What Not to Say to Your Breeder

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me explain a bit. Breeders take offense when people's first and foremost question is how much? We view it as that is their only concern. Not that one shouldn't be concerned, it is a major purchase. But, most of us that breed to improve the breed, feel that a person's first concern should be about us as a breeder. The health of the dogs and puppies. If we hear the first words out of a potential clients mouth are "how much" we feel they are bargin shopping....

[yorkielady06]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Nope we can't police the world and we can't fix stupid......and be glad that puppy she gets is not one of yours.

You know there's a list of Ripoff breeders, AKC suspension lists. There should be a list for bad buyers that breeders can go to.....I know we screen very carefully, but it would be nice if breeders had such a list.

Yes it would be nice wouldn't it. I bet I could put 10 people on that list today from the top of my head....ok well from my list I have here cause I am getting along in age and do well to remember what I ate for breakfast...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Yes it would be nice wouldn't it. I bet I could put 10 people on that list today from the top of my head....ok well from my list I have here cause I am getting along in age and do well to remember what I ate for breakfast...

Oh well we do wonder why we do what we do. Maybe because we're nuts.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Nope we can't police the world and we can't fix stupid......and be glad that puppy she gets is not one of yours.

You know there's a list of Ripoff breeders, AKC suspension lists. There should be a list for bad buyers that breeders can go to.....I know we screen very carefully, but it would be nice if breeders had such a list.

I've met one or two I'd put on such a list---

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Nope we can't police the world and we can't fix stupid......and be glad that puppy she gets is not one of yours.

You know there's a list of Ripoff breeders, AKC suspension lists. There should be a list for bad buyers that breeders can go to.....I know we screen very carefully, but it would be nice if breeders had such a list.

When I was doing rescue in AZ we did have a database for people we turned down an we shared it with other rescues if they contacted us. We found people learned to give the right answer and then moved on to the next rescue, to the next and someone would finally get lazy or believe what these people said and give them a dog.

It is so difficult to find the perfect homes but I have always said "trust your instincts" and the older I get the more I listen.

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

Oh I have spent many hours educating this person. I did tell her my spay/neuter policy and she just basically acted like if she had the money that I should just sell her a dog... well these are not "dogs" . I think I spent my time talking to a person who is just going to buy a dog from someone else and breed no matter what I say. You just cannot fix stupid I guess and I feel bad for the puppy she does end up purchasing...

For this, I have had people yell at me, people call me a b****, and people who will try to "reason" with me. IF I EVER let a puppy go on full registration it is to someone who I trust completely and know that they will keep in contact with me, and it is on a strict contract. This also full aggravates people. I had one lady who I had spoken to for weeks, phone and email. She was coming to visit the puppy. We had talked many times about how this pup was to be shown if he continued to stay correct (he was 4 months at the time), and there was a contract on this. Also that any offspring of the dog was to go spay/neuter limited registration unless she kept one for herself or one came back to me. All was fine, we had been over it a million times. When she came to visit and possibly pick the puppy up she was an entirely different person. She was short with me, rude, and she kept trying to rush me and had already picked up the puppy, counted out the money, and kept trying to pick up the folder of his paperwork as I was explaining everything in there. When I got to the contract and started reading over it...saying "ok we already talked about this several times but this part is..." she cut me off and grabbed the contract from me, looked over it quickly, and said, "I'm not signing this." She then proceeded to lecture me on how if she was paying "so and so amount of money" for a puppy, that she was darn well going to do whatever she wanted with him. I just stood there for a few minutes listening to her, and finally asked her why she didn't say anything about that earlier when I TOLD her PLENTY of times that there would be a contract with ALL of the things we spoke about if she were going to get the pup. Her very intelligent answer was, "well I didn't think you'd actually make me sign it!" I think my mouth literally dropped open at that point, and I said, "sorry this isn't going to work out" and I reached over and took my puppy out of her arms. I had never touched her money, she had just counted it out and laid it on the table while I was showing her things in his folder. She GRABBED it off the table and stormed out the door and SLAMMED it as hard as she good, flipped me off, and got in her car and drove off.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

