Why Breed?

[lovelilly]

Originally Posted by Princessyorkies

I loved what you said and how you said it and although I am sure there are several on here that will not agree with you on many topics, I think what you said it how it is. :a big hug to you.hug:
I also raise yorkies and NONE of them are in kennels, as they are all raised in my home. This way they get lots of socialization and love. I have been doing this about 8 years and I love my fur babies, I love the breed and I DO try to better what is out there. That is all I will say on this as to not start a big fight so to speak as I am sick and tired of people who think they know it all... ....

There is only one thing that drives me crazy about this site...many people only see things one way. Someone who raises a few litters here and there for the love of an animal should not be compared to the filth of a puppymill or a "backyard" breeder. You can spot a terrible situation from a mile away...and you can also tell when someone is just a dear caring soul. Everyone bashed the breeder I got my puppies from and I think the world of her. She even called me yesterday just to make sure everything was going okay and if I had any questions to just call. This breeder could hardly be compared to the IDIOTS that sell puppies in boxes on the corner and know nothing about the breed itself. I find it discouraging when people can be so judgemental and think that there was is the only way out there. I do not mean to offend a single person on this site but I must say that some threads I can't even read any more because they are so overall critical. I don't want to step on anyones toes...but the world always isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

[JeanieK]

Well, like the rest of you I am aprehensive about putting in my 2 cents for fear of offending someone.

I believe both sides bring up valid points. First of all I agree with "elegantorchid" that most of the unwanted dogs in this country come from dogs that were gotten free and the people can't afford to spay or neuter so the dogs gets pregnant and then they don't know what to do so they give the puppies away, if they can, and that starts another batch of free breeders.

As for leaving the breeding only to experienced breeders; well all the experienced breeders were inexperienced at one time, unless they were born into a familly of breeders. We all have to start somewhere.

As for why anyone would want to get into it. I guess I am the perfect one to answer that because I am wanting to get into it. That is why I am here, to learn all that I can from experienced breeders and from the mistakes of inexperienced breeders. I am doing my homework and studying all I can about the breed, the genetic flaws and how to choose dogs that will compliment each other.

My reason for getting into it is for a hobby. We are retired and our children are grown and we love Yorkies. Breeding is not just a science, it is also an art and with yorkies, it is a whole lot of luck.

Yorkies are not like any other breed, because they came from mating different breeds of dogs and inbreeding until they got the desired look, and the right color and texture of coat and out breeding to get rid of the undesired traits.

But because the genes, that produce the desired qualities, are recessive genes, it take the right pair of dogs to get the right look. Add to that, the fact that different breeders and judges prefer different looks, and it makes Yorkie breeding even more of a challenge.

[mustangbee]

Originally Posted by lksdolls

I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but am having a difficult time doing that. I don't refer to myself as a breeder. I raise yorkies, home raise them in my home, just as if they were my own children. I help with the birth until they are adopted. And I check up on my babies long after they leave my next. Yes, I do it for the money, but I'm not making my living from it as most breeders are and I'm told our pups are reasonably priced and have yet to have a disappointed buyer. And, I might add that I have given away some pups to those who have lost their yorkie so it isn't just about the money. The puppies help to fill in the cracks when money is tight around here, which is most of the time. We raise yorkies for loving pets, not for show, and, because we love the breed. Does that mean our quality isn't up to your standards? Probably, but it doesn't mean we don't have quality pups. Does that mean I'm a fake breeder to your standards? Probably, BUT, more importantly, I'm a very caring person who takes very good care of our furbabies and tries to raise them to be socialable, as well as adorable. Am I an expert to your standards? No, but I have studied about yorkies, their potential health problems, etc., and, I seem to have a natural instinct when it comes to animals, and people, and that's why I have a vet. I won't sell to just anyone to make a buck. There are buyers, and then there are buyers. If the table was turned, based on your post, breeders shouldn't sell unless the buyer had studied and knew the breed inside and out. I have spent hours educating new owners. I have actually returned deposits because I didn't feel it was right. And I DO care about the future of our litters. Please don't be offended by my post. JMO

I am not offended in anyway. Thats why we have this site, to ask questions,
and learn from it. As this post started with Any opinions on Breeding. I was being honest in my feelings on Breeding.

