question of dog cost

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by crete456

You have no idea what your talking about...by your reply "I'll type slow" just shows what type of person you are...I'll pay 10,000 for a Champion so I can charge $10,000...Justify your price...I challenge all of you so called breeders!!!!...for all in this forum to see...I gave someone advice...If you look at my first response...yet no one has said that that's not what your suppose to do...It is what your suppose to do...You go and get your so called Champion pup from your so called Champion breeder...I know of many people who have pups rescued from a shelter and have lived long healthy lives...or maybe was it the reporting your income to the IRS!!!!!sorry soldier boy...U lose

I don't think anyone owes an explanation to you whether or not our "income" is filed with the IRS. Are you an IRS agent? But, I will tell you that most exhibitor/breeders are an open book. They are in the limelight, so they are an open book to the IRS.

You aren't buying a dog from me (I wouldn't sell you one), so I don't have to justify my price to you or even tell you what it is. I have no one to answer to but, my Maker, myself and my clients.

How dare you disrespect a man that fought for our country, fought to make you safe. But, I suppose that shouldn't surprise me with what you've revealed about ethics and integrity.

If nothing else this thread will serve as an educational tool for those that really want to learn the correct way. Not just breeding dogs to make money.

[crete456]

Cavalier advice?...I have bred and showed...And have learned from some of the best...one being 60 years of breeding experience...one being at Westminster...I challenge your qualifications against mine anyday...Where did you get your Master's in genetics?...So none of you pups have ever been diseased because you isolated all its markers, WOW!!!...I produced a so called boxer "CHAMPION" from a pup I found in the newspaper in 99...my sister produced three so called "CHAMPION"s Salukies and paid no more than $500 for them...whelped many litters and sold pups for cost...no profit...because that is the right thing to do...You breed for the love of the breed and not to make a profit...so others can enjoy...give and it shall be given...what is more rewarding...sell a pup to a not so fotunate family so that they won't have to absorb an un healthy pups costs...or sell to someone that $1600 is a drop in the bucket who only cares of the label you placed upon this pup...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by crete456

Well get ready to sell a kidney to purchase a puppy...I was at a dog show recently in Pennsylvania and ask a show breeder what a PET quality pup would go for...remind you PET quality...$1600...but for people that responded to this post thats a drop in the bucket...where I live people are just getting by and struggling to put food on the table...unless you sell show pups that is...and I wonder if all that income is claimed on their 1040's...I know a boxer breeder who has produced many champions and asks tens of thousands of dollars for a show quality pup...if I'm spending that much the pup better do the laundry, drive me to work, cut the grass,etc.,etc,...do yourself a favor...see, put a label on a pup...(CHAMPION BLOOD LINES) and people will sell there 1st born...read my first response and you can produce your own Champion...showing is a LOT of POLITICS...breeders get together and stack the deck...any breeder knows what I mean...I've bred and shown boxers...theres no guarantee a pup from a show breeder will be healthy it's entire life...see if you can get a lifetime guarantee from a breeder...

Oh boy 6 posts on here. Since April interesting and it is interesting because you come out so strongly from the "sidelines". Give me a break, do you truly believe a newspaper ad pup is going to give you your first Champion. Let me remind you, that showing is not about what "could" be finished but what "should" be finished. The great breeders bring to that ring what Should be finished. They have choices, and those ethical ones, go into that ring with what should be finished.

Umm care to share your Kennel name where you bred your boxers? Let us know so we can look up that history. Let us have the info to take your comments in perspective. Oh yes and don't the boxers have a lot of health concerns. Just where were you on testing of your breeding stock for those?

Sure I agree with your advice to the OP. Study, research the breed, go to shows meet the breeders study the standards. What is not to like about this advice? And fyi, yes there are health clinics, but guess what, not consistently all over the country, for easier and cheaper access to those pre breeding tests. In fact I live in Canada in one of the most populous provinces, and since the recession there are NO health clinics offered at shows.

Breeders get together and stack the deck??? I laugh in derision. At the most we try to build majors. There is no guarantee our dog will win, but hopefully someone will win and secure a major. You put three people into a room, and yes there is always politics.

There is quite simply no cheap way to breed, unless you sacrifice quality. By quality I mean all the requisite health checks, the studying, the purchasing of show breed quality pups, the showing of same, the studying of pedigrees, the learning of genetics.

