What Not to Say to Your Breeder

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I was in the airport a couple of years ago and struck up a conversation with a guy that had a Standard Poodle he was shipping. He told me his mother had shipped the dog down to him from Washington to finish out and he was sending him back to her. Now, I haven't been around a ton of Poodles but this one certainly wasn't among the best I'd seen, so yeah, I think some are venue shopping to get that title. In my mind, there are champions and then there are true champions. I've also seen Yorkies with the 'CH' designation I didn't think much of.

Me too, one that recently won big too and because of who was at the other end of the lead. That's the other thing; if you want to finish a dog, that by no means should be in the ring, put it with a great handler, they can finish a dead cat.

Now, last summer I entered a show. What I witnessed was refreshing. The yorkies were being judged by a Texas judge that I knew. Show was outdoors. There were 2 dogs in the class. Both dogs were very obviously, poorly enhanced. LAVENDER....... Before the judge did his ribbon placements, he had the AKC rep. called over. When the AKC rep got there, he approached the exhibitors (both dogs were owned by the same person) and handed them the 3rd and 4th place ribbons and explained to them that no where in the yorkie standard describes the coat color on these two dogs.

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

There are several reasons.

BYBers outnumber Great Breeders. These BYBers breed indiscrimentatly....with no clue. And yes, most of their breeding is off standard. But, I don't know if this can be turned around. Great Breeders, breed very carefullly and don't produce a lot of litters. BYBers do and provide a buyers market for the public.

Great Breeders, because of being burnt so often, are now very guarded with their lines. And they do breed infrequently.

Yes, Pet quality dogs are obtaining championships.....if you drag it around long enough and show in obscure shows with no competition....

Now there are still some great dogs shown by great breeders in the ring. But, I am seeing BYBers in the ring with dogs that shouldn't even be there, let alone being used as breeding stock.

In Canada the problem with poorer quality yorkies is even worse, it is very easy to champion a dog especially where I live in the Prairies. Eastern Canada and British Columbia have better dogs. I am in the process now of getting a male from a YTCA breeder in order to improve my breeding stock. For me now the goal is to make sure that I improve with every litter that I breed. There are some great breeders in Canada, but it is very hard for someone who lives in the middle of nowhere to buy a great dog from a great Canadian breeder when you live where I do. When I get my new boy, I will show him first in Canada and then down in the US.
We have a lot of yorkies shown here that would not make the cut in the US (actually most of them)

And the backyard breeders, man I don't even want to go there, it makes my blood boil (and lots of them have some really nice dogs that they have imported and then just throw them together willy-nilly).

Audrey

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Yeah! Learning to talk the talk.....it's happened with breeders too.

Well this one is a fact for sure. It makes it really hard when your closest really good breeder lives 10 hours by car away from you and your first contact has to be by phone. And then they are really wary of you because they don't know if you are sincere or just know all the right things to say and you know that they have been burned so many times both by potential pet owners and by other breeders.

Audrey

[ranant12]

With my last litter, I actually had 2 crazy requests for a puppy.

The first woman called and started asking about the puppies. I then began to question her about why she wanted one and her pet history. When I asked if she had other dogs, she told me that she had owned a poodle that her husband bought her last year, but she "had" to give it away because "that thing kept using the bathroom in my house." I asked how old was it when you felt like you had to give it away and she replied "6 months old." I very quickly informed her that she would not be getting one of my puppies.

The next request actually came from my teacher's assistant. She decided that she wanted one for her 7 year old daughter to help her get over her "serious fear of dogs." I know her child and she are both scared of dogs. My assistant had never owned a dog other than a yard dog or two. Her daughter was terrified to even touch Diva, although she did think she was pretty. I finally just told her "no" in no uncertain terms. I suggested that she get her daughter a stuffed animal yorkie instead. Shortly after that she told me that her husband bought their daughter a Chi. Her daughter "refused" to touch the puppy and after one week they put it out on the porch. I intervened then and helped rehome the little Chi. I advised her strongly that the best pet for them was likely going to be a stuffed one.

