Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Disney

How is breeding for off colour any different than purposely breeding tiny? Some prefer the look of very small. Still not condone.

Breeding against the standard is not honoring the breed. Anything that deviates from the standard is incorrect to be looked upon as unethical.

Breeding tiny yorkies is more dangerous than standard breeding practices. Disney, anytime you breed you are putting the bitch in jeopardy. Why would you do this for any reason other than to possibly reproduce offspring closer to the standard?

With a tiny, this is not only unobtainable but more life threatening. In addition, what do you expect to produce?

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

That would be the Norwich and Norfolk Terriers and they are a seperate breed, seperate standards and there are other differences just havent' read their standards but have heard the commentors on the dog shows describe the differences other than the ears

Donna

They are separate breeds now...but that wasn't always the case.

"The Norwich and Norfolk Terriers were considered the same breed until 1964 when two different classification were created based on their ears. This separation occurred in England in 1964, but it took until 1979 for the U.S. to separate the breeds."

"Both the Norfolk and Norwich were born in the same litters at the time, and both prick eared and drop eared varieties emerged from the same whelp."

Norfolk Terrier Puppies Breeders Terriers

There are many other examples of a breed where standards were changed and variety classes were granted because breeders preferred a different look, size, color, or coat texture in their respected breeds.

The dachshund is another breed. It has three variety classes for coat.
1. smooth coat
2. wire coat
3. long coat

The beagle allowed breeders a variety class for 2 inch's of height. Both varieties share the same standard except for height.

We already talked about the cocker spaniel in this thread...they have 3 color variety classes. Parti being one of them. Their buffs, blacks, chocolates and roans sure haven't been damaged because of the parti being added to their standard.

Everyone knows the poodle come in three different sizes and are placed in three different show categories. They too have a parti that is AKC registered and can now show thier "multi-colored" poodle with the UKC.

The smooth and rough collie share the same standard except for coat and have their own variety class.

The Pembroke and the Cardigan Welsh corgi's were once the same breed...and were separated because some breeders wanted a docked tail.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head..I am sure their are plenty more.

The breeds listed here who allowed changes to the standard and added variety classes have not suffered because of it. Nor as someone falsely stated earlier in the thread...the original color's or trait were not bred out. Scare tactics are old school and boring. IMO that was a frightened and uneducated statement. The parti gene has been around for many, many years in other breeds, and they still have their original colors showing, still breeding true, and doing quite well.

[Disney]

Originally Posted by Elle

Breeding against the standard is not honoring the breed. Anything that deviates from the standard is incorrect to be looked upon as unethical.

Breeding tiny yorkies is more dangerous than standard breeding practices. Disney, anytime you breed you are putting the bitch in jeopardy. Why would you do this for any reason other than to possibly reproduce offspring closer to the standard?

With a tiny, this is not only unobtainable but more life threatening. In addition, what do you expect to produce?

I don't think I explain right sorry. I meant that how is breeding for one off trait different than another? I don't like breed out of standard ever. Poor example, I apologize.

Bold line I very agree with.

[Elle]

[QUOTE=Brooklynn;

I hope that answers your question.

Donna[/QUOTE]

Donna,

I hope you get that blue you want.

I would love to see it on an Aero head. Everything looks great on an Aero head.

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

And guess what, the owner of the Parquin line(Raymond Antonucci) had Parquin Parti colored yorkies. Fascinating isnt it.

WOW!!!
If I am reading that correctly, didnt he breed full brother to full sister to produce painted pony?

After his death, what became of his parti dogs? Spayed/neutered or bred by the new owners?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Of course I dont know what lines your dogs have but I do know some of the big names do have it in their lines.
There were parti pups born from the sire Ch Hylan Acres Ridin the Storm and a daughter of Ch. Durrers Mighty Obsession.
Durrers Ace High goes back to Finstal Icing and Finstal goes back to Streamglen Shaun, the same line some of the partis come from. HMMM

I find this statement fascinating. Ch Durrers Ace High and Ch.Finstal Royal Icing have offspring all over the world. Alot of them are line bred. Should have doubled up on a few of those parti genes. Where are all the parti dogs in Spain, France, England, Italy, Austrailia, Russia, Scotland, Ireland, Mexico, etc. There would be some mention of them by now. It seems to have only showed up in one parti breeders kennel that somehow got ahold of these lines.
Just wondering....

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Maybe the YTCA does need to change some standards instead of staying close minded. As it stands the Yorkie certainly isn't doing any winning in best in show at Westminster, How long has it been?
IMO Because they dont have that look that just pops, The Partis on the other hand do turn heads.

While the parti "yorkie"color is striking, do you really think a judge at Westminster is only looking at color?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I cannot believe there are still people disputing that the partis are purebred yorkies. I thought we resolved that issue several yars ago.

Histrical dlocment show that the partis have been shoing u since the beginning of docmentation. Joan Goden writes abut them. Wildweir kennels told the AKC that they had way more partis in their line than there were in the Nikko line.

That issue has never been resolved otherwise these threads wouldnt exist. Obviously the YTCA has their doubts.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

WOW!!!
If I am reading that correctly, didnt he breed full brother to full sister to produce painted pony?

After his death, what became of his parti dogs? Spayed/neutered or bred by the new owners?

They were spayed and neutered and petted out. Jaime kept one parti.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

I find this statement fascinating. Ch Durrers Ace High and Ch.Finstal Royal Icing have offspring all over the world. Alot of them are line bred. Should have doubled up on a few of those parti genes. Where are all the parti dogs in Spain, France, England, Italy, Austrailia, Russia, Scotland, Ireland, Mexico, etc. There would be some mention of them by now. It seems to have only showed up in one parti breeders kennel that somehow got ahold of these lines.
Just wondering....