I bow down to all the great Yorkie breeders here. Sincerely, for you are protecting the breed I love. Yours is an awesome task.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by crete456

You have no idea what your talking about...by your reply "I'll type slow" just shows what type of person you are...I'll pay 10,000 for a Champion so I can charge $10,000...Justify your price...I challenge all of you so called breeders!!!!...for all in this forum to see...I gave someone advice...If you look at my first response...yet no one has said that that's not what your suppose to do...It is what your suppose to do...You go and get your so called Champion pup from your so called Champion breeder...I know of many people who have pups rescued from a shelter and have lived long healthy lives...or maybe was it the reporting your income to the IRS!!!!!sorry soldier boy...U lose

You are getting pretty disrespecful and I don't appreciate it. I'm a fellow veteran and will stick up for a Marine anytime! He is trying to use an analogy or two to explain to you that it takes more than a little study and sorting through a few pups to become an expert breeder.

I am not sure what price you think is fair for a quality Yorkshire Terrier, but I think most people here will tell you $1000-$2000 is a normal price range, depending on where you live. I am in a very low income area, but quality yorkies still go for $1500. That is what I just paid for my last girl. I had feelers out for a year on what in particular I was looking for. But when I bought her, I also bought a lifetime of conseling and mentorship with my breeder. She enthusiastically shares her knowledge and will be there any time I need her. Over the years I have met and talked with her numerous times. She is always there with answers to my questions.

As far as not reporting income -- you may find that with your BYB but I think the quality AKC breeders are going to report it as they fill out so much paperwork, the paper trail would get them if they did not report it. You have to keep a record of every pup you sell, who to and for how much.

You sure have a negative outlook on the quality Yorkshire Terrier Breeding community. So, what about the newspaper selling breeder selling for so much less, tells you they have quality? Did they test their dam and sire for STDs, BAT? Were they OFA, CERF certified? What is the health history of their parents, grandparents and more importantly all of the litters from the last couple of generations? Do they have those records? Can they give you a reference who has had their pups in healthy condition for years? What does their health guarantee say? Are you required to give up the pup in order to take advantage of the guarantee if a hereditary disease pops up? You scoffed at a life-time guarantee -- but I have one for hereditary diseases. Now how about the puppy -- you say it looks like a quality pup -- has it had its first shots? Did you get a health certificate? Did you get the initial vet records, showing worming and vaccines and check with the vet for a reference for this breeder? How old is the pup and at what age was the breeder letting them go? These are just some of the things you need to check with a breeder. Most BYBs won't make it through this screening!

I always figured what difference does it really make if you pay $500 or $1500 for this puppy today. When you total up what the lifetime cost of the pup will be that difference of a thousand dollars is not really going to seem like that much. They become part of the family -- and who would really deny a family member for an extra $1000? I am not wealthy. I am a retired Navy Senior Chief. But I don't expect things of value to sell cheaply. I waited for Yorkies and feel like I got quality. So, I had to pay a little more -- they have all been healthy saving me $$$$ in vet bills. So many wind up taking new pups to the vet many times to rid them of parasites, viruses and the like. I have never had those problems. I think I got the bargain.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by crete456

Cavalier advice?...I have bred and showed...And have learned from some of the best...one being 60 years of breeding experience...one being at Westminster...I challenge your qualifications against mine anyday...Where did you get your Master's in genetics?...So none of you pups have ever been diseased because you isolated all its markers, WOW!!!...I produced a so called boxer "CHAMPION" from a pup I found in the newspaper in 99...my sister produced three so called "CHAMPION"s Salukies and paid no more than $500 for them...whelped many litters and sold pups for cost...no profit...because that is the right thing to do...You breed for the love of the breed and not to make a profit...so others can enjoy...give and it shall be given...what is more rewarding...sell a pup to a not so fotunate family so that they won't have to absorb an un healthy pups costs...or sell to someone that $1600 is a drop in the bucket who only cares of the label you placed upon this pup...

Let's me say this again, I don't breed to fulfill a pet market. And again, I only have to answer to my Maker, myself and clients. So, I'll not answer to what I do on a public forum. But, for those that know me, know what I'm about.

It's sad that what you put forth as information is not the norm. So, you are only encouraging BYBers in their quest for a quick fix into the breeding arena.

