ok breeders get ready...because Im not!!! - Page 7 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

cally930 · 04-11-2011, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

You have to know that the title of your thread and your first post are very alarming. Why did you wait until it was obvious from several of us that you had left the wrong impression? It took until post 35 before you came on and said you have whelping experience with small dogs. Quite a flair for drama you have there. Were you just trying to get a stir out of us? Nobody was mis-reading things. You left out critical info that would have made a world of difference in our replies. I, for one, don't like to be toyed with in this manner.

Best of luck, but on this one......I'm GONE FISHING!

WOW!!! Really?

cally930 · 04-11-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Prehaps, 35 yrs of dealing with all types of breeders has jaded me...if there is money involved, the breeder will continue...

I will admit to doing some not so legal things to retrieve Yorkies...like climbing over a few fences and taking dogs who lived in chicken houses, barns and cranked out litter after litter...sick and suffering Yorkies...

My friend would sit in the car with the motor running and prayed I did not get caught...used a trash can to climb over a stockard fence, only to find out I had no way to get back over the fence...literally had to crawl under the peoples window and out the gate...
Jay Ammons once broke into a persons home to retrieve one of her Yorkies that was being abused (she climbed in a bathroom window)..we agreed, some things are worth a jail sentence.

I wish Kendra all the best and hope she has great success educating the breeder...

OMG!!! I must say - you are an amazing woman!!

YorkieRose · 04-11-2011, 07:27 AM

Kendra, a point was brought up that reminded me a contract really., really has to be made giving you the right to make any and all decision...ER's happen and you might not be able to contact the breeder asap...s without blame falling back on you.
Pups can be lost for many reasons...breeder might insist on you replacing a pup who might accidental die before returned...or an unexplained death can result in you having to pay for an autopsy...just depends on the ethic's of this breeder and how she will react to you in the case of serious vet expenses...

I did whelp a potential show litter for a club friend once...4 born alive..2 born without front legs and dead...owner was away for 4 weeks...her first words to me..."I would have liked to have seen them"....BINGO, they were frozen in the garage freeze...I "ain't" no fool!
Stud was number one at the time...

KendraE · 04-11-2011, 07:48 AM

Wow...yes, this is all very overwhelming. Let me answer a few of your questions......

First off, everyone keeps asking if Mac, Bevo and Macs mother have been spayed/neutered. Mac is 7 weeks old today, but he will be when he is old enough. He is still nursing, so no, the momma dog hasnt been fixed yet either. Her owner has promised to do this, but I am actaully going to offer to take her myself to ensure that it is done. YES, we are going to have BOTH boys neutered. I was going to wait and let them have a father/son neutering date together! I again, only bred Bevo for a pup. I know what an irresponsible thing it was to do now. I have learned alot from YT. But, we love little Mac so very much, and I think God had a play in him being the only pup in the litter.

I believe the "breeder" has 4 or 5 female yorkies of breeding age. I dont think she has had alot of litters. I know Mac was that females first and hopefully last. The female that is pregnant right now is also her first. The female that has the two pups right now, I think she told me it was her 3rd?? And the other female(s), Im really not sure. I dont think she has a ton of experience, just wants to breed. And yes, I think its all for money. She is basically just beginning to expand. Thats why I want her to slow down right now and make her think! She hasnt had any horrible experiences yet. And again I say YET...Again, In the very beginning of all this mess, I had no idea she had several dogs. I thought she just had Macs momma.

When she offered to let me have a pup out of this litter (because Mac was a blue), I ceratinly didnt jump on it. As I have previously said, the only reason we ever bred Bevo was to have a pup for my daughter who is 15. (again, i know I should not have done this, but did) She has been wanting a female yorkie for a long while. I told her after Mac was born, we would take our time and look for a good, reputable breeder to find her a baby girl in the future. We were in no hurry. But here is a yorkie being handed to me....a yorkie that God only knows where it will end up. I ultamately have decided to take it. And yes, it will be fixed. Bringing the female to my home was my idea. But, let me explain why.....
Mac and his mother came to my home when he was a few days old. The breeder was having some remodeling done and was afraid the noise was upsetting the female and she would hurt Mac. What was supposed to be a few days of her staying with us, has turned into 6 1/2 weeks. I kept her by choice. Mac has thrived...I wonder how different his spunky, loving, personality would be if he had beed raised in a cage? He runs and plays...he has learned to pull himself up the doggy stairs to the couch and patters up our bodies to nuzzle himself in our necks. Would he even be the same puppy? I shudder at the thought of him being caged up.
So, this female....things have worked out so well with Mac that I thought I could do a better job with her and her pups. I guess because I know they would be loved while here. I know I wont lock them up their first few months on this world. The pup we would keep would be raised in our home like Mac. They could stay longer with their mother. And it would give me more time that I would HAVE to be in communication with this breeder. It would give me a reason to keep talking to her. Ultamately, when I finally have to send Macs momma home, I will have no excuse anymore to talk with her. To tell her the good, bad and ugly of breeding.

