What Not to Say to Your Breeder

[ckuz13]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Again, as Nancy has stated reputable breeders on not in the business of selling dogs. Yes, people are wanting a dog, and I may not always have them. If the first question out of a potential client's mouth is how much....I take offense. Since my first concern is the welfare of the puppy where it goes to, I feel the first concern for possible new owner should be where that puppy came from, it's health, temperament and rearing. What kind of breeder I am. Bottom line that is how I operate, one does not have to buy a puppy from me.

But, I will say none of the homes where my puppies were placed, was their first concern about money. And even though I have a set companion price, I have been known to come down and not because they asked, but because I knew these people would give the puppy the best possible home.

No Reputable breeders should not be in the business of selling dogs..but they do sell them..you can call it place but it is still a sale. I agree it can be tacky for that to be the first question..but like I said..People are human beings and I just feel bad for some folks...Inthe end it should be about who you are placing your pet with and knowing it is the best home for them...and that is what really matters right?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

...Inthe end it should be about who you are placing your pet with and knowing it is the best home for them...and that is what really matters right?

Isn't that what I stated in my above post?

I really hear what you are saying and you are saying in from a perspective new puppy owner. My opinion is based on my past experiences. How I operate and conduct my interactions with potential clients is not going to change to please the public. It's all about my dogs/pup. But, since I breed minimally, and have a waiting list, it's something I don't have to deal with often.

[ckuz13]

Yes..I was just saying it again! lol! I have worked with rescue and in animal hospitals in the past 20 yrs. and I have seen it all too! I did bring home alot of our past patients and ended up adopting them. I was very lucky to know breeders in Calif...but now that I am away and things have changed so much..it is not easy! I see both sides and I try to be neutral in most of my posts. If I came off as defensive I apologize. Being on the other side..as a person who is looking for a breeder it can be challenging. Money has never been the issue for me ( Thank God ) only health and history

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

Yes..I was just saying it again! lol! I have worked with rescue and in animal hospitals in the past 20 yrs. and I have seen it all too! I did bring home alot of our past patients and ended up adopting them. I was very lucky to know breeders in Calif...but now that I am away and things have changed so much..it is not easy! I see both sides and I try to be neutral in most of my posts. If I came off as defensive I apologize. Being on the other side..as a person who is looking for a breeder it can be challenging. Money has never been the issue for me ( Thank God ) only health and history

I understand where you're coming from. As I am a consumer too. But, because of my journey with the Yorkshire Terrier, I see this aspect as not as potential purchase, but a living breathing creature. So, I ask myself, how did I think when I was on my quest to adopt a child (I know to most it's not the same). But, I will tell you that when I thought I couldn't have children and was definately looking to adopt....I didn't care what the cost was, I wanted a healthy child that I could love. At no time did the issue of money enter my mind. So, based on that anology, and I do view these creatures as babies, I just think money (although important), isn't at the top of the list.

[ckuz13]

I agree on not putting a price on love! Trust me when I say this..My husband is all for adopting a rescue and I coming from a place that dealt with sick animals and rescue, knows the importance of a well bred dog.I have to explain why it is so imortant to find a reputable breeder to my husband daily..and why Yorkies can have a high price tag and how it is important to not be lured by a nice website. I took him to a dog show so that he can see the difference in a nice quality vs. low quality. But most of the world does not see what we see..they see a dog!! He get's it now..thank goodness! I think I am the only YT. member on here that is still doing research..lol!

[Cares4Dogs]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Let me explain a bit. Breeders take offense when people's first and foremost question is how much? We view it as that is their only concern. Not that one shouldn't be concerned, it is a major purchase. But, most of us that breed to improve the breed, feel that a person's first concern should be about us as a breeder. The health of the dogs and puppies. If we hear the first words out of a potential clients mouth are "how much" we feel they are bargin shopping....

I dont necessarily think that just because a conversation starts with "how much" represents that the person is just looking for a bargain. A lot of people may have only $900 to spend and the cost is an important question especially since they are also going to have to go for vet checks, spay/neuter, food, etc.

Some people who are breeding ask for thousands for a pup so I truly believe that cost does matter when chosing a pup. Health is more important, yes, but cost is an important factor too.

There are a lot of people in the world who cant afford to take care of a pet and have no business even looking for one, but not everyone is looking for a handout either.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I dont necessarily think that just because a conversation starts with "how much" represents that the person is just looking for a bargain. A lot of people may have only $900 to spend and the cost is an important question especially since they are also going to have to go for vet checks, spay/neuter, food, etc.

Some people who are breeding ask for thousands for a pup so I truly believe that cost does matter when chosing a pup. Health is more important, yes, but cost is an important factor too.

There are a lot of people in the world who cant afford to take care of a pet and have no business even looking for one, but not everyone is looking for a handout either.

I agree with you, cost is an important factor. But, I think what Mardelin was trying to say is that reputable breeders look for reputable owners. Usually the first thing you ask is what your #1 concern is, if money is on the buyer's mind they will ask how much. If health is on the buyer's mind then they will ask about health test and certificates. As a buyer, I can really appreciate this mentality in a breeder. It shows they care for these loving creatures and really want what is best for them. We're not buying cars here.

