Brokers vs. Breeders - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

YorkieRose · 02-24-2006, 06:02 AM

I do not believe Brokers are bad people either..they are people like all of us..some good, some bad. I fault the breeder in this area..not a broker.

My question is this..why would a breeder NEED a broker? There can only few reasons..they breed in such volume as their income, therefore they must have a 100% cash in hand way to move the pups from the kennel on a regular basis etc.

If a breeder has 30 pups, they must find 30 homes, that is very time consuming and each week they keep the pups there is less profit. They can not breed more pups until those 30 are gone or lose profits..since it is an income that is not an option. The broker is the solution.
What reasons would a small hobby breeder like myself have to deal with a broker?
The reasons I have been told are..

I do not like dealing with all the "nuts" looking for pups...me either!
I do not want the stress of finding new homes..me either!
I do not have time to devote to selling pups..me either!
I do not want strangers in my home..me either!
I love breeding, hate selling..me too!
They live in a remote area and there are no buyers.
Unless you live in the Outback, there is usually a large city to avertize in the newspaper..and people will come to a reputable breeder..I have gone to some very remote places myself..but this does not work for a volume breeder who must move the pups out with no hazzles. JMO

yorkiegirl2 · 02-24-2006, 06:58 AM

IMO..This is not just a black and white area...
Brokers can be good or bad..There can be gray area as well.
One that acts as an agent for others, as in negotiating contracts, purchases, or sales in return for a fee or commission.

I have seen websites that are selling friends pups.
Are these people brokers?

If you help a friend sell pups .. and your friend take you out to lunch, buy you something or sell you a pup for a reduced price in return for the help.
Would you call yourself a brokers?

A broker can be someone who know several breeders and does the leg work of screening, running ads, weeding out the nuts, keeping people away from breeders home who are afraid someone will steal their dogs.

Yes, I think there are good and bad brokers ..just like good and bad breeders.
You just have to know the difference.

michiko · 02-24-2006, 07:06 AM

I avoid brokers.. I mean.. who knows.. they might be really passionate about dogs.. and there might be some nice people.. But .. I don't feel good about getting a pup from a broker... I would like to get a yorkie from someone who specialize yorkies intead of someone who has different breeds... So I feel more comfortable asking questions....

I have contacted brokers when i was still new on YT.. but.. I feel clearly.. that

about broker..!!

red98vett · 02-24-2006, 07:07 AM

I've read that most of the reputable breeders who do sell for friends ...usually do it to help each other out. Maybe.. they work out something between themselves but ....A broker actually BUYS the puppies.... then resells at a higher price.

red98vett · 02-24-2006, 07:21 AM

This is actually a good thread for anyone new to buying puppies....Before I started posting on yorkie sites - I didn't even know there were puppy Brokers out there. There's so much to learn when you get involved with buying or wanting a purebreed dog it blows my mind...especially with the Internet...there are so many sites claiming to be breeding & selling puppies that are actually brokers....it's a shame - Too many people don't see beyond the "Nice" site and end up dealing with a broker because they didn't know any better.

Doing research and reading boards like this can be a huge help to a new person looking for a puppy.

YorkieRose · 02-24-2006, 07:24 AM

Gray areas..so true.
I do not believe I have ever met a breeder who has not referred a client to friends with puppies. People have been generous and bought me a gift, sent a nice card, nice dinner etc...but in the eyes of the AKC and Yorkie club this does not fit the Broker profile. A broker buys the pups and resells to pet shops, dealers etc.
A person who has a business as a "Referring broker"..a term I just made up. To me it would be a person who get paid to refer buyers to the breeder..but the buyer actually deals with the breeder, sees the parents, kennel, home, talks with the breeders vets on and on..this is what the "puppy Referral" person in any breed club does..but they do not receive an income from this...are they are a broker, perhaps according to technical terms, but not by the rules of AKC and breed club, therefore acceptable in practice.
Does this make any sense..?

fl24019 · 02-24-2006, 07:55 AM

There are good brokers and agents. Do you think Bill Cosby or Amy Tan shopped for their show dogs on the internet? No, they know someone in the dog world who knows who's breeding what and they get a fee for finding a puppy that will take them to the top.

