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Old 08-20-2007, 04:07 PM   #1
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Cry My friend lost ALL 4 pups in a c-sec.

A friend of mine called today and said that her dog was having some green discharge and today was day 64 from 1st breeding , day 59 from last breeding. she could feel the pups moving and mom never had any contractions. I told her green is not good and to go in to the vet. She went in and they gave her 3 shots of oxi and no contractions. She said she wanted to have her spayed after this litter as this was litter 3 for her and she was done. I told her that I had a spay done during a c-sec and to ask about having it done during her c-sec. She left at 2:30 and they told her to pick up Mia at 6pm. ( that she should be ready) I always stay and help but I guess they were VERY busy and didn't give her that option. She called 2 hrs later and said she hadn't heard anything, so I said, give them a call. She called me back and said all 4 of the pups were dead. What in the world happened? I found the things her vet said to her very odd.

1. He couldn't spay her because her milk wouldn't come in. ( not correct)

2. All pups look fine and normal, 1 was big and coming out cross ways so he couldn't be born. 1 he said had a long neck.. ( what ?, a long neck, very strange comment to me....)

3. He saw a spot on moms uterus, so he took it out.

All I can think of is to much or the wrong IV drugs. or didn't get them out fast enough. I have had about 4 c-sec in 4 yrs and thank GOD never lost a pup. They are a bit slower sometimes to get going.

Anyway, has anyone ever lost their whole litter during a c-sec ? She could feel them moving as she went in to the vet and they were not premature . Mia the mom will be ok ,but they are keeping her overnight. This is just so sad and I don't understand the whole litter not making it.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:07 PM   #2
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Tell your friend I"m so sorry for her loss. The whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me, I'd ask some more questions. It's just hard to believe that all the pups were lost during the C-section. I hope the mom will be alright.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:37 PM   #3
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I am so sorry to hear that!
I too am confused though. When My lab wasn't able to have her pups, we called the vet and on a saturday morning he came in and did an emergency c section, she had two pups stuck in the cannal, two that were twins and they were stuck up close to her back and causing an infection, and then we (the dr, me, my sis-in-law and his assistant) delivered the rest (11) al together, he spayed her right then and there, and she came home that evening and nursed the babies. (I would not have had her stay there but the dr stayed with her and because of the infection wanted to make sure he got her to eat and go to the bathroom)

It sounds to me (and this is just my opinion) that she was given the 'tocin and put away just to not deal with her until it was too late, or that he gave her too much 'tocin and her uterus ended up contracteing down on the pups. The "long-neck" sounds like that pup was pulled out of her (maybe she tried to deliver them and it got stuck and they pulled it out before they did the c-section?

I don't know.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:40 PM   #4
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Had a friend that lost 7 to a c-sec once...grant it, they were also premature.

It is possible that with the green discharge, there was infection. It is also possible that the infection got into the pup's blood stream and that could have been what killed the pups. Unless your friend takes the dead pups and has another vet do an autopsy, there's no way to really tell. JMO
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:55 PM   #5
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Tell your friend I"m so sorry for her loss. The whole thing sounds a bit fishy to me, I'd ask some more questions. It's just hard to believe that all the pups were lost during the C-section. I hope the mom will be alright.