[Marilize]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I dont necessarily think that just because a conversation starts with "how much" represents that the person is just looking for a bargain. A lot of people may have only $900 to spend and the cost is an important question especially since they are also going to have to go for vet checks, spay/neuter, food, etc.

Some people who are breeding ask for thousands for a pup so I truly believe that cost does matter when chosing a pup. Health is more important, yes, but cost is an important factor too.

Those truly great breeders don't charge a lot for their pups and they will lower their prices if you are right for their dogs.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think that the fact that cost is important says a lot and that's the point. For me personally, I can't afford thousands for a dog, but I pay it anyway. I save up to be able to afford to support the best breeder I can find. It takes longer and I have to be patient, but it's all worth it in the end. Cost shouldn't be a determining factor of the deal.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Marilize

Those truly great breeders don't charge a lot for their pups and they will lower their prices if you are right for their dogs.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think that the fact that cost is important says a lot and that's the point. For me personally, I can't afford thousands for a dog, but I pay it anyway. I save up to be able to afford to support the best breeder I can find. It takes longer and I have to be patient, but it's all worth it in the end. Cost shouldn't be a determining factor of the deal.

Agree. Do you also own a Boerbel?

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

Pretty typical phone call for me is this:

Or of course the oh so popular, "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie how much are yours?"
If that's your first question you aren't getting one of mine.

I read your story and it's sad that there are people like this out there.

Also not to be confrontational, but how is this a rude question? Some people are on a budget on what to spend on a puppy (without going to a petstore) and would not prefer to waste their/breeders time before finding out more about the puppy and getting attached to it from what they hear.

I think it's more odd that some "reputable breeders" sell their puppies for profit- seeling for more than 1600+. I can see that breeding a litter may cost up to 1000 per puppy for breeding costs/vet fees, and I wouln't argue since I don't know how much it costs on a per puppy basis, but I highly doubt it goes over even a $1000 for one puppy.

Just my opinion so please do inform me if I'm wrong.

Edit: after reading her post I quoted her and replied, but it brought me to the end of the thread and I realized someone had already posted on this. I apolgize for double posting!

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Again, as Nancy has stated reputable breeders on not in the business of selling dogs. Yes, people are wanting a dog, and I may not always have them. If the first question out of a potential client's mouth is how much....I take offense. Since my first concern is the welfare of the puppy where it goes to, I feel the first concern for possible new owner should be where that puppy came from, it's health, temperament and rearing. What kind of breeder I am. Bottom line that is how I operate, one does not have to buy a puppy from me.

But, I will say none of the homes where my puppies were placed, was their first concern about money. And even though I have a set companion price, I have been known to come down and not because they asked, but because I knew these people would give the puppy the best possible home.

Wow I'm really sorry but I think this is a little too much. Just because someone asked for the price first to see if it fits their budget does not mean that that they do not care for its health and the type of breeder you are. Because of breeders like this who react overly sensitive to certain questions I feel that most people just turn to petstores which promotes more puppymills. If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft, and educate what they might not know instead of being offended and turning down potential great owners so that they don't just go along with what everyone else does- buying from a pet shop.

[BamaFan121s]

If someone is breeding and selling solely for the intent of doing it for profit, then they aren't exactly "reputable breeders," are they? You'll find that those who aren't concerned with the price of their dogs don't every really have a "set price", so answering the question of 'how much' right off the bat wouldn't even be possible.

If someone calls me and wants to start negotiating price before asking me the first question about my dogs themself, that suggests to me that price, not quality is their main concern.

It never ceases to amaze me at how people always try to justify people supporting puppy mills by inventing new ways to make it the 'reputable breeders'' fault. IMO, ethical breeders set their prices based on the costs they have to cover. They shouldn't be expected to lower their prices so that they can complete with puppy mills. That logic is absurd. It suggests that they should view it as a business venture where they are competing in regards to price. It's like saying that Mercedes Benz should lower their prices so people will stop buying Kias!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Wow I'm really sorry but I think this is a little too much. Just because someone asked for the price first to see if it fits their budget does not mean that that they do not care for its health and the type of breeder you are. Because of breeders like this who react overly sensitive to certain questions I feel that most people just turn to petstores which promotes more puppymills. If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft, and educate what they might not know instead of being offended and turning down potential great owners so that they don't just go along with what everyone else does- buying from a pet shop.

Choco Milk, I think I can see both sides of the equation, but you are a tad off on your costs. First you have failed to put into your calculations the costs to have your breeding stock evaluated, that is the costs to finish a dog to it's championship. This is quite pricey, a baseline price/cost might be around $8000 or more per dog, and that is if you show this dog yourself.

Yorkie litters are usually not too large so let us say on average 3 pups per litter. All the prebreeding tests and all the health and genetic screening tests per sire and dam, will range between $500 to $1000 per breeding dog. Now if all goes well and there is no extraordinary vet costs, you might look to spend per puppy for vet shots and check ups and some pre screening tests about $250 or so per puppy. Then there are the food and whelping costs, more dollars. Also let us not forget the cost to register the litter.