For this, I have had people yell at me, people call me a b****, and people who will try to "reason" with me. IF I EVER let a puppy go on full registration it is to someone who I trust completely and know that they will keep in contact with me, and it is on a strict contract. This also full aggravates people. I had one lady who I had spoken to for weeks, phone and email. She was coming to visit the puppy. We had talked many times about how this pup was to be shown if he continued to stay correct (he was 4 months at the time), and there was a contract on this. Also that any offspring of the dog was to go spay/neuter limited registration unless she kept one for herself or one came back to me. All was fine, we had been over it a million times. When she came to visit and possibly pick the puppy up she was an entirely different person. She was short with me, rude, and she kept trying to rush me and had already picked up the puppy, counted out the money, and kept trying to pick up the folder of his paperwork as I was explaining everything in there. When I got to the contract and started reading over it...saying "ok we already talked about this several times but this part is..." she cut me off and grabbed the contract from me, looked over it quickly, and said, "I'm not signing this." She then proceeded to lecture me on how if she was paying "so and so amount of money" for a puppy, that she was darn well going to do whatever she wanted with him. I just stood there for a few minutes listening to her, and finally asked her why she didn't say anything about that earlier when I TOLD her PLENTY of times that there would be a contract with ALL of the things we spoke about if she were going to get the pup. Her very intelligent answer was, "well I didn't think you'd actually make me sign it!" I think my mouth literally dropped open at that point, and I said, "sorry this isn't going to work out" and I reached over and took my puppy out of her arms. I had never touched her money, she had just counted it out and laid it on the table while I was showing her things in his folder. She GRABBED it off the table and stormed out the door and SLAMMED it as hard as she good, flipped me off, and got in her car and drove off.

I love it when you've explained that you only place on a spay/nueter contract and come back with "You just don't want the competition". Now folks what kind of competition am I when I only breed one litter a year and more often than not skip a year.

The mentality that you had with the buyer above, just don't understand, these pups are yours and you are responsible, making sure that they are well taken care of for the rest of their lives.

[yorkielady06]

I am shaking my head on that one. This lady was not far from that. They both left in a "huff" and so be it. I was mostly frustrated with myself for wasting my valuable time with her. I could have been doing poop/pee duty, nail trims, baths, doggie laundry, fetch time, or many other pressing things in this house....

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

For this, I have had people yell at me, people call me a b****, and people who will try to "reason" with me. IF I EVER let a puppy go on full registration it is to someone who I trust completely and know that they will keep in contact with me, and it is on a strict contract. This also full aggravates people. I had one lady who I had spoken to for weeks, phone and email. She was coming to visit the puppy. We had talked many times about how this pup was to be shown if he continued to stay correct (he was 4 months at the time), and there was a contract on this. Also that any offspring of the dog was to go spay/neuter limited registration unless she kept one for herself or one came back to me. All was fine, we had been over it a million times. When she came to visit and possibly pick the puppy up she was an entirely different person. She was short with me, rude, and she kept trying to rush me and had already picked up the puppy, counted out the money, and kept trying to pick up the folder of his paperwork as I was explaining everything in there. When I got to the contract and started reading over it...saying "ok we already talked about this several times but this part is..." she cut me off and grabbed the contract from me, looked over it quickly, and said, "I'm not signing this." She then proceeded to lecture me on how if she was paying "so and so amount of money" for a puppy, that she was darn well going to do whatever she wanted with him. I just stood there for a few minutes listening to her, and finally asked her why she didn't say anything about that earlier when I TOLD her PLENTY of times that there would be a contract with ALL of the things we spoke about if she were going to get the pup. Her very intelligent answer was, "well I didn't think you'd actually make me sign it!" I think my mouth literally dropped open at that point, and I said, "sorry this isn't going to work out" and I reached over and took my puppy out of her arms. I had never touched her money, she had just counted it out and laid it on the table while I was showing her things in his folder. She GRABBED it off the table and stormed out the door and SLAMMED it as hard as she good, flipped me off, and got in her car and drove off.

That was scary! She sounds crazy and foolish. I guess she thought you were desperate for money that is why she put it on the table so you can see it. She thought surely you would not turn down cash in sight...LOL!

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I love it when you've explained that you only place on a spay/nueter contract and come back with "You just don't want the competition". Now folks what kind of competition am I when I only breed one litter a year and more often than not skip a year.

The mentality that you had with the buyer above, just don't understand, these pups are yours and you are responsible, making sure that they are well taken care of for the rest of their lives.

Absolutely, or "so you can breed but I can't?"
Oh sure, why don't I just give away the trust and friendships that I have made to get my dogs and my lines, and hand it over to anyone to let them run with it? Gosh I am just so unreasonable

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

I am shaking my head on that one. This lady was not far from that. They both left in a "huff" and so be it. I was mostly frustrated with myself for wasting my valuable time with her. I could have been doing poop/pee duty, nail trims, baths, doggie laundry, fetch time, or many other pressing things in this house....

So true!

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by Cerise

That was scary! She sounds crazy and foolish. I guess she thought you were desperate for money that is why she put it on the table so you can see it. She thought surely you would not turn down cash in sight...LOL!