You all are right....I am really actually changing nothing. All this will do is give the breeder a vacation from caring for the litter. Will she breed the momma again, most likely. Can I stop her...no, but I can try. Can I forcibly keep the pups till they are 12 weeks? Maybe if I make her sign a contract. Will that really make a differnce? No..they will still be sold and end up who knows where. So, all I can really do is keep talking...encouraging her to leave breeding to the experts, to not take chances with these babies lives. Maybe if I keep talking, she will eventually hear me. I could offer to buy all her dogs, have them fixed and find them homes, but she would probably just buy more and start over.

I just feel sad...and defeated. I really dont think there is anything else I can do. What she is doing isnt illegal (or at least I dont think it is), just immoral. I will still take the pup...I know I can give her a wonderful forever home and then I will take your advice and cut all ties with her. Maybe, I can just hope that some of what Ive told her will sink in and impact her.

Thank you all for opening my eyes and making me see that Im not helping, just enabling. I know we hear harsh words sometimes that we dont want to hear but need to hear.

FlDebra · 04-11-2011, 08:09 AM

Parts of your story are just hitting me.......so Bevo is your male, the father of the blue born puppy and he is still not neutered? It is pretty difficult to try to talk her into spaying her female when she is done nursing when you have not neutered your male yet. I don't think you should wait until the little puppy is old enough to neuter them together! Things happen and you are talking several months down the road!

KendraE · 04-11-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Parts of your story are just hitting me.......so Bevo is your male, the father of the blue born puppy and he is still not neutered? It is pretty difficult to try to talk her into spaying her female when she is done nursing when you have not neutered your male yet. I don't think you should wait until the little puppy is old enough to neuter them together! Things happen and you are talking several months down the road!

He IS going to be neutered. Im not putting it off by any means. He is an indoor dog. The only way he could breed again would be if we purposely made it happen, AND I WOULD NEVER DO THAT! My thinking was to have them neutered together, and if I needed to take time away to be with them soley for a couple of days I could.

Belladonna1 · 04-11-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Parts of your story are just hitting me.......so Bevo is your male, the father of the blue born puppy and he is still not neutered? It is pretty difficult to try to talk her into spaying her female when she is done nursing when you have not neutered your male yet. I don't think you should wait until the little puppy is old enough to neuter them together! Things happen and you are talking several months down the road!

FLDEBRAS right how can you tell her to go spay her pets when you have not done the same, Theres no reason to have the pup and dad done together, And since you know no matter how hard you try to convince her to change her ways she will not, so what are you doing? You name of 5 sets of litters in your last post thats not a begininer in my book, Infact If the mommma of mac had him 7 weeks ago and this momma is due in three weeks well thats two mommas pregnant back to back with you in her ear crying to her to change her ways, I think all of our points are Yes we know your trying to do whats right, and yes you care, But your talking to a brick wall who in the end is not going to change as you stated your self, In the long run you will be the one hurt,and maybe even enableing this breeder unknowingly.

Belladonna1 · 04-11-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendraE

He IS going to be neutered. Im not putting it off by any means. He is an indoor dog. The only way he could breed again would be if we purposely made it happen, AND I WOULD NEVER DO THAT! My thinking was to have them neutered together, and if I needed to take time away to be with them soley for a couple of days I could.

Dont you have to unaltered females there with you now? Things do happen and the pups momma could go in to heat again soon,

KendraE · 04-11-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belladonna1

Dont you have to unaltered females there with you now? Things do happen and the pups momma could go in to heat again soon,

Yes, Macs mother is there. I keep her and Mac seperate from Bevo when we are not home. She should not be coming back into heat until around June....and she will no longer be with us then. She will hopefully be spayed before then anyways. But Mac is not a big food eater and is still mainly nursing. There are no other females. The pregnant dog is currently with her owner. I am not that irresponsible or ignorant...He wont be bred again, period.