By the way I was an RN. And will offer that, I did study genetics....It was one of the many things my mentor required of me before allowing me to have one of her dogs. And yes, she's had dogs in Westminster too. Some of the top winning dogs. Oh! In answer to your question, no I haven't produced a dog with disease or afflictionn, that's the benefit of starting with a good foundation.

[crete456]

My boxers were tested for Hip/Elbow Dysplasia...Aortic Valve...AS---SAS...Cardiomyopathy1...and yes there are clinics...in Dec...I'll be taking my bitch for CERF, Patellar Lux., etc. four test for about $300...and she is not AKC registered...and if I was breeding her I would not be passing on this to a purchaser...I would put her up to your pups anyday...I do my research...I did not disrespect a man of the military...he said...read the post..I WILL TYPE SLOWLY...that's disrespect...I would have to get approval from my kennel mentor about mentioning ...and I am a tax return preparer...have yet to meet anyone whom claims litter as income...I GAVE SOMEONE GREAT ADVICE ABOUT THE PROSPECT ON BREEDING AND PURCHASING A PUP...DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND GO TO DOGS SHOW FIRST AND FORMOST...I STAND BY THAT!!!!!!!...then the high and almighty jumped all over me...I am willing to come to your club and bring proof if you would have it...You don't need to be worried about me purchasing a pup from you...you know that I wouldn't...I'll leave that to the doctor, lawyer, etc....that can afford your pups

[FlDebra]

I wanted to write once more to our newfound critic. I want to assure you that selling for $1500 is not making money off the pups IF you do it right.

When you total the vet visit, physical exam for bone structure and stds, blood tests for STDs, BAT, OFA and CERF certifications all done on BOTH the dam and sire prior to the mating, then the things you need to buy for whelping, all sorts of books, feeding, and housing of the mom and pups. I bought bottles, syringes, formula, goat's milk, hemostats, a container I made into a whelping box, a heating pad, heating lamp, a play pen, a play yard, lots of blankets, towels and cloths for the delivery, Nutrical drops and gel for puppies, calcium supplement for mom, I paid for a vet office visit when the pups were born, bringing in mom and pups, then day 3 I had to bring in the puppies for tail doc and dew claw removal more vet $$, another vet visit for mom when her calcium level dropped, lots of puppy food, puppy vaccines at 8 & 12 weeks, toys, volumes of puppy pads! I had 4 pups and they all went to family and friends. Then there were the Health certificates from the vet, registration papers for the litter. I was in the hole BIG TIME! Not to mention two full years of studying, reading everything I could get my hands on, taking my dogs to other breeders to see what they thought of their conformation, watching another litter being born, talking to everyone who would give me their opinions, ensuring my girl and boy had the best of everything so they would be more than healthy before they bred and I would be knowledgable as I could be when they needed me. So in the hole but I could not have been happier! I see all of those pups often! They are thriving!

So, second litter I ought to make money right -- WRONG! I did get to reuse some of the things I bought before, but I had all the vet bills over again and this time......day three brought more than docking the tails and removing dew claws from the pups. Mom was deathly ill. I was in contact with the vet's office each day. Told them something was not right, but there was no serious symptom, no fever yet. So, I got an appointment for the next day. She just went bad so very fast. I got her to the vet an hour or so early for her appt and said "someone has to see her now!" They finally took her back and worked on her for quite some time but she did not make it. So there I was with 5 newborn pups depending on me for every two hour feeding and I had lost the sweetest girl I had ever had. I felt so very guilty for even breeding her in the first place. If I had just spayed her as a pup, she would be with me today. But no time to dwell, I had pups to raise. If I got a quarter an hour for all the time I spent with those pups ensuring they had more than enough attention (I owed it to their momma) then I would have made megabucks! But I didn't -- I gave away 2 of the pups to family again, and sold 3. I sold them for less than I paid for their parents, but that was only because of my lack of experience. I figured I was not offering the years of experience and history that my breeder had offered me. She had been working on her line for over 20 years. Big difference. You pay for the knowlege and work the breeder has done with her line as much as you pay for the individual pup. But -- there is no way my selling those pups came anywhere close to my expenses! Especially when you figure I lost my girl! That was an irreplaceable loss in my heart.