I'm sorry, but the labels and blanket condemnation I see here are SO frustrating.

diva pup · 02-24-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fl24019

There are good brokers and agents. Do you think Bill Cosby or Amy Tan shopped for their show dogs on the internet? No, they know someone in the dog world who knows who's breeding what and they get a fee for finding a puppy that will take them to the top.

I'm sorry, but the labels and blanket condemnation I see here are SO frustrating.

And people with blinders on are equally frustrating. I am pretty sure Bill Cosby didn't get his last Westminster dog from a mill in Missouri. COME ON....

LaviniaHyacynth · 02-24-2006, 08:17 AM

I knew this would turn ugly....I find it interesting that apparently many of you did not read the posts from the people on here that actually bought their dog through a broker.....if they did they would have at least learned that all brokers are not bad...the one I dealt with breeds fabulous dogs in her home and once again does everything that the breeders on here do....she believes in the breeders network that she developed and holds them to a very high standard....THESE breeders are breeders who have their puppies in their homes and follow all the same rules set forth by the breeders on YT...WHy do they do it?... why don't you call one and ask them that question before you try,convict and execute them in a public forum....I thought we learned this lesson before now.

YorkieRini · 02-24-2006, 08:38 AM

For me it's nothing personal against the broker or the breeder. I don't know them. I have yet to hear of brokers provide the following:

*Name of the breeder and contact info
*History of health problems in the line
*Guarantee pup for health
*Show parents in person
*provide lifetime support

Though these may be nice caring people. I think they way the place puppies is completely wrong. First, these young puppies are stressed uneccessarily moving from the breeders home to the broker, then from the broker to the new owner. That is extremely tramatic for a puppy.

Biewers are being brokered in the US like you wouldn't believe. Most of them are being sold for breeding by brokers. Brokers arent' telling these breeders how to register litters, they don't know the lines, they don't offer guarantees, they do not really know the history, they lie and say people can only buy puppies from them, and they are selling Biewers that are not within the standard for breeding...Biewers with mostly white are not good candidates for breeding. I've heard brokers say teh opposite. You want more white. They may be nice people who love dogs but that's just wrong. Don't forget these little pups are being shipped from Germany and kept at the broker until they are sold, then again shipped to the new owners house. That is cruel!..All for what..the mighty buck!!

I would like to add some breeders are just as crappy and shady.

I don't want to make anyone feel bad if they have bought through a broker. I hope you have had a good experience, hopefully those that are looking for a puppy will just be careful.

LaviniaHyacynth · 02-24-2006, 08:43 AM

Irene, I appreciate your thoughtful response...it is an informed and non hostile opinion based on your knowledge.

Please let me add that my broker did give me all of the info you listed...I have been in contact with the breeder and had all the records from the attending vet to give to my vet.

YorkieRini · 02-24-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaviniaHyacynth

Irene, I appreciate your thoughtful response...it is an informed and non hostile opinion based on your knowledge.

Please let me add that my broker did give me all of the info you listed...I have been in contact with the breeder and had all the records from the attending vet to give to my vet.

I'm glad you didn't take what I said personal. I do not know or have heard anything about Divapup specifically. So I can't make a comment on her. Glad to hear she provided all that stuff.

Sherry Lynn · 02-24-2006, 09:08 AM

Kathryn, let me first say that I'm glad you had such a good experience. I've never dealt with Divapup, but I have had personal experience with a local broker here in Jersey and it was a horrible experience.

Since she's posted about it before, I don't think Teri88 and her daughter MeganS would mind my saying that they also had a terrible experience with the same broker. We almost lost our Eskie from kennel cough and trying to get the broker to follow up on the health care promise was a nightmare.