Most breeders of good repute, will offer meaningfull health guarantees, which in certain circumstances will refund you the cost of your puppy, or may cover certain surgeries etc. Because we offer this, and mean to honor it, breeders should and do put aside a fair amount from each litter, in order to insure we can meet our financial obligations.

So what might look like a "profit" to you is in truth no profit at all. In fact for most of us, we are often "out of pocket" when it comes to seeing any true "profit" from our pups.

You may say well how can pet stores sell for so little, or I see ads on various websites, and some even here, that sells pups for a whole lot less than $1500 or $1600 etc. First I can almost guarantee you that the pups in pet stores do NOT come from Ch sires/dams. Often if not always from puppy mills. Secondly nowhere do I see, the USDA breeders being required to do breeed specific health tests, and screenings. The health guarantees are almost useless as well.

Raising a quality purebred dog is an expensive business if done correctly, and especially if done with the breeds improvement at the top of your mind.

I personally don't mind if the "first" question out of someone's mouth is how much does your dog cost? If there are more questions to come. Questions that show me, they are concerned with health and well being of the puppy, with any special needs that this breed may have. With questions that go to the ethics of myself as a breeder.

[ChocoMilk]

bamafan121s:

By no means did I state that anyone should "lower" their prices to meet puppy mill standards. As I have stated above, I am not aware on the amount that it takes to breed and raising a litter up to 12 weeks, and I believed it woudln't be over $1000 for a normal healthy puppy. I also asked to correct me if I'm wrong. I was just suggesting that, if it takes $1000 to breed/raise a puppy, it would be "ethical" as you put it to sell it for $1000. I was stating that for general puplic who loves and cares for their dogs just as much as everyone else, but does not know how tragic puppy mills can be, will be discouraged to buy from "ethical" breeders if faced with breeders who shut out on them. Just because a buyer may not want to hear about a dog that they can't afford because they may get attached, does that mean money is their priority. Also, not everyone is rich so why is it so "looked down upon" that money CAN be their priority? Also, not all "ethical breeders" are willing to come down for a potential client who would care deeply for their dogs.

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by gemy

Choco Milk, I think I can see both sides of the equation, but you are a tad off on your costs. First you have failed to put into your calculations the costs to have your breeding stock evaluated, that is the costs to finish a dog to it's championship. This is quite pricey, a baseline price/cost might be around $8000 or more per dog, and that is if you show this dog yourself.

Yorkie litters are usually not too large so let us say on average 3 pups per litter. All the prebreeding tests and all the health and genetic screening tests per sire and dam, will range between $500 to $1000 per breeding dog. Now if all goes well and there is no extraordinary vet costs, you might look to spend per puppy for vet shots and check ups and some pre screening tests about $250 or so per puppy. Then there are the food and whelping costs, more dollars. Also let us not forget the cost to register the litter.

Most breeders of good repute, will offer meaningfull health guarantees, which in certain circumstances will refund you the cost of your puppy, or may cover certain surgeries etc. Because we offer this, and mean to honor it, breeders should and do put aside a fair amount from each litter, in order to insure we can meet our financial obligations.

So what might look like a "profit" to you is in truth no profit at all. In fact for most of us, we are often "out of pocket" when it comes to seeing any true "profit" from our pups.

You may say well how can pet stores sell for so little, or I see ads on various websites, and some even here, that sells pups for a whole lot less than $1500 or $1600 etc. First I can almost guarantee you that the pups in pet stores do NOT come from Ch sires/dams. Often if not always from puppy mills. Secondly nowhere do I see, the USDA breeders being required to do breeed specific health tests, and screenings. The health guarantees are almost useless as well.

Raising a quality purebred dog is an expensive business if done correctly, and especially if done with the breeds improvement at the top of your mind.

I personally don't mind if the "first" question out of someone's mouth is how much does your dog cost? If there are more questions to come. Questions that show me, they are concerned with health and well being of the puppy, with any special needs that this breed may have. With questions that go to the ethics of myself as a breeder.

Thank you for the thorough answer. I think it may have answered all of my questions regarding the breeding costs. If a breeder does not sell for much profit, then I am by any means all for their set pricing even if it is high. If it exceeds any potential buyer's budget, they can probably find other breeders with less "champion-lines" and such so that they can find their right dog.

I am glad to know that you wouldn't judge a potential client from what they ask first. Most people are uneducated in this area, and for quiet some time I thought it was rude when I saw posts with breeders rudely stating "if you haven't researched, you don't deserve a dog". Just because a mother was not expecting a baby when she became pregnant does not mean that she will be a bad mother. Likewise, just because a family looking for a dog didn't know the "right set of questions" that won't tick them off, does not mean that they will be bad dog owners. In the end, what matters is that the puppies are placed in good homes and that general public is encouraged more and more to buy from caring breeders who are willing to inform them over pet stores.