What I have a problem with is the people who are breeding with no experience. They don't ask help from other breeders, and have no idea
what they are doing. The parents are not healthy, but they breed them anyway. All Parents should have health checks before breeding, and that is for all breeds, not just Yorkies. What happens when the Mom is having problems? They have no idea what to do, and the Mom & puppies die.
If they do make it, they are sold at six weeks. Yes I have a problem with that.
There are many Breeders who home raise their litters. And the litters are healthy wonderful pups. I don't think you have to have Show Litters just to be a Good Breeder. As long as a person fully understands about the breed, and how to care for the Mother, and puppies, before and after birth.
Breeders just don't open a book and start breeding. It takes a long time to learn.
I am sorry, because I feel I might have offended you, and I did not want to offened anyone. Breeders have to start somewhere, if they didn't we wouldn't have our furbabies.

[Sugar's Mom]

I am also in the group of those that want to breed. I am doing my homework while I wait to see if my dogs grow up to be what I want to breed. I am researching my lines and reading everything I can about yorkies, whelping, and etc. i believe I will be ready when the time comes. I have a big mouth and do not wish to offend anyone but here goes. I do not feel people should throw two dogs down on the floor to breed because they want their child to have the experience or to give it away. That's just plain wrong.

[lksdolls]

Originally Posted by mustangbee

I am not offended in anyway. Thats why we have this site, to ask questions,
and learn from it. As this post started with Any opinions on Breeding. I was being honest in my feelings on Breeding.

What I have a problem with is the people who are breeding with no experience. They don't ask help from other breeders, and have no idea
what they are doing. The parents are not healthy, but they breed them anyway. All Parents should have health checks before breeding, and that is for all breeds, not just Yorkies. What happens when the Mom is having problems? They have no idea what to do, and the Mom & puppies die.
If they do make it, they are sold at six weeks. Yes I have a problem with that.
There are many Breeders who home raise their litters. And the litters are healthy wonderful pups. I don't think you have to have Show Litters just to be a Good Breeder. As long as a person fully understands about the breed, and how to care for the Mother, and puppies, before and after birth.
Breeders just don't open a book and start breeding. It takes a long time to learn.
I am sorry, because I feel I might have offended you, and I did not want to offened anyone. Breeders have to start somewhere, if they didn't we wouldn't have our furbabies.

I'm not offended, I simply didn't agree with your blanket view. Your explanation here is quite different from your first post. I couldn't agree with you more now. I cringe when I hear that someone bought a pup at 6 weeks. Although, I brought a 5 week old home, well, actually, I snuck the pup on the plane but the breeder only let me have her because we were expecting a litter within days and I already had experience feeding from a bottle, but that's another story. I won't let mine go until at least 10 weeks but prefer 12 weeks, although I have let them go at 8-9 weeks if the buyer already has a yorkie, or even has other animals. But, that is the exception and rare. I do ship but not until 12 weeks and if the pup is small, 16 weeks plus. It makes it harder on me because I become so attached to them at birth, but I know it's better for them and I want to make sure they are very healthy, growing and learning as they should be. And unlike many breeders who do their own shots and stuff...........I have the vet do it because he is trained to know what to look for if there is a problem.

[Tashasmom]