Belladonna1 · 04-11-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendraE

Yes, Macs mother is there. I keep her and Mac seperate from Bevo when we are not home. She should not be coming back into heat until around June....and she will no longer be with us then. She will hopefully be spayed before then anyways. But Mac is not a big food eater and is still mainly nursing. There are no other females. The pregnant dog is currently with her owner. I am not that irresponsible or ignorant...He wont be bred again, period.

Iam confused the momma pregnant that this hole threads been about is with the owner?
But yes If the momma of mac is not fixed and your male is not fixed its best the after macs momma is finished nurseing she go elase where or be fixed, because i had two not fixed and even thou I tried my hardest to keep them apart it happend, and also as my female was not back in heat but my male still tried to mount her many time while she was nurseing her pups, I was so nurves something would happen again I took my male to be fixed, No one thinks your ignorant. I just think you have a really big heart, you love animals, your trying to save these pets from a bad sistuation there in at the owners home locked in cages, But I also think your hearts getting in the way of your better judgment and your confused as to whats right and whats wrong, I will tell you that everyones post EVEN MINE are just opions and you should do what you feel is best, As you are the one who is in the mess not us, But you did come to YT for advise and were giving you the opions and advise as if it were us dealing with this, After reading many of your post its clear you mean no harm but theres a thin line in educating this breeder and enabeling her actions, What ever you decided to do It has to be what you what. And help and support is here for you, but we wont enable this breeder. I wish you nothing but the best and hope it works the way your so dearly praying and fighting to get. GOD BLESS YOU

manolos mom · 04-11-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KendraE

Yes, Macs mother is there. I keep her and Mac seperate from Bevo when we are not home. She should not be coming back into heat until around June....and she will no longer be with us then. She will hopefully be spayed before then anyways. But Mac is not a big food eater and is still mainly nursing. There are no other females. The pregnant dog is currently with her owner. I am not that irresponsible or ignorant...He wont be bred again, period.

Mac should be weaned by now. You should start seperating him from her during the day and only keeping them together at night. Then slowly cut that back. I'm sorry to hear that Macs mother will be returned. Im sure she now has felt freedom for the first time in her life only to be sent back to the breeder and put back in a cage. You guys really need to think about what you are doing to these dogs.

manolos mom · 04-11-2011, 09:14 AM

Feed Mac dry kibble small bites mixed with a little cottage cheese.

Belladonna1 · 04-11-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Mac should be weaned by now. You should start seperating him from her during the day and only keeping them together at night. Then slowly cut that back. I'm sorry to hear that Macs mother will be returned. Im sure she now has felt freedom for the first time in her life only to be sent back to the breeder and put back in a cage. You guys really need to think about what you are doing to these dogs.

Mac just turned 7 weeks old so I dont think he should be completly weaned by now, (others my wean theres sooner then others) my pups are 11 weeks old. They started eatting hole foods at 6 weeks, but I still have one baby who will try to nurse every chance she gets, but does eat dog food, If Macs not eatting any food mostly nurseing then you should seperate momma and Mac a few hours a day so he can learn to eat. It is sad Macs momma got freedom only to be used for nurseing and then caged again, but its not her dog and unless this breeder will hand her over theres not much she can do about that but thats another one of those legal concerns that has been brought up.

Woogie Man · 04-11-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cally930

WOW!!! Really?

Kendra and I have communicated since that post and really...the thread has moved beyond that since then.

manolos mom · 04-11-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Kendra and I have communicated since that post and really...the thread has moved beyond that since then.

Well glad to see you are back from fishing.

At the beginning of this Thread, I told Kendra to speak with you or Mary. Glad she is in your hands now. I am sure you will give her sound advise....Lissette