We were lucky. Teri and Megan lost their little Bandit to liver shunt.

Dealing with the broker was even worse for them. If anyone is interested, I think they would share your story if you asked.

I'm not sure what they're called this month (the name constantly changes because they have so many problems) but they have done business in the past as American Breeders and Breeder's Puppies. Just about every weekend there are people picketing in front of the business and it breaks my heart because I know another family has gone through the heartache that Teri's family and mine went through.

They also told us all the right things before we bought Fiona and talked about the breeder like they were personal friends. They told us that all of their pups were born in the homes of small-time breeders that just didn't like to get involved in the sales process. Months later when we finally got some paperwork out of them it showed completely different information from what we were told. What can I say. I was gullible and clueless.

So I can only say that the broker experience I had was one of the worst experiences of my life.

I only wish that I had access to the information that is so readily available on this forum back then. If anyone decides to shop through a broker, at least they can learn here and know what they are getting into and not be such a dolt as I was.

Sherry Lynn · 02-24-2006, 09:22 AM

I got off on my broker tangent and forgot about breeders....

While I know there are bad breeders out there, all of my experiences with breeders (both before and after dealing with the broker) have been good. We've found breeders from Internet searches, referals and through YT.

It also might be worth mentioning that I don't care to breed or show, I just wanted healthy happy pets.

YorkieRose · 02-24-2006, 09:25 AM

Kathryn..I am missing something. You say they breed their own pups, how does this make them a broker..? Do they buy other pups from people and resell them? I do not fault the broker for buying and selling, it is their business, this is America and they may do what is legal.
I fault the breeder for using a broker and having no clue what happens to their pups, no say in who buys them, no continuing relationship with the puppy owner..that is so needed.

If you ever breed a litter, I promise you it takes a hard hearted person to hand that litter over to a broker, walk away and have no idea where the pup is going...or worse yet knowing it is going to a dealer or pet shop.

02-24-2006, 06:02 AM	#16
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Brokers I do not believe Brokers are bad people either..they are people like all of us..some good, some bad. I fault the breeder in this area..not a broker. My question is this..why would a breeder NEED a broker? There can only few reasons..they breed in such volume as their income, therefore they must have a 100% cash in hand way to move the pups from the kennel on a regular basis etc. If a breeder has 30 pups, they must find 30 homes, that is very time consuming and each week they keep the pups there is less profit. They can not breed more pups until those 30 are gone or lose profits..since it is an income that is not an option. The broker is the solution. What reasons would a small hobby breeder like myself have to deal with a broker? The reasons I have been told are.. I do not like dealing with all the "nuts" looking for pups...me either! I do not want the stress of finding new homes..me either! I do not have time to devote to selling pups..me either! I do not want strangers in my home..me either! I love breeding, hate selling..me too! They live in a remote area and there are no buyers. Unless you live in the Outback, there is usually a large city to avertize in the newspaper..and people will come to a reputable breeder..I have gone to some very remote places myself..but this does not work for a volume breeder who must move the pups out with no hazzles. JMO Last edited by YorkieRose; 02-24-2006 at 06:05 AM.

02-24-2006, 07:06 AM	#18
michiko The Yorkie Sitter Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 2,350	I avoid brokers.. I mean.. who knows.. they might be really passionate about dogs.. and there might be some nice people.. But .. I don't feel good about getting a pup from a broker... I would like to get a yorkie from someone who specialize yorkies intead of someone who has different breeds... So I feel more comfortable asking questions.... I have contacted brokers when i was still new on YT.. but.. I feel clearly.. that about broker..!! __________________ Michiko (Ethicist) and Haruka(Fragrance of Spring Flowers) [/URL][/COLOR]

02-24-2006, 07:07 AM	#19
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	I've read that most of the reputable breeders who do sell for friends ...usually do it to help each other out. Maybe.. they work out something between themselves but ....A broker actually BUYS the puppies.... then resells at a higher price. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE! Last edited by red98vett; 02-24-2006 at 07:10 AM.