[MadDeDo]

Pretty typical phone call for me is this:
Them: "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie, my wife/husband and I are wanting one to love and spoil. We want a pet only. Do yours have full registration papers?"
Me: "My puppies are registered, yes, but I require a spay/neuter contract and they either go on limited registration or I hold the paperwork until I have proof of spay/neuter."
!!!CLICK!!!

Or of course the oh so popular, "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie how much are yours?"
If that's your first question you aren't getting one of mine.

I have also been asked if they can "borrow" one of my puppies for a few days to "see if they like it."

Probably one of my saddest stories though involves someone that lives about 45 minutes away from me. About a year ago my cousin was looking for a Yorkie. I didn't have any available at the time so I was helping her look at and research other puppies/breeders in the area. She found a lady who was rehoming her 4 month old Yorkie female and was asking a reasonable adoption fee. She spoke with the lady on the phone and the story was that she had a 1 year old Yorkie male who she had rescued, and she bought him a "friend" (this little girl pup), but he did not get along with her. She also said that when she went to pick the puppy up from the breeder, she was smaller than she had thought, and that her children (I believe they were ages 3, 5, and 9...but definitely all young) were being too rough for such a small pup. We were sent a photo of the little girl and she was very pretty, we were also sent a pedigree on her and she was actually from quite nice lines. We decided to go and see the little girl, and started on the drive towards her house. She called my cousin about 10 minutes into it and said that something had come up and she wouldn't be able to have us over that night, but that she could meet us halfway with the pup instead. It was a bit of a strange story, and we were certain at this point that the lady must have had something to hide, but nevertheless we met her about half and hour later. She had the little girl with her, same as the pup in the picture, she had all the health records which showed her completely up to date on shots, and she had a more detailed hard copy of her pedigree, and her AKC papers. She also had her children with her, one of which was carrying the puppy, and he had tears in his eyes at the thought of giving her away. My cousin fell in love and ended up taking the pup. She was at a very reasonable low adoption fee and she was given the puppy's food, blanket, and toys in addition to all her paperwork. She took the puppy to the vet the next day and she was in perfect health, and we researched the breeder of the pup who turned out to be reputable. So all was well and my cousin was extremely happy with her decision.

Two months later she was scanning the web and came across and ad for a rehome on a male Yorkie puppy. She noticed that the location was the same as the lady where she got her female rehome. Then she noticed the phone number was the same, and email. We emailed the lady from a different email address to find out the story, and it was EXACTLY the same as what had been told for the first little girl, except obviously this was male pup. Same small adoption fee, same about not getting along with the children and being too small, not getting along with her rescue yorkie, etc. The pedigree was not the same as the female but was another nice pedigree. We were saddened by it, and the next day the ad on the male pup was gone, so we assumed he had been taken.

We put it out of out minds, about 6 more months went by, and I got a phone call one day from an extremely nice sounding lady. I couldn't answer my phone at the time, so she left a long message about how she was searching for the perfect Yorkie baby, etc. She also filled out my adoption questionnaire, gave references, etc. in an email. Her name sounded vaguely familiar to me, but I couldn't place it. I was actually on the way back from a long drive at the time, and I called her back on the road. We talked for about an hour. She explained that this would be her very first Yorkie but that she had done years of research, she had had other small breeds, had a small breed vet, etc. She said she was only looking to buy from a reputable breeder with quality dogs, but that she only wanted a pet, would be willing to sign a neuter contract, and would supply any additional information that I needed. I had one little male available at the time, and I told her about him. She never once asked about the price, only talked about his health, his parents' testing, my health guarantee, etc. She asked all the right questions. She wanted to see a picture of the little boy and I told her that as soon as I got back to my house I would send her a few, and I would also begin checking her references at that point. I asked her for another contact number, because she had only given me a home phone at that point, and she gave me an additional cell number.