04-11-2011, 07:48 AM	#94
KendraE Hook Em! Bevo & Mack Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 3,752	Wow...yes, this is all very overwhelming. Let me answer a few of your questions...... First off, everyone keeps asking if Mac, Bevo and Macs mother have been spayed/neutered. Mac is 7 weeks old today, but he will be when he is old enough. He is still nursing, so no, the momma dog hasnt been fixed yet either. Her owner has promised to do this, but I am actaully going to offer to take her myself to ensure that it is done. YES, we are going to have BOTH boys neutered. I was going to wait and let them have a father/son neutering date together! I again, only bred Bevo for a pup. I know what an irresponsible thing it was to do now. I have learned alot from YT. But, we love little Mac so very much, and I think God had a play in him being the only pup in the litter. I believe the "breeder" has 4 or 5 female yorkies of breeding age. I dont think she has had alot of litters. I know Mac was that females first and hopefully last. The female that is pregnant right now is also her first. The female that has the two pups right now, I think she told me it was her 3rd?? And the other female(s), Im really not sure. I dont think she has a ton of experience, just wants to breed. And yes, I think its all for money. She is basically just beginning to expand. Thats why I want her to slow down right now and make her think! She hasnt had any horrible experiences yet. And again I say YET...Again, In the very beginning of all this mess, I had no idea she had several dogs. I thought she just had Macs momma. When she offered to let me have a pup out of this litter (because Mac was a blue), I ceratinly didnt jump on it. As I have previously said, the only reason we ever bred Bevo was to have a pup for my daughter who is 15. (again, i know I should not have done this, but did) She has been wanting a female yorkie for a long while. I told her after Mac was born, we would take our time and look for a good, reputable breeder to find her a baby girl in the future. We were in no hurry. But here is a yorkie being handed to me....a yorkie that God only knows where it will end up. I ultamately have decided to take it. And yes, it will be fixed. Bringing the female to my home was my idea. But, let me explain why..... Mac and his mother came to my home when he was a few days old. The breeder was having some remodeling done and was afraid the noise was upsetting the female and she would hurt Mac. What was supposed to be a few days of her staying with us, has turned into 6 1/2 weeks. I kept her by choice. Mac has thrived...I wonder how different his spunky, loving, personality would be if he had beed raised in a cage? He runs and plays...he has learned to pull himself up the doggy stairs to the couch and patters up our bodies to nuzzle himself in our necks. Would he even be the same puppy? I shudder at the thought of him being caged up. So, this female....things have worked out so well with Mac that I thought I could do a better job with her and her pups. I guess because I know they would be loved while here. I know I wont lock them up their first few months on this world. The pup we would keep would be raised in our home like Mac. They could stay longer with their mother. And it would give me more time that I would HAVE to be in communication with this breeder. It would give me a reason to keep talking to her. Ultamately, when I finally have to send Macs momma home, I will have no excuse anymore to talk with her. To tell her the good, bad and ugly of breeding. You all are right....I am really actually changing nothing. All this will do is give the breeder a vacation from caring for the litter. Will she breed the momma again, most likely. Can I stop her...no, but I can try. Can I forcibly keep the pups till they are 12 weeks? Maybe if I make her sign a contract. Will that really make a differnce? No..they will still be sold and end up who knows where. So, all I can really do is keep talking...encouraging her to leave breeding to the experts, to not take chances with these babies lives. Maybe if I keep talking, she will eventually hear me. I could offer to buy all her dogs, have them fixed and find them homes, but she would probably just buy more and start over. I just feel sad...and defeated. I really dont think there is anything else I can do. What she is doing isnt illegal (or at least I dont think it is), just immoral. I will still take the pup...I know I can give her a wonderful forever home and then I will take your advice and cut all ties with her. Maybe, I can just hope that some of what Ive told her will sink in and impact her. Thank you all for opening my eyes and making me see that Im not helping, just enabling. I know we hear harsh words sometimes that we dont want to hear but need to hear. __________________ Kendra Bevo and Mack & grandpups Bryleigh and Jaxon

04-11-2011, 08:09 AM	#95
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	Parts of your story are just hitting me.......so Bevo is your male, the father of the blue born puppy and he is still not neutered? It is pretty difficult to try to talk her into spaying her female when she is done nursing when you have not neutered your male yet. I don't think you should wait until the little puppy is old enough to neuter them together! Things happen and you are talking several months down the road! __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

04-11-2011, 09:14 AM	#102
manolos mom Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 7,982	Feed Mac dry kibble small bites mixed with a little cottage cheese. __________________ Ethical Breeders follow and support http://www.ytca.org/

04-11-2011, 07:27 AM	#93
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	Kendra, a point was brought up that reminded me a contract really., really has to be made giving you the right to make any and all decision...ER's happen and you might not be able to contact the breeder asap...s without blame falling back on you. Pups can be lost for many reasons...breeder might insist on you replacing a pup who might accidental die before returned...or an unexplained death can result in you having to pay for an autopsy...just depends on the ethic's of this breeder and how she will react to you in the case of serious vet expenses... I did whelp a potential show litter for a club friend once...4 born alive..2 born without front legs and dead...owner was away for 4 weeks...her first words to me..."I would have liked to have seen them"....BINGO, they were frozen in the garage freeze...I "ain't" no fool! Stud was number one at the time...