I agree...more questions! If they were all moving at the time the Mom was left then..what happened...?? A green discharge of course most always means a uterine infection which can cause the demise of the pups,but if they were moving, the infection would have likely caused problems for them after the del. not likely during or immediately after???I hope she does question this more to help her to be able to finalize this tragedy a little more...either it was ??/Vet error or Mother nature...I'm sorry for her and you also...
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:18 PM   #6
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Thanks guys, I thought it was fishy too. I had green one time and my female was in labor (3 am of course )but nothing was happening so called my vet #1 and waiting for a call back. I called vet #2 just in case of no return call and he said green is ok. I said not according to my vet book, what would cause green discharge that would be ok? Vet #1 clicked in so I said goodbye and never did get a answer to why green is ok. Talking to vet #1 I see a head coming. Hang up and it's a big boy, he was hard to get out and born dead. He had separated from the placenta and got stuck to long. ( thats what the green was from) I did do a c-sec but the other 2 were just fine and there was no infection. I think my vet would have tried 1 Oxi but 3 when nothing is happening after 2 and there is green? She is such a sweet lady I hope she asks questions tomorrow after her shock lessens. take care
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:41 PM   #7
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I agree...more questions! If they were all moving at the time the Mom was left then..what happened...?? A green discharge of course most always means a uterine infection which can cause the demise of the pups,but if they were moving, the infection would have likely caused problems for them after the del. not likely during or immediately after???I hope she does question this more to help her to be able to finalize this tragedy a little more...either it was ??/Vet error or Mother nature...I'm sorry for her and you also...
The dark Green usually means detached placenta, requiring an Emergency C-Section, and too late for Oxy. Infection has a more yellowish cast to it and very stinky. The pups born to an infected Uterus usually have scarlet red bellies, that 1/10 cc of an antibiotic will help almost immediately, but continue for 5 days.
I would say that the section was done too late for the pups, but very lucky the Oxy didn't rupture a Uterus and lose the mom too!
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:58 AM   #8
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The dark Green usually means detached placenta, requiring an Emergency C-Section, and too late for Oxy. Infection has a more yellowish cast to it and very stinky. The pups born to an infected Uterus usually have scarlet red bellies, that 1/10 cc of an antibiotic will help almost immediately, but continue for 5 days.
I would say that the section was done too late for the pups, but very lucky the Oxy didn't rupture a Uterus and lose the mom too!

Thanks Deb....This is great information to know...I know this happens, its part of breeding, its just heartbreaking...you have some beautiful dogs by the way!
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:13 AM   #9
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I am so sorry for her loss. I hope momma will be ok, and I think that Vet leaves a little to be desired.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:26 AM   #10
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Had a friend that lost 7 to a c-sec once...grant it, they were also premature.

It is possible that with the green discharge, there was infection. It is also possible that the infection got into the pup's blood stream and that could have been what killed the pups. Unless your friend takes the dead pups and has another vet do an autopsy, there's no way to really tell. JMO

You are right about infection going into blood stream . Aenesthesia for the C-Section is very hard on puppies .
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Old 08-21-2007, 05:30 AM   #11
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Poor puppies...that's just tragic. How is the mom doing now ?
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Old 08-21-2007, 05:42 AM   #12
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i am so sorry for your friend. how terrible. to be so excited about an upcoming litter then, they are all gone.
i hope mommy will be ok without her little babies being around.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:40 AM   #13
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The green had just started and I good idea that 1 that detached would be dead BUT would the other 3 detach too? I haven't heard of every pup detaching or a infection so fast if caught right away. I haven't taked to her yet but I know she is going in this morning for Mia. I sure hope she is ok.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:48 AM   #14
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what a tragic loss due to an ignorant vet. that makes me so angry. he was wrong on all counts. i had experience with sections, green discharge, spayin g and dead puppies all but I only lost one puppy. Four is just such a sad loss. i hope your friend and the mama dog is okay.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:33 AM   #15
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Ok here is the final report. She went to the vet and picked up Mia. She has 12 metal staples but doing ok.

? anyone get metal staples for a C-sec?

She said she wanted the pups for a ecropsy(sp). He told her the dead animal pick up came and took the pups. (It was the end of office hours so I don't know how that happened...) Never was given the choice to see or get the dead pups.

He never told her why he thought the pups died or if they even took a breath. He would just say he worked on them for 1 hr.

He said that there was a small hole in her uterus and thought it was from all the Oxi he gave her and stated he gave her enough to put a large dog into labor. So without asking he spayed her. She wanted her spayed anyway be he told her no because of the milk. Never called to say we are in trouble here and have to spay or whatever. Not a phone call after all was said and done. She had to call him to find out what was taking so long.

She told me this morning that after the 3 shots of Oxi she saw a yellow stinky discharge. The vet never said the uterus was infected and Mia never had a temp or went off her food and she could feel the pups move on the way to the vet. I think Deb said, if there was a infection, the pups would be born with a scarlet belly and anitbotic could have been given. Nothing was said about infection just a small rupture in the uterus.
She left with Mia and her husband stayed behind to try to get answers and he was told to get out and pay your bill! He left alright but didn't pay the bill
She called th MN vet board to see if he had had any complaints and they told he he has had many and when they found out where she lived they knew right away what name she was going to give them for the complaint. So since the pups are gone we will never know what really happened. I am going to look around and see if I can find more info on infected uterus and if caught early what happens to the pups. So if any of you live in hibbing MN and need a C-sec PM me and I will tell you were NOT to go. Roxy told me to tell you all, thanks for the kind words.
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