory, your dog will never obey", so it goes both ways).

As I said, I would like to see more training traffic, but at the same time, I see why people get passionate and argumentative. So, like, yeah.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd say 99.5% of trainers tell you it's about training the human to work with the dog properly. A common mantra is "it's never the animal's fault." The food technique is also very common.

I do agree that training should be like a buffet - take what works for you and leave the rest. Don't trust someone who says it MUST be done a certain way (and I have seen people say things like "If you do not accept pack leader theory, your dog will never obey", so it goes both ways).

As I said, I would like to see more training traffic, but at the same time, I see why people get passionate and argumentative. So, like, yeah.

I'm not saying that most trainers aren't training the humans, I'm saying that Cesar looks at the "energy" the human is putting off, and he demonstrates how a different energy, can change the way an animal behaves. One you really understand it, you don't need a list of rules on how to handle separate problems. I don't mind a debate about a certain technique that is recommended by some trainer, and someone believes it abusive, I like to hear why people may or may not believe that that particular thing is abusive. There are certain situations, when positive reinforcement doesn't work, particularly those involved with wanting an animal to stop a certain behavior. I'm really against abuse of animals in any form. I am drawn to the pack leader theory because I believe an animal will actually be more contented and well adjusted if they know who's in charge. Studies have shown that children are better adjusted, and happier, when they believe that their parents are in charge, and in my opinion the same thing is true with dogs.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm not saying that most trainers aren't training the humans, I'm saying that Cesar looks at the "energy" the human is putting off, and he demonstrates how a different energy, can change the way an animal behaves. One you really understand it, you don't need a list of rules on how to handle separate problems. I don't mind a debate about a certain technique that is recommended by some trainer, and someone believes it abusive, I like to hear why people may or may not believe that that particular thing is abusive. There are certain situations, when positive reinforcement doesn't work, particularly those involved with wanting an animal to stop a certain behavior. I'm really against abuse of animals in any form. I am drawn to the pack leader theory because I believe an animal will actually be more contented and well adjusted if they know who's in charge. Studies have shown that children are better adjusted, and happier, when they believe that their parents are in charge, and in my opinion the same thing is true with dogs.

You nailed it... This statement is what you need to train your dog. How is your posture, are you a confident person? Its all about energy.

[QuickSilver]

Yeah, that's where opinions come in. I do not connect with Cesar's "energy" thing at all. But that's just my personality, if it works for other people, great.

I agree with you that positive reinforcement doesn't always work, or requires an expert to make it work, which I am not. Have you read "Don't Shoot The Dog"? That is a great, short book about how to use positive reinforcement to stop problem behaviors.

Anyway, I could write way more than I have written here about my feelings on Cesar Milan, because there are many things about him I like, and many things I don't. Thor came to me with a lot of behavioral problems, and it's very interesting for me to see what works and what doesn't. I'm really excited to see if I'll be able to train him out of his skateboard mania, as it is so intense, and I expect it to take several more months to get him calm. If I can get him to mind me around a skateboard, I'll know I can get him to do anything.

[manolos mom]

You need to get on your skateboard and walk him at the same time. I rollerblade with mine..

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Yeah, that's where opinions come in. I do not connect with Cesar's "energy" thing at all. But that's just my personality, if it works for other people, great.

I agree with you that positive reinforcement doesn't always work, or requires an expert to make it work, which I am not. Have you read "Don't Shoot The Dog"? That is a great, short book about how to use positive reinforcement to stop problem behaviors.

Anyway, I could write way more than I have written here about my feelings on Cesar Milan, because there are many things about him I like, and many things I don't. Thor came to me with a lot of behavioral problems, and it's very interesting for me to see what works and what doesn't. I'm really excited to see if I'll be able to train him out of his skateboard mania, as it is so intense, and I expect it to take several more months to get him calm. If I can get him to mind me around a skateboard, I'll know I can get him to do anything.

There are some people who are just naturally assertive; they have a certain confidence about them, and they don't need any specialize training to work with dogs. Where I got in a problem with Joey was my tendency to baby him, I felt really protective of him since he was so small, I guess. Cesar explained that this doesn't do your dogs any favors, and he showed adult small dogs that had been babied by their owners, and I was determined to not let them happen to Joey. Yorkies are a high-energy dog, and if you have a nervous energy or baby them too much, you can produce a really neurotic adult dog. I guess seeing how owners would change just a few things in their body language, without really changing their words, but more how they spoke the words, and you could see how the dog reacted differently. It's one thing to read it in a book, but his program can really show you what's happening, if you're observant. I had never heard of Cesar before Yorkietalk, and my education is in behavioral theory, but after watching his program, I was amazed. By the way, Cesar did do a program with the skateboard mania. He had his son ride a skate board by this really big aggressive dog, I don't think I would have let my son do that. I can't remember all the tips and techniques he used, but he was evenually able to get the dog to walk with him while he used the skate board.