Do you think show breeders would advertise they got a parti from their Champion dogs, I am sure some are still to this day put down.

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

There is one thing I will agree with you too....and that is the health screening!! I'm just as passionate about health as I am the yorkie breed and to me that should go hand in hand

Donna

JMO but this is one of the smartest statments made on this thread

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

That issue has never been resolved otherwise these threads wouldnt exist. Obviously the YTCA has their doubts.

It doesn't mean the YTCA has doubts, it just means they don't want it to happen and they are fighting tooth and nail against it ... Goodness, there are people from the YTCA who have joined Biewer clubs NOT because they have a Biewer, love the Biewer or EVER intend on owning one.. but for the soul purpose to be in the club to do all in their power to PROVE that the Biewer is not a Yorkie.. there are other cases where yorkie breeders "befriend" Biewer breeders so to keep an "eye" on them.. "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer" type of scenerio.

To me, this type of behavior reflects fear. You are not going to be able to legislate the Parti's out of existance. The AKC has proven the Parti is a Yorkshire Terrier.. we are on the way to showing that the Biewer is the same.. We are not going to give up on this and there are more people every day who are becoming enthralled with these dogs.. Instead of bickering on forums and only REACTING.. by changing standards in haste and making unprofessional statements on your websites, don't you think it would be far more productive for the YTCA to sit down and chat.

In a business or in life..if you see something coming your way that you don't particularly like, you can't just slam the door.. cover your ears, shut your eyes and pretend it isn't happening. You have to figure out a solution. This solution may not be exactly as you would like it to be, sometimes change isn't in the beginning, but many times in the end you find that change was actually for the better.

Now, at the beginning of this process there is still time to put rules and guidelines in place.. there is a chance to map out how this can proceed logically, to the benifit of all but most importantly.. to the breed we ALL love. We don't want to see the standard changed for that stunning blue and tan/gold dog .. this is the dog most of us started with.. that we still love.. but we KNOW there is a variation of that dog.. we know what they are and how special they are and we are just as determined to see them get their rightful place in the show ring as you are to keep them out.

This can be done right, or this can just be done.. we are at a point were we can still choose. It would be a shame to miss this opportunity.


Diana

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by kpstoybox

They are separate breeds now...but that wasn't always the case.

"The Norwich and Norfolk Terriers were considered the same breed until 1964 when two different classification were created based on their ears. This separation occurred in England in 1964, but it took until 1979 for the U.S. to separate the breeds."

"Both the Norfolk and Norwich were born in the same litters at the time, and both prick eared and drop eared varieties emerged from the same whelp."

Norfolk Terrier Puppies Breeders Terriers

There are many other examples of a breed where standards were changed and variety classes were granted because breeders preferred a different look, size, color, or coat texture in their respected breeds.

The dachshund is another breed. It has three variety classes for coat.
1. smooth coat
2. wire coat
3. long coat

The beagle allowed breeders a variety class for 2 inch's of height. Both varieties share the same standard except for height.

We already talked about the cocker spaniel in this thread...they have 3 color variety classes. Parti being one of them. Their buffs, blacks, chocolates and roans sure haven't been damaged because of the parti being added to their standard.

Everyone knows the poodle come in three different sizes and are placed in three different show categories. They too have a parti that is AKC registered and can now show thier "multi-colored" poodle with the UKC.

The smooth and rough collie share the same standard except for coat and have their own variety class.

The Pembroke and the Cardigan Welsh corgi's were once the same breed...and were separated because some breeders wanted a docked tail.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head..I am sure their are plenty more.

The breeds listed here who allowed changes to the standard and added variety classes have not suffered because of it. Nor as someone falsely stated earlier in the thread...the original color's or trait were not bred out. Scare tactics are old school and boring. IMO that was a frightened and uneducated statement. The parti gene has been around for many, many years in other breeds, and they still have their original colors showing, still breeding true, and doing quite well.

Some of the breeds you mentioned are a varition of each other. I've had a pembroke and there are differences in the pembroke vs. the cardigan other than the tail. The pembroke is a smaller dog vs. the cardigan and a longer body ect....I love the pembroke over the cardigan and again my preference just as in yorkies. Of course they were one breed at one time but ONCE AGAIN....they are a seperate breed with their own standard.
I read somewhere that AKC is going to not add anymore varities to the breeds that are accepted . I need to find that out. If I heard correctly varities won't be added any longer....so if that's the case the Parti's can't be a variety to the standard yorkies...but again, I have to find that out.
Face it, the YTCA isn't going to accept the Parti's as a variety in my life time and AKC will honor the YTCA's recommendations.

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Elle

Donna,

I hope you get that blue you want.

I would love to see it on an Aero head. Everything looks great on an Aero head.

OH I love the Aero heads LOL...that is my Radar's face like his GGS! CC! I love the Aero lines! There needs improvement in Radar's lines and I'm hoping to achieve that with this nice little bitch that we are going to breed him too within the year! That should be a GREAT breeding!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Some of the breeds you mentioned are a varition of each other. I've had a pembroke and there are differences in the pembroke vs. the cardigan other than the tail. The pembroke is a smaller dog vs. the cardigan and a longer body ect....I love the pembroke over the cardigan and again my preference just as in yorkies. Of course they were one breed at one time but ONCE AGAIN....they are a seperate breed with their own standard.
I read somewhere that AKC is going to not add anymore varities to the breeds that are accepted . I need to find that out. If I heard correctly varities won't be added any longer....so if that's the case the Parti's can't be a variety to the standard yorkies...but again, I have to find that out.
Face it, the YTCA isn't going to accept the Parti's as a variety in my life time and AKC will honor the YTCA's recommendations.

Donna

I read that too Donna, I'll have to check through my Gazettes......