That is probably exactly what she thought. If I were just looking for money I certainly wouldn't have spent two weeks going over what I require and what would be in the contract, what was expected of her as far as showing, etc. HOURS and HOURS on the phone and sending long emails to her. If I just wanted the money I would've said "the price is so and so for full registration, let me know if you're interested." End of story. Maybe other breeders spend that much time going over everything and then when the person comes and hands them the money they "forget" about the contract?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

For this, I have had people yell at me, people call me a b****, and people who will try to "reason" with me. IF I EVER let a puppy go on full registration it is to someone who I trust completely and know that they will keep in contact with me, and it is on a strict contract. This also full aggravates people. I had one lady who I had spoken to for weeks, phone and email. She was coming to visit the puppy. We had talked many times about how this pup was to be shown if he continued to stay correct (he was 4 months at the time), and there was a contract on this. Also that any offspring of the dog was to go spay/neuter limited registration unless she kept one for herself or one came back to me. All was fine, we had been over it a million times. When she came to visit and possibly pick the puppy up she was an entirely different person. She was short with me, rude, and she kept trying to rush me and had already picked up the puppy, counted out the money, and kept trying to pick up the folder of his paperwork as I was explaining everything in there. When I got to the contract and started reading over it...saying "ok we already talked about this several times but this part is..." she cut me off and grabbed the contract from me, looked over it quickly, and said, "I'm not signing this." She then proceeded to lecture me on how if she was paying "so and so amount of money" for a puppy, that she was darn well going to do whatever she wanted with him. I just stood there for a few minutes listening to her, and finally asked her why she didn't say anything about that earlier when I TOLD her PLENTY of times that there would be a contract with ALL of the things we spoke about if she were going to get the pup. Her very intelligent answer was, "well I didn't think you'd actually make me sign it!" I think my mouth literally dropped open at that point, and I said, "sorry this isn't going to work out" and I reached over and took my puppy out of her arms. I had never touched her money, she had just counted it out and laid it on the table while I was showing her things in his folder. She GRABBED it off the table and stormed out the door and SLAMMED it as hard as she good, flipped me off, and got in her car and drove off.

What happened to you is why I've only sold one show puppy and to a dear friend, someone I know, and does nothing without running it past me I'm handling the dog.

It's my rule not sell a show puppy unless I'm willing to mentor this person.....that means teaching them everything from the get go.....But, my contract now is so tight, that I have control for 2 generations, the can only be bred to dogs of my approval.

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I love it when you've explained that you only place on a spay/nueter contract and come back with "You just don't want the competition". Now folks what kind of competition am I when I only breed one litter a year and more often than not skip a year.

The mentality that you had with the buyer above, just don't understand, these pups are yours and you are responsible, making sure that they are well taken care of for the rest of their lives.

Oh the competition line, you don't want the competition. For what???? Competition for all the money I make, I wish I could share my losses with a few people. Pet peeve #1. Why is it that people don't believe that there is no money in breeding yorkies properly?

And pet peeve #2, the people that think they are buying a dog and it should be theirs to do whatever they want with it. I am not a store, you can not just come in with your money in hand and walk out with one of my pups to do with as you please. Not just buying a pup but adopting a much loved member of my family. Big difference.

Audrey

[kdreamson]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

Pretty typical phone call for me is this:
Them: "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie, my wife/husband and I are wanting one to love and spoil. We want a pet only. Do yours have full registration papers?"
Me: "My puppies are registered, yes, but I require a spay/neuter contract and they either go on limited registration or I hold the paperwork until I have proof of spay/neuter."
!!!CLICK!!!

Or of course the oh so popular, "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie how much are yours?"
If that's your first question you aren't getting one of mine.

I have also been asked if they can "borrow" one of my puppies for a few days to "see if they like it."

Probably one of my saddest stories though involves someone that lives about 45 minutes away from me. About a year ago my cousin was looking for a Yorkie. I didn't have any available at the time so I was helping her look at and research other puppies/breeders in the area. She found a lady who was rehoming her 4 month old Yorkie female and was asking a reasonable adoption fee. She spoke with the lady on the phone and the story was that she had a 1 year old Yorkie male who she had rescued, and she bought him a "friend" (this little girl pup), but he did not get along with her. She also said that when she went to pick the puppy up from the breeder, she was smaller than she had thought, and that her children (I believe they were ages 3, 5, and 9...but definitely all young) were being too rough for such a small pup. We were sent a photo of the little girl and she was very pretty, we were also sent a pedigree on her and she was actually from quite nice lines. We decided to go and see the little girl, and started on the drive towards her house. She called my cousin about 10 minutes into it and said that something had come up and she wouldn't be able to have us over that night, but that she could meet us halfway with the pup instead. It was a bit of a strange story, and we were certain at this point that the lady must have had something to hide, but nevertheless we met her about half and hour later. She had the little girl with her, same as the pup in the picture, she had all the health records which showed her completely up to date on shots, and she had a more detailed hard copy of her pedigree, and her AKC papers. She also had her children with her, one of which was carrying the puppy, and he had tears in his eyes at the thought of giving her away. My cousin fell in love and ended up taking the pup. She was at a very reasonable low adoption fee and she was given the puppy's food, blanket, and toys in addition to all her paperwork. She took the puppy to the vet the next day and she was in perfect health, and we researched the breeder of the pup who turned out to be reputable. So all was well and my cousin was extremely happy with her decision.