lks and lovelilly..you two have just said what i've wanted to say since I started this forum. I am tired of holding it in. I may offend by saying this but if I do I am sorry ahead of time but here goes..probably be hated from here out and nervous but i'm going to be upfront. I don't agree with showing..whew..o.k. why..well if I were a dog I wouldn't want to sit at a table day in and day out being brushed and wrapped and god knows what. I have dogs because i want them to go camping with me..to swim in a lake with me to get down right dirty in the garden with me. Not to be put in a ring. I can't watch a dog show because the leash doesn't even look comfortable..the way they have to hold their head really upsets me. It doesn't even look comfortable. If a few people were to come to my house and they all said i was ugly i wasn't built to the standard person..does that make me ugly...ask my husband..ask the people that love me the same quiestion. Now I do think that if you breed you should breed to the standard and breed for quality..But i don't think that i shouldn't breed because a bunch of people that show their dogs say I shouldn't..Not to mention now don't get mad..but alot of dog shows are political I don't like that either.
Now agility..that looks fun. I totally see why people do that. YOu can tell the dogs are really enjoying theirselves..
If I've offended i'm sorry but i've been offended every single time I hear someone say if your not a show dog breeder then your nothing but a backyard breeder.
My dogs as well don't live in cages. Nor will I just give them away when they are done producing. If I get to where I have too many dogs to care for then I will just have to give up breeding. I could no way love something for five years only to toss it aside. If breeding is truly a hobby then how could someone toss aside something they say they love. I also know that alot of show breeders keep their dogs in kennels. And they say they know whats best. Well lets put you in a prison and see how you feel. If you truly knew all that you say about yorkies you would know that they require FREEDOM and companionship..not a 4x4 cell.

[SnowWa]

WhispersMom2 -- I totally agree with you - not one of the following is a good reason to breed....

1. I want my kids to see the birth
2. My family loves my dog and they want one
3. My dog is so sweet and I want another like it
4. They are just sooooo sweet that I want another one
5. (I'll add this one)... I want my pet to have one litter before I spay her. It's only fair to let her experience having puppies at least once.

------------------------------------------

For those of you who want your children to watch the birth -- I think this is a terrible price for a little mother Yorkie to pay for a few minutes education for your children -- And more so with little Yorkies than many other breeds, because there are often complications, a lot of suffering, C-sections, and even the mother or some of the pups not living through the birth.

Sometimes I want to say, "If you want you children to see a baby being born -you have the baby and let your children watch that birth." There aren't many of us who would be willing to have a baby for that reason - but we'll let our pets have babies for that reason......

If you want your children to see an animal being born, get some National Geographic movies or watch Animal Planet. I have seen every conceivable animal in the world give birth on TV - sometimes these are very wonderful experiences with excellent professional filming, etc.


However, if you want to breed dogs - and

1) You are willing to study and learn a lot before you start, and
2) You have financial ability to cover a lot of possible expenses, and
3) You can be with the new little pups and mother 24/7 for a long time, and
4) You want to breed for the right reasons -

Then - go for it! All good breeders have to start someplace.


Good Luck! Carol Jean

[Tashasmom]

I had to get back up out of bed cause i was so upset by what was said to that poor girl. so I'm going to say to her what should of been said from the beginning.

Yougetthesmiles..i think it's a wonderful idea that you want to breed. My advice to you hon would be to start doing your research now. Read everything that you can so you know the breed standard health issues ect. If by the time your female matures you feel that she isn't what you feel is the standard then it would be a good time to search out your foundation bitch as well as a stud. If you don't have a mentor close to your home I would be happy to fill in til you can find one. I would also be happy to help you even after that. Breeding is rewarding as well as heartbreaking at times. If it's something you really want to do then I'd say go for it. I don't regret my decision to breed. Good luck and I"m here if you need me.

[yorkiemom1970]

Originally Posted by whispersmom2

The very first statement that I make to someone who asks me what can they do to start breeding (or similar questions) is "DO NOT BREED THE FAMILY PET!" Obviously, if you buy a puppy because you want a pet, it is not being sold as breed quality. PLUS, just do a search and you will find the sad and sometimes fatal outcomes of putting 2 dogs together to make babies because 1. I want my kids to see the birth; 2. my family loves my dog and they want one; 3. my dog is so sweet and I want another like it;4. they are just sooooo sweet that I want another one.
Pat and I can tell you from experience that not one of these reasons hold water. There have been many sweet PETS who died during pregnancy or nursing puppies. As sweet and cute as any Yorkie is-you probably are not gonna get another one just like it-even if you use the same parents. Not knowing which lines throw which genetic problems can cause more heartbreak than you can imagine.
So far, in the past year, I am over $10,000.00 in the RED because I have decided to re-direct my breeding program. Even just one litter can cause more heartbreak than you can imagine. Read the posts of both experienced and inexperienced breeders who have lost beloved moms secondary to problems with nursing(eclampsia); she was too small to carry the litter and her organs shut down; or the inexperienced person who had not counted on an emergency c-section, didn't recognize the problems that said one was needed, and had not saved the thousand dollars( or more) for the surgery AND then, still lost the puppies.
Do I sound like I am discouraging the kind of breeding that this post deals with? Well, I am. If you are serious about starting a breeding program, approach it the right way. Research the lines; learn the genetics; get a mentor. Then, after say 3 years, you might be ready to breed as opposed to just making puppies.
Please do not take this as coming from someone who is trying to eliminate competition....responsible breeders can never produce the number of puppies that the buyers are demanding so that is the least of our worries. We have seen the heartbreak that unlearned breeding has caused and we would not wish that on anyone..

