yorkie prego

[yorkietweetie]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

All I can say after reading this post is wow!!
I think because the title was yorkie prego it seam cavalier. After reading the complete post I don't think that is what the op is....
I think some member have seen a lot and it has made them very passionate about breeding. But to say not to breed is being hypocritical.
If no one breeds then where did you get your puppy? There are bad breeders... there are good breeders and there will be new breeders. If a person is responsible and careful and takes the time to LEARN they can breed. I did try rescue by the way.. before I Purchased my Yorkie.. did not work..I knew what dog or at least type of dog I wanted to fit my life style and could not find it in rescue or the rescue turned me down because I said I would crate my dog when I was not home.. so if there wasn't breeder I could not have a dog??
The shocker of the recommendation of spaying is not from a "bad" or "angry" person... well at least not in my opinion. I think she made a bad choice of wording and posting ..sorry if that makes you mad.. but it was soooooooooo out of line. So uncalled for and wrong to say. Yes, there may be times when it has to be done.. I can see that.. but not this time for sure.
I admire the members who are helpful.. I know you have helped me. Even the members who are more blunt are really good people.. if they are speaking from their hearts.
OP.... I wish you the best.. hope to hear only good news. Next time you breed you now will know some of the soul questions to ask your self.
Take care

thanks

[yorkietweetie]

i would just like to say thnks to everyone for the helpful information. I no there will be some ppl that are truely against it and i dont have to take it personal. So i just want to say thank you for all the info so far and the additional information i continue to get.

[gemy]

It seems like you are getting some information, what I would like you to consider, if the prebreeding tests have not been done on your breeding pair, that you do what you can to remedy the situation after whelping and before your puppies go home.

Here are some of the tests: the pair is tested for PRA which must be done by an opthamologist and then you will receive a CERF number.

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

Xrays OFA;d for hips and elbows.

BATS done for LS

Some ppl do heart, thryoid and a hyperurocosuria genetic test.

I'm sure prior to breeding that you found out about the health history of the lines, and thus have a good understanding of the incidence of any of the above conditions.

I wish you a safe whelp

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by gemy

It seems like you are getting some information, what I would like you to consider, if the prebreeding tests have not been done on your breeding pair, that you do what you can to remedy the situation after whelping and before your puppies go home.

Here are some of the tests: the pair is tested for PRA which must be done by an opthamologist and then you will receive a CERF number.

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

Xrays OFA;d for hips and elbows.

BATS done for LS

Some ppl do heart, thryoid and a hyperurocosuria genetic test.

I'm sure prior to breeding that you found out about the health history of the lines, and thus have a good understanding of the incidence of any of the above conditions.

I wish you a safe whelp

This seams like logical and great advice.. I would like to ask an off topic question.. sorry op..but maybe the answer will help you too

you said

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

I had my Remy checked.. the vet said no lp all was well. Is that enough or should I go to an othopaedic surgeon to-- I don't have any reasons to think she has lp..

Thanks
Shinja

[RachelandSadie]

just letting you guys know that from the information I had to work with it did not sound like an experienced or responsible breeding and did sound like an accident to me. i am not some kind of crazy abortion freak, in fact I am quite against it. what I failed to mention was that it would depend fully on how far along the pregnancy really was whether to spay or not. if she's not very far at all that's very different than if she's extrememly far and the pups are already forming little bodies. i wouldn't dream of someone wanting to abort even partly developed puppies and what i was talking about was defin. in the very, very beginning stages of conception. i am sorry that you would think i am into late term doggie abortion. and i'm 100% against human abortion, which makes me slightly question why I agree with ANY dog abortion at all, but there lies the part of me that grew up on a farm and still somewhat sees an animal a bit differently than a human. and the other half of me says killing any animal on purpose is WRONG, but if you go by just that then euthanasias are wrong and i'm totally all for a well thought out euthanasia when a dog is in pain and suffering...

you are sparked a great deal of debate in my heart. and i do want to appologize for seeming like I was saying to spay/abort a late term dog's pregnancy for that was not what I intended at all.