Well I got home and something was just bugging me. I read over the answers to her questions and could just not put my finger on it. Then I started my googling. Her email address came back with nothing out of the ordinary, home number nothing strange. However, the cell phone immediately brought up SEVEN ads for Yorkie rehomes, including the little girl that my cousin had adopted, and the little boy we saw after that, and 5 others both before my cousin got hers and after. I could not believe it, it was the SAME lady!! She was using a different name, different house phone, different email, but guess she forgot to change that cell or thought I wouldn't put two and two together. Obviously she did not know that it was my cousin who had the little girl, or that it was me who was with my cousin that day. I never said I was a breeder then, since it was my cousin buying the pup, and she did most of the talking. So the WHOLE conversation she had with me, the entire adoption questionnaire, everything was a lie. I honestly was not sure how to handle the situation, but knew that I had to confront her. I called her back on her home number (which was the original number she gave on my questionnaire with her fake name), and she answered. When she did I asked to speak to "her REAL name (the one she had used when my cousin got her little girl AND the name on all her ads)". She said, "this is her." I immediately told her who I was and I said that my cousin was the lady who had "the name of the girl she had rehomed" and that I was the one who was with her that day. I asked why she felt the need to lie to me and why she was collecting these puppies and rehoming them. She hung up on me before I could finish my questions.

That one just floored me. The sad thing is that the dogs she "collected" were mostly from reputable breeders in several neighboring states. Breeders who show, health test, have produced many champions, etc. Apparently she has gotten away with this many times. I am thankful that I was careful enough and that she didn't get one of my puppies, but sad that she has done this to others and is probably still doing it. The SADDEST thing to me, though, is her children. Her son was so upset having to hand over the little girl to my cousin. How many times has she put them through that?

It is definitely true that there are bad breeders, but there are also many bad buyers too.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

Pretty typical phone call for me is this:
Them: "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie, my wife/husband and I are wanting one to love and spoil. We want a pet only. Do yours have full registration papers?"
Me: "My puppies are registered, yes, but I require a spay/neuter contract and they either go on limited registration or I hold the paperwork until I have proof of spay/neuter."
!!!CLICK!!!

Or of course the oh so popular, "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie how much are yours?"
If that's your first question you aren't getting one of mine.

I have also been asked if they can "borrow" one of my puppies for a few days to "see if they like it."

Probably one of my saddest stories though involves someone that lives about 45 minutes away from me. About a year ago my cousin was looking for a Yorkie. I didn't have any available at the time so I was helping her look at and research other puppies/breeders in the area. She found a lady who was rehoming her 4 month old Yorkie female and was asking a reasonable adoption fee. She spoke with the lady on the phone and the story was that she had a 1 year old Yorkie male who she had rescued, and she bought him a "friend" (this little girl pup), but he did not get along with her. She also said that when she went to pick the puppy up from the breeder, she was smaller than she had thought, and that her children (I believe they were ages 3, 5, and 9...but definitely all young) were being too rough for such a small pup. We were sent a photo of the little girl and she was very pretty, we were also sent a pedigree on her and she was actually from quite nice lines. We decided to go and see the little girl, and started on the drive towards her house. She called my cousin about 10 minutes into it and said that something had come up and she wouldn't be able to have us over that night, but that she could meet us halfway with the pup instead. It was a bit of a strange story, and we were certain at this point that the lady must have had something to hide, but nevertheless we met her about half and hour later. She had the little girl with her, same as the pup in the picture, she had all the health records which showed her completely up to date on shots, and she had a more detailed hard copy of her pedigree, and her AKC papers. She also had her children with her, one of which was carrying the puppy, and he had tears in his eyes at the thought of giving her away. My cousin fell in love and ended up taking the pup. She was at a very reasonable low adoption fee and she was given the puppy's food, blanket, and toys in addition to all her paperwork. She took the puppy to the vet the next day and she was in perfect health, and we researched the breeder of the pup who turned out to be reputable. So all was well and my cousin was extremely happy with her decision.

Two months later she was scanning the web and came across and ad for a rehome on a male Yorkie puppy. She noticed that the location was the same as the lady where she got her female rehome. Then she noticed the phone number was the same, and email. We emailed the lady from a different email address to find out the story, and it was EXACTLY the same as what had been told for the first little girl, except obviously this was male pup. Same small adoption fee, same about not getting along with the children and being too small, not getting along with her rescue yorkie, etc. The pedigree was not the same as the female but was another nice pedigree. We were saddened by it, and the next day the ad on the male pup was gone, so we assumed he had been taken.