[yorkiemom1970]

Originally Posted by lksdolls

I'm not offended, I simply didn't agree with your blanket view. Your explanation here is quite different from your first post. I couldn't agree with you more now. I cringe when I hear that someone bought a pup at 6 weeks. Although, I brought a 5 week old home, well, actually, I snuck the pup on the plane but the breeder only let me have her because we were expecting a litter within days and I already had experience feeding from a bottle, but that's another story. I won't let mine go until at least 10 weeks but prefer 12 weeks, although I have let them go at 8-9 weeks if the buyer already has a yorkie, or even has other animals. But, that is the exception and rare. I do ship but not until 12 weeks and if the pup is small, 16 weeks plus. It makes it harder on me because I become so attached to them at birth, but I know it's better for them and I want to make sure they are very healthy, growing and learning as they should be. And unlike many breeders who do their own shots and stuff...........I have the vet do it because he is trained to know what to look for if there is a problem.

I only have one thing I'd like to elaborate on in your post...Most breeders who have been at it for a very long time and have tons of experience are also very well trained at giving their own vaccines, doing their tails and dew claws, ect. This does not mean they are cutting corners. My vet personally trained me on how to properly administer a vaccine and dock a tail. I CHOOSE to dock my own tails because I prefer a specific length and I didn't always get what I asked for from my vet. It is a breeder's right to vaccinate and perform any other procedures that they see fit and are comfortable with on their own puppies. There are also extremely picky breeders who prefer not to take their young pups in to a vet (around other dogs/cats) unless their is a real medical need until they have had their first vaccine. I happen to be one of those picky breeders. Not trying to offend, just being honest. Best wishes,

[yorkieK9trainer]

I think that while your intentions are well minded, I think you'd be breeding for the wrong reasons. If you want your kids to experience the miracle of birth,get a pet mouse or rodent. They find homes fast or become snake food. The life span on most mice are short and well lived.
A dog on the other hand has many years ahead of it to be concerned w/.
And remember that each time you breed your female you put her at risk or injury or worse yet, death-it's really gotta be worth it to you and those involved.
If you've decided to do it (nothing really wrong w/ that) then I would make an informed decision. Have her x-rayed (do ALL the x-rays you'd do on a larger breed of dog. Hips/Elbows/Patellas; have her eyes checked; have her heart checked &c.) If all these come back satisfactory, and she's for all foreseeable purposes should be able to carry and pass puppies, I'd find a knowledgeable breeder that is willing to work w/ you on a suited match for her. If you can't find one that is willing to work w/ you and you choose a male on your own, I think the most important thing at that point (assuming he passed all of his health checks like your female) then I would pick a male w/ a similar phenotype to your girl. (similar in physical structure)

If you do decide to breed her...we want photos!