I am not cruel as i know that post must have made me sound, i was posting in the heat of the moment where I had just been reading soooo many unplanned and planned yorkie pregnancies that were at the hands of people who knew nothing about whelping and i was posting in the frustrations I was still having from how many pregnant yorkies we have on YT. it breaks my heart to know that these could have been prevented. It's hard when you switch to the rescue and rehab side of things, you see dogs PTS all the time that you can' save or get adopted, and you see starving, sick, dying dogs that no one wants and no one loves. it's painful to experience and makes me really really frustrated with people who are breeding on a whim.

again please accept my apologies for my brash behavior. i'm dealing with a lot of emotions right now and trying to sort them all out into more educational but kindly put posts.

[Lil Sis]

as I said...

The shocker of the recommendation of spaying is not from a "bad" or "angry" person... well at least not in my opinion. I think she made a bad choice of wording -- and I did think it was not the best choice of words.

I felt there was more to the story... and in some cases you would have been right.

I have so much respect for you because you explained your statment and the emotions behind it.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

This seams like logical and great advice.. I would like to ask an off topic question.. sorry op..but maybe the answer will help you too

you said

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

I had my Remy checked.. the vet said no lp all was well. Is that enough or should I go to an othopaedic surgeon to-- I don't have any reasons to think she has lp..

Thanks
Shinja

The presence of mild LP is usually easily assessed by a good general vet. For certification of clear knees an orthopaedic surgeon must assess, as this is their specialty. But if you trust your vet and their experience, and they say Remy's knees are good, they most likely are.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

This is totally out of line. She has been in contact with her vet and is planning to take her in for a sonogram. Looks to me like she is taking the right steps.

No one was born knowing how to whelp puppies. Everyone had to start with their first litter and even experienced breeders lose Dams and puppies.

I agree that spaying this pregnant yorkie would not be recommended just because the owner was remiss in learning about breeding/whelping BEFORE her dogs mated. There is still time for a crash course and with careful liaison with the vet and hopefully finding a mentor, this could all have a good outcome.

Still there are SO many questions that are not answered and I worry for the answers. Are the dam and sire breeding quality? What sizes, ages, and health histories? Are they truly the best examples of the breed to be perpetuated? What are the circumstances of the breeding program? Curiosity? Making money? Or really trying to breed a better yorkie and make sure the qualities laid out in the breed standards are carried forward?

Here is one of the best sources online for info (besides Yorkietalk that is) Dog Breeding and Canine Reproduction by Debbie Jensen. Dog Breeding and Whelping guide for dog breeders. The video she sells would be a good investment but definately read all of the free info she has immediately. I would contact your nearest dog fanciers club or go to ytca.org and use their breeder referral function to find a yorkie breeder near you. Then I would beg to learn under their tutelege. If you found the breeder of your dogs knowledgable and ethical, you might try starting there. Finding someone who actually has a litter that they might let you witness being born would be a great help for you! But you can prepare yourself to help your girl by reading too. Read everything you can get your hands on. You owe it to your girl to be thoroughly prepared. They are not like a beagle or a lab -- they have been bred so small, many thing can and do go wrong. They need our help more often than not. The danger to the dam does not stop on delivery day either. You have to watch her very carefully afterwards. Many things to learn in a very short time. Good luck! Don't hesitate to ask you find a question about something you have read or experienced. Many good minds here to help!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

just letting you guys know that from the information I had to work with it did not sound like an experienced or responsible breeding and did sound like an accident to me. i am not some kind of crazy abortion freak, in fact I am quite against it. what I failed to mention was that it would depend fully on how far along the pregnancy really was whether to spay or not. if she's not very far at all that's very different than if she's extrememly far and the pups are already forming little bodies. i wouldn't dream of someone wanting to abort even partly developed puppies and what i was talking about was defin. in the very, very beginning stages of conception. i am sorry that you would think i am into late term doggie abortion. and i'm 100% against human abortion, which makes me slightly question why I agree with ANY dog abortion at all, but there lies the part of me that grew up on a farm and still somewhat sees an animal a bit differently than a human. and the other half of me says killing any animal on purpose is WRONG, but if you go by just that then euthanasias are wrong and i'm totally all for a well thought out euthanasia when a dog is in pain and suffering...

you are sparked a great deal of debate in my heart. and i do want to appologize for seeming like I was saying to spay/abort a late term dog's pregnancy for that was not what I intended at all.