[QuickSilver]

Yeah, I can't skateboard. What I'm doing now is taking him by a skate park 1x / week and feeding him treats while they go by. It has made a difference, but we have a ways to go.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

There are some people who are just naturally assertive; they have a certain confidence about them, and they don't need any specialize training to work with dogs. Where I got in a problem with Joey was my tendency to baby him, I felt really protective of him since he was so small, I guess. Cesar explained that this doesn't do your dogs any favors, and he showed adult small dogs that had been babied by their owners, and I was determined to not let them happen to Joey. Yorkies are a high-energy dog, and if you have a nervous energy or baby them too much, you can produce a really neurotic adult dog. I guess seeing how owners would change just a few things in their body language, without really changing their words, but more how they spoke the words, and you could see how the dog reacted differently. It's one thing to read it in a book, but his program can really show you what's happening, if you're observant. I had never heard of Cesar before Yorkietalk, and my education is in behavioral theory, but after watching his program, I was amazed. By the way, Cesar did do a program with the skateboard mania. He had his son ride a skate board by this really big aggressive dog, I don't think I would have let my son do that. I can't remember all the tips and techniques he used, but he was evenually able to get the dog to walk with him while he used the skate board.

I have watched several seasons of Cesar's show, and I have seen the skateboard eppy. He used desensitization, plain and simple. He just did it in one marathon session, while I am doing it in ten minute intervals. I believe that I am assertive and calm around Thor, and that's certainly better than being reactive or coddling, but I also believe that's insufficient for guiding his behavior. Again, my opinion.

Right now I am into Brenda Aloff, and I find her paradigm, forebrain versus hindbrain, much more effective for Thor. She has several videos also.

[manolos mom]

You need to buy a cheap skateboard and work with him one on one. Make him sit and role it in front of him. You will need to repeat and repeat this procedure. Praise him when he is calm. You also need to put him on his back and keep him there until he is calm. Repeat this daily and he will learn to be submissive when asked. Its a natural because when they are babies this is what their mommas do. My Lolo had her pups on their backs all the time until they became calm. I wish everyone had the opportunity to see a mother Yorkie teaching her pups from 8 months-12 months. Its amazing. Does anyone have a video of this? I guess thats why I get so upset when people take pups away from their moms at 6 weeks...Good Luck and let us know how Thor is doing..

[ChantalB]

IMO

There isn't any good or bad way of training as every dog is different.

The breed, the personality and the pass life experience of the dog are all to be take in consideration when deciding which training method is appropriate.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm not saying that most trainers aren't training the humans, I'm saying that Cesar looks at the "energy" the human is putting off, and he demonstrates how a different energy, can change the way an animal behaves. One you really understand it, you don't need a list of rules on how to handle separate problems. I don't mind a debate about a certain technique that is recommended by some trainer, and someone believes it abusive, I like to hear why people may or may not believe that that particular thing is abusive. There are certain situations, when positive reinforcement doesn't work, particularly those involved with wanting an animal to stop a certain behavior. I'm really against abuse of animals in any form. I am drawn to the pack leader theory because I believe an animal will actually be more contented and well adjusted if they know who's in charge. Studies have shown that children are better adjusted, and happier, when they believe that their parents are in charge, and in my opinion the same thing is true with dogs.

Totally agree with you but we've talked about this before!

Quicksilver, I definitely can agree on some of your points too and I like having "debates" with people like you, lol. You know what you're talking about, you demonstrate your points in a great manner, but you still can see the other side of the debate. Plus, I'm very interested in dog training, psychology and body language so I love learning new things and you're posts always interest me.

I think people see Cesar as this guy who is not willing to change and stuck in "old ways" but if you have actually watched most of the seasons, as I and many people have... you would learn that he is actually very open to others ideas and a few times has brought a dog to other trainer friends of his for other opinions, etc. He's also in more recent seasons begun using treats to lure a dog in, such as the "dog eating poop" episode, and this little Chihuahua mix who hated to be groomed, he placed a treat on top of the scissors to make use of the dog's smell. More 'positive training' methods, if you will. Also, if you want to get really deep, children were MUCH more well behaved and respectful when parents used "old ways" to disipline and parent. Just sayin'.