Two months later she was scanning the web and came across and ad for a rehome on a male Yorkie puppy. She noticed that the location was the same as the lady where she got her female rehome. Then she noticed the phone number was the same, and email. We emailed the lady from a different email address to find out the story, and it was EXACTLY the same as what had been told for the first little girl, except obviously this was male pup. Same small adoption fee, same about not getting along with the children and being too small, not getting along with her rescue yorkie, etc. The pedigree was not the same as the female but was another nice pedigree. We were saddened by it, and the next day the ad on the male pup was gone, so we assumed he had been taken.

We put it out of out minds, about 6 more months went by, and I got a phone call one day from an extremely nice sounding lady. I couldn't answer my phone at the time, so she left a long message about how she was searching for the perfect Yorkie baby, etc. She also filled out my adoption questionnaire, gave references, etc. in an email. Her name sounded vaguely familiar to me, but I couldn't place it. I was actually on the way back from a long drive at the time, and I called her back on the road. We talked for about an hour. She explained that this would be her very first Yorkie but that she had done years of research, she had had other small breeds, had a small breed vet, etc. She said she was only looking to buy from a reputable breeder with quality dogs, but that she only wanted a pet, would be willing to sign a neuter contract, and would supply any additional information that I needed. I had one little male available at the time, and I told her about him. She never once asked about the price, only talked about his health, his parents' testing, my health guarantee, etc. She asked all the right questions. She wanted to see a picture of the little boy and I told her that as soon as I got back to my house I would send her a few, and I would also begin checking her references at that point. I asked her for another contact number, because she had only given me a home phone at that point, and she gave me an additional cell number.

Well I got home and something was just bugging me. I read over the answers to her questions and could just not put my finger on it. Then I started my googling. Her email address came back with nothing out of the ordinary, home number nothing strange. However, the cell phone immediately brought up SEVEN ads for Yorkie rehomes, including the little girl that my cousin had adopted, and the little boy we saw after that, and 5 others both before my cousin got hers and after. I could not believe it, it was the SAME lady!! She was using a different name, different house phone, different email, but guess she forgot to change that cell or thought I wouldn't put two and two together. Obviously she did not know that it was my cousin who had the little girl, or that it was me who was with my cousin that day. I never said I was a breeder then, since it was my cousin buying the pup, and she did most of the talking. So the WHOLE conversation she had with me, the entire adoption questionnaire, everything was a lie. I honestly was not sure how to handle the situation, but knew that I had to confront her. I called her back on her home number (which was the original number she gave on my questionnaire with her fake name), and she answered. When she did I asked to speak to "her REAL name (the one she had used when my cousin got her little girl AND the name on all her ads)". She said, "this is her." I immediately told her who I was and I said that my cousin was the lady who had "the name of the girl she had rehomed" and that I was the one who was with her that day. I asked why she felt the need to lie to me and why she was collecting these puppies and rehoming them. She hung up on me before I could finish my questions.

That one just floored me. The sad thing is that the dogs she "collected" were mostly from reputable breeders in several neighboring states. Breeders who show, health test, have produced many champions, etc. Apparently she has gotten away with this many times. I am thankful that I was careful enough and that she didn't get one of my puppies, but sad that she has done this to others and is probably still doing it. The SADDEST thing to me, though, is her children. Her son was so upset having to hand over the little girl to my cousin. How many times has she put them through that?

It is definitely true that there are bad breeders, but there are also many bad buyers too.

I am confused, if this person was buying quality yorkies w/good blood lines and "rehoming" them for a small adoption fee how was she making money? What did she pay for them in the first place? Very sad story, i really feel terrible for those poor kids. When my son was 7 my husband brought home a long haired mutt puppy he got from one of his cousins who lived out in the country. Well this poor dog was a mess! Before we could put her down on the floor we had to de-flea her & wash all the mud off her. My hubby says they had to climb under the garden shed to retrieve her! Let me say these puppies were not in good shape. After we got her cleaned up she was really cute and had the sweetest personality ever! we played with her that evening and my son just loved her! Later that night she even slept in his bed(on his pillow) In the middle of the night i heard him in his room gasping for breath! he was crying and near hysterical! long story short, come to find out he was allergic to the dog so we had to rehome her. We found a nice family...a friend of our neighbor who had recently gotten married and was moving to Vermont. Well, he was just heartbroken. He cried & cried! I felt so so horrible and guilty for sending his pet away! How can some folks live with themselves for doing this over & over to their kids?! what kind of damage does this do to their little personalities? just plain CRUEL!