I am not cruel as i know that post must have made me sound, i was posting in the heat of the moment where I had just been reading soooo many unplanned and planned yorkie pregnancies that were at the hands of people who knew nothing about whelping and i was posting in the frustrations I was still having from how many pregnant yorkies we have on YT. it breaks my heart to know that these could have been prevented. It's hard when you switch to the rescue and rehab side of things, you see dogs PTS all the time that you can' save or get adopted, and you see starving, sick, dying dogs that no one wants and no one loves. it's painful to experience and makes me really really frustrated with people who are breeding on a whim.

again please accept my apologies for my brash behavior. i'm dealing with a lot of emotions right now and trying to sort them all out into more educational but kindly put posts.

Rachel -- although I disagreed with your previous advice, I do understand you gave it with a good heart. You are very passionate about people who breed without any forethought or advance preparation. So am I. I think in this case, the OP can do some speed studying and stay in close contact with her vet, and even hopefully find a mentor in time to save this situation (and hopefully all the precious lives involved). The order was not right, but we have to be careful and not have such a knee-jerk reaction that we actually destroy lives unnecessarily either.

Sometimes after so many emotionally charged situations, it does make a long-time member here a little over-wrought and words do not come out quite as we intend. I understand the frustration and have had to take breaks in the past to cool off a little and help myself focus on all the things being done right instead of the almost callous disregard some show for their pets. Keep caring as you do but a little restraint is okay too. (Listen to me -- the one who has not shown much restraint herself! Easier said than done sometimes. ).

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by gemy

The presence of mild LP is usually easily assessed by a good general vet. For certification of clear knees an orthopaedic surgeon must assess, as this is their specialty. But if you trust your vet and their experience, and they say Remy's knees are good, they most likely are.

Although I would want to have my dog seen by a specialist if they were found to have anything other than no or very mild lp by my regular vet, I do not know of a requirement to have them see an orthopaedic surgeon for certification of clear knees. As far as I know, a regular vet can evaluate and submit the application to OFA, who then makes the determination to certify or not. Is that what you meant -- that at OFA an ortho surgeon would make the final call? If I am wrong, just point me in the direction I need to update myself. I have been going by what I read on offa.org and their application forms. TIA.

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Although I would want to have my dog seen by a specialist if they were found to have anything other than no or very mild lp by my regular vet, I do not know of a requirement to have them see an orthopaedic surgeon for certification of clear knees. As far as I know, a regular vet can evaluate and submit the application to OFA, who then makes the determination to certify or not. Is that what you meant -- that at OFA an ortho surgeon would make the final call? If I am wrong, just point me in the direction I need to update myself. I have been going by what I read on offa.org and their application forms. TIA.

Originally Posted by Lil Sis

This seams like logical and great advice.. I would like to ask an off topic question.. sorry op..but maybe the answer will help you too

you said

LP if present should be assessed and graded by an othopaedic surgeon

I had my Remy checked.. the vet said no lp all was well. Is that enough or should I go to an othopaedic surgeon to-- I don't have any reasons to think she has lp..

Thanks
Shinja

Originally Posted by gemy

The presence of mild LP is usually easily assessed by a good general vet. For certification of clear knees an orthopaedic surgeon must assess, as this is their specialty. But if you trust your vet and their experience, and they say Remy's knees are good, they most likely are.

I think she was replying to me on my question about lp. Remy does not have any signs of lp.. but I did ask the vet on our first visit and he said she was fine. If I trust my vet that is enough - of course I would go farther if she had any signs.