If you can read all that and still think a good, experienced breeder who has put her heart and soul into her line, should not be able to ask $1500 for her pups, I do not understand you and maybe you just came here to stir the pot???? Not sure why the chip on your proverbial shoulder but settle down, sit back and read the experiences of some of these fine breeders and you could learn a lot! I know I have over the years and I still learning all the time. I learned I don't have it in me to be a breeder but I am so thankful others will do it so I can always have yorkies in my family!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I wanted to write once more to our newfound critic. I want to assure you that selling for $1500 is not making money off the pups IF you do it right.

When you total the vet visit, physical exam for bone structure and stds, blood tests for STDs, BAT, OFA and CERF certifications all done on BOTH the dam and sire prior to the mating, then the things you need to buy for whelping, all sorts of books, feeding, and housing of the mom and pups. I bought bottles, syringes, formula, goat's milk, hemostats, a container I made into a whelping box, a heating pad, heating lamp, a play pen, a play yard, lots of blankets, towels and cloths for the delivery, Nutrical drops and gel for puppies, calcium supplement for mom, I paid for a vet office visit when the pups were born, bringing in mom and pups, then day 3 I had to bring in the puppies for tail doc and dew claw removal more vet $$, another vet visit for mom when her calcium level dropped, lots of puppy food, puppy vaccines at 8 & 12 weeks, toys, volumes of puppy pads! I had 4 pups and they all went to family and friends. Then there were the Health certificates from the vet, registration papers for the litter. I was in the hole BIG TIME! Not to mention two full years of studying, reading everything I could get my hands on, taking my dogs to other breeders to see what they thought of their conformation, watching another litter being born, talking to everyone who would give me their opinions, ensuring my girl and boy had the best of everything so they would be more than healthy before they bred and I would be knowledgable as I could be when they needed me. So in the hole but I could not have been happier! I see all of those pups often! They are thriving!

So, second litter I ought to make money right -- WRONG! I did get to reuse some of the things I bought before, but I had all the vet bills over again and this time......day three brought more than docking the tails and removing dew claws from the pups. Mom was deathly ill. I was in contact with the vet's office each day. Told them something was not right, but there was no serious symptom, no fever yet. So, I got an appointment for the next day. She just went bad so very fast. I got her to the vet an hour or so early for her appt and said "someone has to see her now!" They finally took her back and worked on her for quite some time but she did not make it. So there I was with 5 newborn pups depending on me for every two hour feeding and I had lost the sweetest girl I had ever had. I felt so very guilty for even breeding her in the first place. If I had just spayed her as a pup, she would be with me today. But no time to dwell, I had pups to raise. If I got a quarter an hour for all the time I spent with those pups ensuring they had more than enough attention (I owed it to their momma) then I would have made megabucks! But I didn't -- I gave away 2 of the pups to family again, and sold 3. I sold them for less than I paid for their parents, but that was only because of my lack of experience. I figured I was not offering the years of experience and history that my breeder had offered me. She had been working on her line for over 20 years. Big difference. You pay for the knowlege and work the breeder has done with her line as much as you pay for the individual pup. But -- there is no way my selling those pups came anywhere close to my expenses! Especially when you figure I lost my girl! That was an irreplaceable loss in my heart.

If you can read all that and still think a good, experienced breeder who has put her heart and soul into her line, should not be able to ask $1500 for her pups, I do not understand you and maybe you just came here to stir the pot???? Not sure why the chip on your proverbial shoulder but settle down, sit back and read the experiences of some of these fine breeders and you could learn a lot! I know I have over the years and I still learning all the time. I learned I don't have it in me to be a breeder but I am so thankful others will do it so I can always have yorkies in my family!

Shall we add to that the expenses incurred to Champion the Dam & Sire

Mmmm lets see: Meds needed for the whelp. Ringers, Plasma, IVs, Colostrum, Antibiotics and other countless meds that are needed for that just in case.

And of course sonogram for the dam prior to be bred to insure that her reproductive organs are in shape for breeding and whelping. Oh! x-rays prior to the whelp.

Let's see x-rays on pups to insure knees and hips are ok. Let's not for get Bile Acids and Blood Tests on pups before they go home.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Shall we add to that the expenses incurred to Champion the Dam & Sire

Mmmm lets see: Meds needed for the whelp. Ringers, Plasma, IVs, Colostrum, Antibiotics and other countless meds that are needed for that just in case.