02-24-2006, 07:21 AM	#20
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	This is actually a good thread for anyone new to buying puppies....Before I started posting on yorkie sites - I didn't even know there were puppy Brokers out there. There's so much to learn when you get involved with buying or wanting a purebreed dog it blows my mind...especially with the Internet...there are so many sites claiming to be breeding & selling puppies that are actually brokers....it's a shame - Too many people don't see beyond the "Nice" site and end up dealing with a broker because they didn't know any better. Doing research and reading boards like this can be a huge help to a new person looking for a puppy. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

02-24-2006, 08:17 AM	#24
LaviniaHyacynth Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: montclair,nj Posts: 925	I knew this would turn ugly....I find it interesting that apparently many of you did not read the posts from the people on here that actually bought their dog through a broker.....if they did they would have at least learned that all brokers are not bad...the one I dealt with breeds fabulous dogs in her home and once again does everything that the breeders on here do....she believes in the breeders network that she developed and holds them to a very high standard....THESE breeders are breeders who have their puppies in their homes and follow all the same rules set forth by the breeders on YT...WHy do they do it?... why don't you call one and ask them that question before you try,convict and execute them in a public forum....I thought we learned this lesson before now. __________________ Rest in peace my sweet angel dog, Lavinia Hyacynth, Vivi. I love you forever. Bear healed my broken heart!

02-24-2006, 06:58 AM	#17
yorkiegirl2 YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,394	IMO..This is not just a black and white area... Brokers can be good or bad..There can be gray area as well. One that acts as an agent for others, as in negotiating contracts, purchases, or sales in return for a fee or commission. I have seen websites that are selling friends pups. Are these people brokers? If you help a friend sell pups .. and your friend take you out to lunch, buy you something or sell you a pup for a reduced price in return for the help. Would you call yourself a brokers? A broker can be someone who know several breeders and does the leg work of screening, running ads, weeding out the nuts, keeping people away from breeders home who are afraid someone will steal their dogs. Yes, I think there are good and bad brokers ..just like good and bad breeders. You just have to know the difference.

02-24-2006, 07:24 AM	#21
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Gray areas..so true. I do not believe I have ever met a breeder who has not referred a client to friends with puppies. People have been generous and bought me a gift, sent a nice card, nice dinner etc...but in the eyes of the AKC and Yorkie club this does not fit the Broker profile. A broker buys the pups and resells to pet shops, dealers etc. A person who has a business as a "Referring broker"..a term I just made up. To me it would be a person who get paid to refer buyers to the breeder..but the buyer actually deals with the breeder, sees the parents, kennel, home, talks with the breeders vets on and on..this is what the "puppy Referral" person in any breed club does..but they do not receive an income from this...are they are a broker, perhaps according to technical terms, but not by the rules of AKC and breed club, therefore acceptable in practice. Does this make any sense..?

02-24-2006, 07:55 AM	#22
fl24019 BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Creola, Alabama Posts: 86	There are good brokers and agents. Do you think Bill Cosby or Amy Tan shopped for their show dogs on the internet? No, they know someone in the dog world who knows who's breeding what and they get a fee for finding a puppy that will take them to the top. I'm sorry, but the labels and blanket condemnation I see here are SO frustrating.