We put it out of out minds, about 6 more months went by, and I got a phone call one day from an extremely nice sounding lady. I couldn't answer my phone at the time, so she left a long message about how she was searching for the perfect Yorkie baby, etc. She also filled out my adoption questionnaire, gave references, etc. in an email. Her name sounded vaguely familiar to me, but I couldn't place it. I was actually on the way back from a long drive at the time, and I called her back on the road. We talked for about an hour. She explained that this would be her very first Yorkie but that she had done years of research, she had had other small breeds, had a small breed vet, etc. She said she was only looking to buy from a reputable breeder with quality dogs, but that she only wanted a pet, would be willing to sign a neuter contract, and would supply any additional information that I needed. I had one little male available at the time, and I told her about him. She never once asked about the price, only talked about his health, his parents' testing, my health guarantee, etc. She asked all the right questions. She wanted to see a picture of the little boy and I told her that as soon as I got back to my house I would send her a few, and I would also begin checking her references at that point. I asked her for another contact number, because she had only given me a home phone at that point, and she gave me an additional cell number.

Well I got home and something was just bugging me. I read over the answers to her questions and could just not put my finger on it. Then I started my googling. Her email address came back with nothing out of the ordinary, home number nothing strange. However, the cell phone immediately brought up SEVEN ads for Yorkie rehomes, including the little girl that my cousin had adopted, and the little boy we saw after that, and 5 others both before my cousin got hers and after. I could not believe it, it was the SAME lady!! She was using a different name, different house phone, different email, but guess she forgot to change that cell or thought I wouldn't put two and two together. Obviously she did not know that it was my cousin who had the little girl, or that it was me who was with my cousin that day. I never said I was a breeder then, since it was my cousin buying the pup, and she did most of the talking. So the WHOLE conversation she had with me, the entire adoption questionnaire, everything was a lie. I honestly was not sure how to handle the situation, but knew that I had to confront her. I called her back on her home number (which was the original number she gave on my questionnaire with her fake name), and she answered. When she did I asked to speak to "her REAL name (the one she had used when my cousin got her little girl AND the name on all her ads)". She said, "this is her." I immediately told her who I was and I said that my cousin was the lady who had "the name of the girl she had rehomed" and that I was the one who was with her that day. I asked why she felt the need to lie to me and why she was collecting these puppies and rehoming them. She hung up on me before I could finish my questions.

That one just floored me. The sad thing is that the dogs she "collected" were mostly from reputable breeders in several neighboring states. Breeders who show, health test, have produced many champions, etc. Apparently she has gotten away with this many times. I am thankful that I was careful enough and that she didn't get one of my puppies, but sad that she has done this to others and is probably still doing it. The SADDEST thing to me, though, is her children. Her son was so upset having to hand over the little girl to my cousin. How many times has she put them through that?

It is definitely true that there are bad breeders, but there are also many bad buyers too.

Reading this story, just put chills up and down my back....but, for the life of me I just don't understand the purpose of this person buying dogs and then rehoming them for a reasonable fee.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

Pretty typical phone call for me is this:
Them: "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie, my wife/husband and I are wanting one to love and spoil. We want a pet only. Do yours have full registration papers?"
Me: "My puppies are registered, yes, but I require a spay/neuter contract and they either go on limited registration or I hold the paperwork until I have proof of spay/neuter."
!!!CLICK!!!

Or of course the oh so popular, "Hello I'm looking for a Yorkie how much are yours?"
If that's your first question you aren't getting one of mine.

I have also been asked if they can "borrow" one of my puppies for a few days to "see if they like it."