I've never seen him advocate choke collars, shock collars, or anything of the sort, so I don't know how that came into play. I saw one episode where he used an electronic collar on a dog who chased cars and I believe he even used the collar on himself to show it doesn't hurt, it just gives a shock, and it was a larger dog who could have gotten himself killed (had already been injured many times) by biting the tires of the tractors, cars, etc.

Also, when you have a 100lb aggressive Rottweiler, I feel like HOW can you use 100% positive training? That's just crazy. So, I'm gonna allow him to bite me and attack me and possibly kill me because I will NOT use "negative training" by placing him on his back in a surrender mode? I don't know. I just don't see anything wrong with pinning (NOT hurting) a dog down when he's in THAT state of aggression, big or small dog. Anddd... I've seen with my own eyes when dogs surrender and roll on their back. My dad's dog gave a nasty look and a growl to Jackson and he immediately surrended and layed on his back, as if he was surrending.

I have raised Jackson on certain Cesar Millan techniques and he's really a fantastic dog (99% of the time! ) I try my best to use my energy and when I'm high-strung, he's high-strung... when I'm calm, he's calm. He definitely feeds off of energy. When he's over at my dad's house around his veryy high energy Jack Russell, he's a wild man. But he absolutely loves all other dogs, he's a pretty good listener, mostly when I call his name, he comes right back to me, he walks right beside me on a leash, he hardly ever will walk out of a door without me going first, he sits before he gets his food bowl. But anyways, I'm just sayin' Jackson's a pretty good dog and I get lots of compliments about him and I give a lot of thanks to Cesar for that.

I know this is long but one more point... Cesar's dogs do NOT look abused, hurt, tortured or anything. They live like DOGS. How they're supposed to live. You can tell they're happy and loving life. They give kisses to Cesar, etc.

BUT, I respect every single persons opinion in here and am always open to hear new ideas. Different things work for different dogs.

[QuickSilver]

Britster, I feel the same way about you. I know we differ somewhat on our favorite trainers (*cough* Victoria *cough*), but it's great to talk to people who are into training.

I think I watched the first... three? seasons of the Dog Whisperer, so if Cesar is incorporating new methods, that's great. It's important for ALL trainers, no matter what school of thought they subscribe to, to stay open to new ideas. I have a lot of respect for all the rescue work he has done, and he loves dogs, so the man can't be all bad.

WRT choke collars. I do want to bring this up, because I'm pretty sure Cesar regularly used them in the seasons I've watched. Also, I've quoted a trainer who posted in the thread earlier below, because I believe this is directly from Cesar's recommended methods. Again, aquinn said that they worked with her and Tucker in a harness, which I am happy to hear, but I do not think these collars are a good idea for any dog, particularly not yorkies.

Originally Posted by Lcarp

From B&L Dog training
One of the first tips and direction that we give to dog owners is to make sure they are walking their dog correctly A dog should be right by your side- not dragging you . To make corrections if your dog is not just by your side "in the zone" so to speak, we ask people to place a choker or even just a regular leash wrapped through itself around the dog's neck, very high up by its ears. As the dog walks and begins to pull you or bark at things, use your arm to pull up on the leash, quickly , then releasing it, until the dog is walking at your pace by your side....

Then again, Thor's behavior today was utterly mortifying, so what do I know!

manolo's mom, I actually did get a skateboard a while ago and tried rolling it around Thor. He eats off of it now. For him, it's one thing if the board is sitting there quietly, and another if it is whizzing by him. If it weren't so dangerous, it would be funny. He will run after a boarder barking his little head off, and the second they stop, he's like, hey, where did the scary noise monster go? I do think he is getting desensitized though - I'm blogging our progress.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

You need to buy a cheap skateboard and work with him one on one. Make him sit and role it in front of him. You will need to repeat and repeat this procedure. Praise him when he is calm. You also need to put him on his back and keep him there until he is calm. Repeat this daily and he will learn to be submissive when asked. Its a natural because when they are babies this is what their mommas do. My Lolo had her pups on their backs all the time until they became calm. I wish everyone had the opportunity to see a mother Yorkie teaching her pups from 8 months-12 months. Its amazing. Does anyone have a video of this? I guess thats why I get so upset when people take pups away from their moms at 6 weeks...Good Luck and let us know how Thor is doing..

Sorry, I meant from 8-12weeks....