02-24-2006, 08:38 AM	#25
YorkieRini Livin' La Yorkie Local Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,607	For me it's nothing personal against the broker or the breeder. I don't know them. I have yet to hear of brokers provide the following: Name of the breeder and contact info History of health problems in the line Guarantee pup for health Show parents in person provide lifetime support Though these may be nice caring people. I think they way the place puppies is completely wrong. First, these young puppies are stressed uneccessarily moving from the breeders home to the broker, then from the broker to the new owner. That is extremely tramatic for a puppy. Biewers are being brokered in the US like you wouldn't believe. Most of them are being sold for breeding by brokers. Brokers arent' telling these breeders how to register litters, they don't know the lines, they don't offer guarantees, they do not really know the history, they lie and say people can only buy puppies from them, and they are selling Biewers that are not within the standard for breeding...Biewers with mostly white are not good candidates for breeding. I've heard brokers say teh opposite. You want more white. They may be nice people who love dogs but that's just wrong. Don't forget these little pups are being shipped from Germany and kept at the broker until they are sold, then again shipped to the new owners house. That is cruel!..All for what..the mighty buck!! I would like to add some breeders are just as crappy and shady. I don't want to make anyone feel bad if they have bought through a broker. I hope you have had a good experience, hopefully those that are looking for a puppy will just be careful. Last edited by YorkieRini; 02-24-2006 at 08:41 AM.*

02-24-2006, 08:43 AM	#26
LaviniaHyacynth Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: montclair,nj Posts: 925	Irene, I appreciate your thoughtful response...it is an informed and non hostile opinion based on your knowledge. Please let me add that my broker did give me all of the info you listed...I have been in contact with the breeder and had all the records from the attending vet to give to my vet. __________________ Rest in peace my sweet angel dog, Lavinia Hyacynth, Vivi. I love you forever. Bear healed my broken heart! Last edited by LaviniaHyacynth; 02-24-2006 at 08:45 AM.

02-24-2006, 09:08 AM	#28
Sherry Lynn Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,437	Kathryn, let me first say that I'm glad you had such a good experience. I've never dealt with Divapup, but I have had personal experience with a local broker here in Jersey and it was a horrible experience. Since she's posted about it before, I don't think Teri88 and her daughter MeganS would mind my saying that they also had a terrible experience with the same broker. We almost lost our Eskie from kennel cough and trying to get the broker to follow up on the health care promise was a nightmare. We were lucky. Teri and Megan lost their little Bandit to liver shunt. Dealing with the broker was even worse for them. If anyone is interested, I think they would share your story if you asked. I'm not sure what they're called this month (the name constantly changes because they have so many problems) but they have done business in the past as American Breeders and Breeder's Puppies. Just about every weekend there are people picketing in front of the business and it breaks my heart because I know another family has gone through the heartache that Teri's family and mine went through. They also told us all the right things before we bought Fiona and talked about the breeder like they were personal friends. They told us that all of their pups were born in the homes of small-time breeders that just didn't like to get involved in the sales process. Months later when we finally got some paperwork out of them it showed completely different information from what we were told. What can I say. I was gullible and clueless. So I can only say that the broker experience I had was one of the worst experiences of my life. I only wish that I had access to the information that is so readily available on this forum back then. If anyone decides to shop through a broker, at least they can learn here and know what they are getting into and not be such a dolt as I was. __________________ Sherry Lynn Dublin and Widget

02-24-2006, 09:22 AM	#29
Sherry Lynn Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,437	I got off on my broker tangent and forgot about breeders.... While I know there are bad breeders out there, all of my experiences with breeders (both before and after dealing with the broker) have been good. We've found breeders from Internet searches, referals and through YT. It also might be worth mentioning that I don't care to breed or show, I just wanted healthy happy pets. __________________ Sherry Lynn Dublin and Widget

02-24-2006, 09:25 AM	#30
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Kathryn Kathryn..I am missing something. You say they breed their own pups, how does this make them a broker..? Do they buy other pups from people and resell them? I do not fault the broker for buying and selling, it is their business, this is America and they may do what is legal. I fault the breeder for using a broker and having no clue what happens to their pups, no say in who buys them, no continuing relationship with the puppy owner..that is so needed. If you ever breed a litter, I promise you it takes a hard hearted person to hand that litter over to a broker, walk away and have no idea where the pup is going...or worse yet knowing it is going to a dealer or pet shop.