Probably one of my saddest stories though involves someone that lives about 45 minutes away from me. About a year ago my cousin was looking for a Yorkie. I didn't have any available at the time so I was helping her look at and research other puppies/breeders in the area. She found a lady who was rehoming her 4 month old Yorkie female and was asking a reasonable adoption fee. She spoke with the lady on the phone and the story was that she had a 1 year old Yorkie male who she had rescued, and she bought him a "friend" (this little girl pup), but he did not get along with her. She also said that when she went to pick the puppy up from the breeder, she was smaller than she had thought, and that her children (I believe they were ages 3, 5, and 9...but definitely all young) were being too rough for such a small pup. We were sent a photo of the little girl and she was very pretty, we were also sent a pedigree on her and she was actually from quite nice lines. We decided to go and see the little girl, and started on the drive towards her house. She called my cousin about 10 minutes into it and said that something had come up and she wouldn't be able to have us over that night, but that she could meet us halfway with the pup instead. It was a bit of a strange story, and we were certain at this point that the lady must have had something to hide, but nevertheless we met her about half and hour later. She had the little girl with her, same as the pup in the picture, she had all the health records which showed her completely up to date on shots, and she had a more detailed hard copy of her pedigree, and her AKC papers. She also had her children with her, one of which was carrying the puppy, and he had tears in his eyes at the thought of giving her away. My cousin fell in love and ended up taking the pup. She was at a very reasonable low adoption fee and she was given the puppy's food, blanket, and toys in addition to all her paperwork. She took the puppy to the vet the next day and she was in perfect health, and we researched the breeder of the pup who turned out to be reputable. So all was well and my cousin was extremely happy with her decision.

Two months later she was scanning the web and came across and ad for a rehome on a male Yorkie puppy. She noticed that the location was the same as the lady where she got her female rehome. Then she noticed the phone number was the same, and email. We emailed the lady from a different email address to find out the story, and it was EXACTLY the same as what had been told for the first little girl, except obviously this was male pup. Same small adoption fee, same about not getting along with the children and being too small, not getting along with her rescue yorkie, etc. The pedigree was not the same as the female but was another nice pedigree. We were saddened by it, and the next day the ad on the male pup was gone, so we assumed he had been taken.

We put it out of out minds, about 6 more months went by, and I got a phone call one day from an extremely nice sounding lady. I couldn't answer my phone at the time, so she left a long message about how she was searching for the perfect Yorkie baby, etc. She also filled out my adoption questionnaire, gave references, etc. in an email. Her name sounded vaguely familiar to me, but I couldn't place it. I was actually on the way back from a long drive at the time, and I called her back on the road. We talked for about an hour. She explained that this would be her very first Yorkie but that she had done years of research, she had had other small breeds, had a small breed vet, etc. She said she was only looking to buy from a reputable breeder with quality dogs, but that she only wanted a pet, would be willing to sign a neuter contract, and would supply any additional information that I needed. I had one little male available at the time, and I told her about him. She never once asked about the price, only talked about his health, his parents' testing, my health guarantee, etc. She asked all the right questions. She wanted to see a picture of the little boy and I told her that as soon as I got back to my house I would send her a few, and I would also begin checking her references at that point. I asked her for another contact number, because she had only given me a home phone at that point, and she gave me an additional cell number.

Well I got home and something was just bugging me. I read over the answers to her questions and could just not put my finger on it. Then I started my googling. Her email address came back with nothing out of the ordinary, home number nothing strange. However, the cell phone immediately brought up SEVEN ads for Yorkie rehomes, including the little girl that my cousin had adopted, and the little boy we saw after that, and 5 others both before my cousin got hers and after. I could not believe it, it was the SAME lady!! She was using a different name, different house phone, different email, but guess she forgot to change that cell or thought I wouldn't put two and two together. Obviously she did not know that it was my cousin who had the little girl, or that it was me who was with my cousin that day. I never said I was a breeder then, since it was my cousin buying the pup, and she did most of the talking. So the WHOLE conversation she had with me, the entire adoption questionnaire, everything was a lie. I honestly was not sure how to handle the situation, but knew that I had to confront her. I called her back on her home number (which was the original number she gave on my questionnaire with her fake name), and she answered. When she did I asked to speak to "her REAL name (the one she had used when my cousin got her little girl AND the name on all her ads)". She said, "this is her." I immediately told her who I was and I said that my cousin was the lady who had "the name of the girl she had rehomed" and that I was the one who was with her that day. I asked why she felt the need to lie to me and why she was collecting these puppies and rehoming them. She hung up on me before I could finish my questions.