[lksdolls]

Originally Posted by Tashasmom

lks and lovelilly..you two have just said what i've wanted to say since I started this forum. I am tired of holding it in. I may offend by saying this but if I do I am sorry ahead of time but here goes..probably be hated from here out and nervous but i'm going to be upfront. I don't agree with showing..whew..o.k. why..well if I were a dog I wouldn't want to sit at a table day in and day out being brushed and wrapped and god knows what. I have dogs because i want them to go camping with me..to swim in a lake with me to get down right dirty in the garden with me. Not to be put in a ring. I can't watch a dog show because the leash doesn't even look comfortable..the way they have to hold their head really upsets me. It doesn't even look comfortable. If a few people were to come to my house and they all said i was ugly i wasn't built to the standard person..does that make me ugly...ask my husband..ask the people that love me the same quiestion. Now I do think that if you breed you should breed to the standard and breed for quality..But i don't think that i shouldn't breed because a bunch of people that show their dogs say I shouldn't..Not to mention now don't get mad..but alot of dog shows are political I don't like that either.
Now agility..that looks fun. I totally see why people do that. YOu can tell the dogs are really enjoying theirselves..
If I've offended i'm sorry but i've been offended every single time I hear someone say if your not a show dog breeder then your nothing but a backyard breeder.
My dogs as well don't live in cages. Nor will I just give them away when they are done producing. If I get to where I have too many dogs to care for then I will just have to give up breeding. I could no way love something for five years only to toss it aside. If breeding is truly a hobby then how could someone toss aside something they say they love. I also know that alot of show breeders keep their dogs in kennels. And they say they know whats best. Well lets put you in a prison and see how you feel. If you truly knew all that you say about yorkies you would know that they require FREEDOM and companionship..not a 4x4 cell.

Reggie is seven and the best mom. I decided this will be her last litter, due the end of this month. There's no way in hell I would get rid of her because she was no longer producing! I would never give away a family member. And it's a good thing that humans don't have a "standard" they have to look live in order to compete in this world.

[red98vett]

Well....I can add my 2 cents. I dont breed ...but think about it ALOT.

What I read on this thread were straightforward opinions. People get so up in arms over truthful statements, and what they should see is the information being shared ....and not get offended if there are certain things that they don't agree with....We never will agree with everyone - but even things we don't like to read can be something to think about.

IF I WERE to breed - I'd want the good, the bad, and the ugly before I made up my mind...I don't think anyone was posting here to offend anyone at all...they were just being honest.

The breeders who answered this are NOT thinking they 'know it all'....They have BEEN THERE and are sharing their experience.... I can appreciate that and IF I were the original poster here...I'd WANT to hear all this.

Breeding is NOT CUTE and Fun...it's real work....I appreciate the things posted because there should be alot of thought that goes into breeding ...rather than someone wanting cute puppies....and I think it's great for someone who wants to breed to hear all aspects before jumping in.

just my humble opinion and hope I didn't offend anyone either...To anyone who's thinking of breeding - KEEP READING - you'll find a ton of helpful advise here...

[yougetthesmiles]

After reading everyones opinion, here is my thought...
Kloey is just like one of my children, I love her dearly! She has helped me in so many ways, after my accident with the Doberman, she put me at peace and I would NEVER EVER in a million years ever put her in harms way, so on that note, I think I will keep her safe and away from all them studs! But I still would love to breed the Yorkie because I am in love with this breed, but maybe in the future and with another female!
I treasure all of your opionions here and I'm glad I have a place to come to learn more about my girl, that means a lot to me and to Kloey! So Tuesday we go to the vet for are check-up and I think I will talk to her about having her fixed!
Thanks Friends!

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by yougetthesmiles

After reading everyones opinion, here is my thought...
Kloey is just like one of my children, I love her dearly! She has helped me in so many ways, after my accident with the Doberman, she put me at peace and I would NEVER EVER in a million years ever put her in harms way, so on that note, I think I will keep her safe and away from all them studs! But I still would love to breed the Yorkie because I am in love with this breed, but maybe in the future and with another female!
I treasure all of your opionions here and I'm glad I have a place to come to learn more about my girl, that means a lot to me and to Kloey! So Tuesday we go to the vet for are check-up and I think I will talk to her about having her fixed!
Thanks Friends!

You and I think the same way...I thought so hard about breeding my Chanel......I even had someone who would mentor me...but I just kept thinking...what if I lost her ? I just couldn't take that chance...

she's now 4 and became such a fast huge part of my heart I'd be a puddle of worry if she became pregnant......She's my soulmate....but I sure would have LOVED to have puppies from her.....Whatever you decide...you'll know it's right for you...and good luck and I also would love to get a female and give it a go.....but that is just a dream....