See -- I keep learning every day.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by crete456

Your reply only reinforces what I said in my response...nowhere do you comment that what advice I gave was helpful...only defending breeders...I'll say this...The median household income in the USA is $46,326...whom do you know can afford a puppy for $1000 and up?...that's why theres puppy mills...IMHO this is a major contributor of puppy mills...

Well, being retired on SS we make less than the median household, and we paid more than $1,000 including shipping for Beamer. There were lots of Yorkies in the newspaper for $300-$600. But I wanted a Yorkie from a reputable breeder. We saved and did our diligent research. We have a very healthy little Yorkie. He was from a reputable breeder.

I do not breed Yorkies and have never bred Yorkies. But I have an idea on what goes into breeding. Do you have any idea what costs go into breeding? What extra tests reputable breeders have done on the dogs they breed? (and I do mean reputable breeders not BYB's)

I have always been a firm believer in you get what you pay for in all things. And I believe that is true when buying a Yorkie (or any other breed).

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

See -- I keep learning every day.

And heaven forbid things don't happen to what happened to you and I.....countless vet bills because our dam incurred problems.....how's about another $3,000 to keep your dam alive.

And what it costs extra to hand raise a litter.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by crete456

You have no idea what your talking about...by your reply "I'll type slow" just shows what type of person you are...I'll pay 10,000 for a Champion so I can charge $10,000...Justify your price...I challenge all of you so called breeders!!!!...for all in this forum to see...I gave someone advice...If you look at my first response...yet no one has said that that's not what your suppose to do...It is what your suppose to do...You go and get your so called Champion pup from your so called Champion breeder...I know of many people who have pups rescued from a shelter and have lived long healthy lives...or maybe was it the reporting your income to the IRS!!!!!sorry soldier boy...U lose

No, it is you that has no idea what you are talking about.
And HOW DARE YOU disrespect a marine! (although he has fought for your right to do so!!!)

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Beamers Mom

Well, being retired on SS we make less than the median household, and we paid more than $1,000 including shipping for Beamer. There were lots of Yorkies in the newspaper for $300-$600. But I wanted a Yorkie from a reputable breeder. We saved and did our diligent research. We have a very healthy little Yorkie. He was from a reputable breeder.

I do not breed Yorkies and have never bred Yorkies. But I have an idea on what goes into breeding. Do you have any idea what costs go into breeding? What extra tests reputable breeders have done on the dogs they breed? (and I do mean reputable breeders not BYB's)

I have always been a firm believer in you get what you pay for in all things. And I believe that is true when buying a Yorkie (or any other breed).

You did this because you wanted your dog to come from a breeder that put every effort into making sure your puppy had a head start in life and brought you many years of happiness and vice a versa.

[crete456]

I understand...but why pass the expense on to the purchaser...I never have and will never...did you hear what you stated...my breeder and that experience...I was nieve...about charging for knowledge!!!...bless you people...you live in a different world that I do...make below the median income yet will be willing to pay thousands of dollars for a pup..I rest my case...struggling to make ends meet yet would pay thousands of dollars for a pup...you just reinforce my posts...do you realise that yorkshire terrier have only been inexsistence for about 150 years ,about 1861 or so...the product of the Paisley, Clydesdale terriers...the genes of these dogs are in all of the yorkies produced today...you have been lead to believing that only certain people can produce quality puppy...

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by crete456

I understand...but why pass the expense on to the purchaser...I never have and will never...did you hear what you stated...my breeder and that experience...I was nieve...about charging for knowledge!!!...bless you people...you live in a different world that I do...make below the median income yet will be willing to pay thousands of dollars for a pup..I rest my case...struggling to make ends meet yet would pay thousands of dollars for a pup...you just reinforce my posts...do you realise that yorkshire terrier have only been inexsistence for about 150 years ,about 1861 or so...the product of the Paisley, Clydesdale terriers...the genes of these dogs are in all of the yorkies produced today...you have been lead to believing that only certain people can produce quality puppy...

Honestly, with that attitude, I wonder why you bother to breed pure breds at all. Why not just throw any two dogs together and give them away in front of wally world for free?

Is anyone else getting the same vibe as a few months back when a particular poster kept insisting that the ONLY place anyone should by a dog was from a pet store? You know, the one who kept cheering for a particular store in TN that just recently got busted on tv for buying from puppy mills.