That one just floored me. The sad thing is that the dogs she "collected" were mostly from reputable breeders in several neighboring states. Breeders who show, health test, have produced many champions, etc. Apparently she has gotten away with this many times. I am thankful that I was careful enough and that she didn't get one of my puppies, but sad that she has done this to others and is probably still doing it. The SADDEST thing to me, though, is her children. Her son was so upset having to hand over the little girl to my cousin. How many times has she put them through that?

It is definitely true that there are bad breeders, but there are also many bad buyers too.

Oh wow, this is horrible, but I have a feeling she may have been doing this to "punish" her children. There are a lot of bad mothers out there too. Reminds me of the book Mommie Dearest.

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Reading this story, just put chills up and down my back....but, for the life of me I just don't understand the purpose of this person buying dogs and then rehoming them for a reasonable fee.

I have never understood it either. I wish I had more answers and I still beat myself up for not going about it in a different way. I suppose it was heat of the moment and I was so upset that she would lie to me so blatantly and attempt to get one of my babies. I HAD to confront her immediately, but in hindsight I probably could have retrieved more info by doing things differently. She obviously has some sort of mental issue to be doing this over and over. It's obviously not for a profit, so there is something seriously wrong.

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Oh wow, this is horrible, but I have a feeling she may have been doing this to "punish" her children. There are a lot of bad mothers out there too. Reminds me of the book Mommie Dearest.

Oh God, I didn't even consider that...sick sick sick. I wish there was something I could do in that regard as well, but there were no signs of abuse or neglect in the short time that I saw her with her children, so really I have nothing. Poor kids, and poor dogs.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Reading this story, just put chills up and down my back....but, for the life of me I just don't understand the purpose of this person buying dogs and then rehoming them for a reasonable fee.

That got me too. Where would the profit be, and you would assume profit's the motive. If she was buying from breeders with good dogs, you would think it would be a money losing proposition .

[MadDeDo]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

That got me too. Where would the profit be, and you would assume profit's the motive. If she was buying from breeders with good dogs, you would think it would be a money losing proposition .

She absolutely had to be losing a lot of money each time...each dog was listed for a $400 adoption fee, male or female, didn't matter. They always came with all their toys, blanket, and vet records. The vet records on the little girl my cousin has actually matched the lady's "real" name. I don't know if she is vet hopping either because I only saw that one set of records. Makes no real sense to me and that was what was so scary about it. I don't know her real motives. If not some sort of financial gain...then what?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by MadDeDo

Oh God, I didn't even consider that...sick sick sick. I wish there was something I could do in that regard as well, but there were no signs of abuse or neglect in the short time that I saw her with her children, so really I have nothing. Poor kids, and poor dogs.

Psychological abuse can be more damaging than physical abuse. The abusive mother is often seen in a positive light by her children and others. The children are taught that she had to take back the puppy because they were bad.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

That got me too. Where would the profit be, and you would assume profit's the motive. If she was buying from breeders with good dogs, you would think it would be a money losing proposition .

At one time there was a breeder on here that would purchase or try to dogs from reputable breeders just say she could....But, she would use them for breeding.

[Woogie Man]

I think the ones that are up to something probably know all the right things to say. I'm lucky in that the whack jobs I've run across have been blatant (or flaky, like the one I posted about earlier). I had a lady call once asking for a really small one. We were talking for a minute and I asked about any other dogs she may have. She told me straight up that she had gotten several Yorkies but they all got too big so she got rid of them.

I tell ya, you have to appreciate honesty. It saved me a lot of time....

[AmyChristine]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Psychological abuse can be more damaging than physical abuse. The abusive mother is often seen in a positive light by her children and others. The children are taught that she had to take back the puppy because they were bad.

This is what I was thinking too, there are some people who are unbelievably abusive to their children but they go about it in ways that are not as obvious to the people around them.