Females try to kill each other!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by motherhen

We fixed the Xpen like a gate, to divide off part of the kitchen area from the rest of the house. Actually it's working better then I thought it would. Now the puppies,male & one female are in there -- and the other female roams the house. In a few hours I switch it so that the other area of the kitchen is sectioned off. The other female goes in there, and everyone else has the run of the house. The pups are now using the doggy door more, so that's a plus when they are penned in the kitchen . All-in-all, things have settled down a lot. I'm glad to hear that males don't fight. We've got 2 male puppies that we are still going to get. Sure glad I won't have to worry about them like that. But, if I should, I know now how to use the Xpen like a gate to section areas off. Now, we'll have to try to get another Xpen to use for when puppies are born.
Barb

Am I to understand that you are adding 2 additional male puppies into your household? Are you sure you are going to have the economic and emotional wherewithal to care for what would it be? 2 new - 2 current breeding females and one stud?
Perhaps I've misunderstood, I certainly hope so. I am concerned about your post on a number of fronts. It seems like your "abused" female was potentially breed at or around a year old. That is too young
I personally have a problem with "using" dogs to supplement income, surely there could be another alternative, even if you are disabled. Most of the very good hobby breeders do not "earn" money from the breeding of dogs, as they perform all the necessary health checks, and tests, and offer health guarantees to their prospective buyers.

I as a potential breeder have spent seven years researching, training, testing, assisting in whelping, attended genetics seminars, read and researched as much as I can on my breed. I knew enough when my female went into heat to keep her separated from our males, the least of which is I didn't want an unplanned pregnancy. And of course she was way too young to be bred at one year old.

There is no guarantee that two full males will get along over time. Some do, some do not. Unless you have the space and dedication to keep very separate two full males that decide they don't like each other, then you should not add more males to your household.

I know that you have come on here to ask for "help" in a problem of keeping two bitches who fight when they are pregnant or in heat. But it certainly seems to me that you have not researched breeding lines, breeding health issues, done the required CERF and OFA tests, and have no mentor for Yorkie breeding. I cannot support a "breeder" who doesn't breed for the betterment of the breed and not their pocketbook!

Please stop breeding and find some other means to support your realty taxes!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i dont understand your argument in this first paragraph

i have both ckc and akc yorkies and had the same experience with each breeder..actually the ckc breeder was more human in my opinion she chatted with me and was more interested in puppies then the akc breeder..but i liked both of them alright i guess

i would say there are a lot of breeders that breed to breed and sell yorkies to people who cant/wont spend the 1000s on a show quality PET...good lord my husbands jar hits the floor when he sees the price tags on yorkies...and im again assuming alot of wifes have that problem with husband and sticker shock so thats another area where byb are in demand

what you call a byb i have two verisons a byb and a hobby breeder..i will by from hobby breeders..i wont buy dirty mangy pups that are housed outside and stain in their own urine..but i will buy pups that are housed inside and loved and well cared for have their paperwork n medical records and a breeder that stays ins touch

Oh please, hobby breeders don't make money from breeding. It's their HOBBY, not a business. Glad you don't buy dirty mangy pups, but some of us have higher standards. People who have hobbies love reading and learning everything they can on their "hobby".

[BellaDonna]

I agree that Calypso should be spayed and not let near another pregnant female or new puppies. I also agree that people should not breed willy nilly to satisfy their need to see pups born or in bulk to line their pockets.

But, I am also a realist and my Bella is from a pet breeder (a person that bred their 2 pets). I was thrilled to have found her. I had a choice between her and a couple of dogs from what people call breeders and I liked her more. Not to mention she was in my price range. Unless I win the lottery I will never pay $2000.00 for a pet. It just isn't something I would do. Her surroundings were homey and clean, she was well loved, very balanced and happy. My vet says she is very healthy and I am proud to own her and take care of her for the rest of my life. I am sure the couple that bred their pets weren't knowledgeable about many things but that doesn't mean they were the dregs of the earth either. While I was there I even talked to them about the perils.

Who knows, one day I may decide to breed to "better the breed" but even those who do that had to start somewhere. They didn't just roll out of bed one morning and say..."I am going to be a top notch breeder today" Everyone has to learn, even the best breeders on this board.

I have seen puppy mills, bad byb and great pet home breeders and Hightone/high $$ breeders. There are exceptions to every scenario.

We all get to have our opinions.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by gemy

Am I to understand that you are adding 2 additional male puppies into your household? Are you sure you are going to have the economic and emotional wherewithal to care for what would it be? 2 new - 2 current breeding females and one stud?
Perhaps I've misunderstood, I certainly hope so. I am concerned about your post on a number of fronts. It seems like your "abused" female was potentially breed at or around a year old. That is too young
I personally have a problem with "using" dogs to supplement income, surely there could be another alternative, even if you are disabled. Most of the very good hobby breeders do not "earn" money from the breeding of dogs, as they perform all the necessary health checks, and tests, and offer health guarantees to their prospective buyers.