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by yorkietweetie

hello everyone, i am new to this site and have two wonderful yorkies. i believe my female yorkie maybe prego, but not sure what the signs are, I have google a lot and got some info, and also have an appt with the vet next week but if any one has info the can share i would greatly appreciate.

They began to mate back on the 14th or 15th of February. so she is probably about 3 wks into the pregnancy if she is really prego.

Thanks in advance for any info.

She is probably pregnant and today would be her 26th day. They begin to show at about 30 days. I started day 1 on the 14 of Feb. Your puppies should be due anytime after 59 days. Puppies born before 59 days may have not have had time to appropriately mature the lungs. Most yorkie puppies are born between the 60th ( 4/18) and 63rd (4/21) days. I have some info I can email you if you will send an email to mbowens@cfl.rr.com . I have delivered lots of dogs over the years and I am a retired middle school science teacher. Good Luck, Mary

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I agree that spaying this pregnant yorkie would not be recommended just because the owner was remiss in learning about breeding/whelping BEFORE her dogs mated. There is still time for a crash course and with careful liaison with the vet and hopefully finding a mentor, this could all have a good outcome.

Still there are SO many questions that are not answered and I worry for the answers. Are the dam and sire breeding quality? What sizes, ages, and health histories? Are they truly the best examples of the breed to be perpetuated? What are the circumstances of the breeding program? Curiosity? Making money? Or really trying to breed a better yorkie and make sure the qualities laid out in the breed standards are carried forward?

Here is one of the best sources online for info (besides Yorkietalk that is) Dog Breeding and Canine Reproduction by Debbie Jensen. Dog Breeding and Whelping guide for dog breeders. The video she sells would be a good investment but definately read all of the free info she has immediately. I would contact your nearest dog fanciers club or go to ytca.org and use their breeder referral function to find a yorkie breeder near you. Then I would beg to learn under their tutelege. If you found the breeder of your dogs knowledgable and ethical, you might try starting there. Finding someone who actually has a litter that they might let you witness being born would be a great help for you! But you can prepare yourself to help your girl by reading too. Read everything you can get your hands on. You owe it to your girl to be thoroughly prepared. They are not like a beagle or a lab -- they have been bred so small, many thing can and do go wrong. They need our help more often than not. The danger to the dam does not stop on delivery day either. You have to watch her very carefully afterwards. Many things to learn in a very short time. Good luck! Don't hesitate to ask you find a question about something you have read or experienced. Many good minds here to help!

I use the temp chart for the final weeks and she has lots of information about the developmental stage of the puppy as it matures. Debra's advice is right on! The only thing outside of getting the help of your vet and an experienced mentor would be to read everything you can get your hands on. Yes some of it may be bogus but lots or research and reading makes you more informed and a critical thinker. Here is my phone number and email if you have questions and please read and start hammering us with questions so we can help you do this successfully. One thing we all agree on is that we want mom and puppies healthy, happy and safe. Debra is wonderful and demonstrates responsible and knowledge based information. Many of the long timers here really know their stuff and will go out of their way to help you on your path. My email and phone is mbowens@cfl.rr.com and 321 254 9765. We will look out for your questions and work with you. Take care, Mary

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by yorkietweetie

i would just like to say thnks to everyone for the helpful information. I no there will be some ppl that are truely against it and i dont have to take it personal. So i just want to say thank you for all the info so far and the additional information i continue to get.

If you will send me your email, I have some documents about the diet for little momma. I have it on word docs and can not attach them to this type of forum format ( at least I don't know how). You can use the info and use it to generate information from YT. There is lots to know and the more info you have the better you can prepare momma, get environment for whelping ready and prepare for nursery. You have a huge YT forum of experts that will gladly help. The info will just give you another tool to get started with. Mary at mbowens@cfl.rr.com

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by chachi

I wouldnt have advised spaying in this case but I think soul searching when it comes to bringing lives into this world where we have a pet overpopulation problem should be before, during and after. Its serious and it just seems some breed willy nilly and encourage others to do the same like them