I as a potential breeder have spent seven years researching, training, testing, assisting in whelping, attended genetics seminars, read and researched as much as I can on my breed. I knew enough when my female went into heat to keep her separated from our males, the least of which is I didn't want an unplanned pregnancy. And of course she was way too young to be bred at one year old.

There is no guarantee that two full males will get along over time. Some do, some do not. Unless you have the space and dedication to keep very separate two full males that decide they don't like each other, then you should not add more males to your household.

I know that you have come on here to ask for "help" in a problem of keeping two bitches who fight when they are pregnant or in heat. But it certainly seems to me that you have not researched breeding lines, breeding health issues, done the required CERF and OFA tests, and have no mentor for Yorkie breeding. I cannot support a "breeder" who doesn't breed for the betterment of the breed and not their pocketbook!

Please stop breeding and find some other means to support your realty taxes!

Well said!!!

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Oh please, hobby breeders don't make money from breeding. It's their HOBBY, not a business. Glad you don't buy dirty mangy pups, but some of us have higher standards. People who have hobbies love reading and learning everything they can on their "hobby".

im glad you were able to twist that

but no yorkies are one of my favorite hobbies and i breed them..i have raised several litter..kept in touch with them and they are happy n healthy..i am an active breeder...i care for them they are raised in the house with the parents, my family, i feed them good food, i do the vet care anything they need, i do the paper work, i do the gift packs, i do the pics every week, i start the potty training i answer all the questions, im always available...i have akc and ckc...i give what i want from a breeder...and i dont settle..sometimes i do make some profit off of them...but i dont do testings and such..so i am a byb or a hobby breeder..but all my pups..which i have had todate 6 litters total are in the same home i sold to...and thriving..all healthy....and it makes me happy to make someone else happy with their yorkies..i have made some great friends through it to..

i also love learning and reading on the breed

[hartygirl]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i dont understand your argument in this first paragraph

My point is money talks to people who listen. No amount of money is going to change the way I feel about my convictions.

I have both AKC and CKC yorkies, however I educated myself about where they came from and am taking an active role to see that that kind of Back yard breeding and selfish mentality changes.

I am against anyone who exploits animals for profit.

i have both ckc and akc yorkies and had the same experience with each breeder..actually the ckc breeder was more human in my opinion she chatted with me and was more interested in puppies then the akc breeder..but i liked both of them alright i guess

i would say there are a lot of breeders that breed to breed and sell yorkies to people who cant/wont spend the 1000s on a show quality PET...good lord my husbands jar hits the floor when he sees the price tags on yorkies...and im again assuming alot of wifes have that problem with husband and sticker shock so thats another area where byb are in demand

what you call a byb i have two verisons a byb and a hobby breeder..i will by from hobby breeders..i wont buy dirty mangy pups that are housed outside and stain in their own urine..but i will buy pups that are housed inside and loved and well cared for have their paperwork n medical records and a breeder that stays ins touch

Do you not see the wrong in dirty mangy pups covered in urine and fecal matter? Will you not do anything in your power to end suffering for them, or because you can afford cheep dogs all of this is somehow ok with you?

[hartygirl]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

im glad you were able to twist that

but no yorkies are one of my favorite hobbies and i breed them..i have raised several litter..kept in touch with them and they are happy n healthy..i am an active breeder...i care for them they are raised in the house with the parents, my family, i feed them good food, i do the vet care anything they need, i do the paper work, i do the gift packs, i do the pics every week, i start the potty training i answer all the questions, im always available...i have akc and ckc...i give what i want from a breeder...and i dont settle..sometimes i do make some profit off of them...but i dont do testings and such..so i am a byb or a hobby breeder..but all my pups..which i have had todate 6 litters total are in the same home i sold to...and thriving..all healthy....and it makes me happy to make someone else happy with their yorkies..i have made some great friends through it to..

i also love learning and reading on the breed

Glad to see you are going to be continuing your education about Yorkshire Terriers.

I hope to see you on my side of the argument someday, we could use your help.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

im glad you were able to twist that

but no yorkies are one of my favorite hobbies and i breed them..i have raised several litter..kept in touch with them and they are happy n healthy..i am an active breeder...i care for them they are raised in the house with the parents, my family, i feed them good food, i do the vet care anything they need, i do the paper work, i do the gift packs, i do the pics every week, i start the potty training i answer all the questions, im always available...i have akc and ckc...i give what i want from a breeder...and i dont settle..sometimes i do make some profit off of them...but i dont do testings and such..so i am a byb or a hobby breeder..but all my pups..which i have had todate 6 litters total are in the same home i sold to...and thriving..all healthy....and it makes me happy to make someone else happy with their yorkies..i have made some great friends through it to..

i also love learning and reading on the breed

I don't see how I "twisted" anything, I didn't know that you were a breeder, but that explains a lot. I think a lot of BYB's call themselves hobby breeders, but this is a term I hold dearly. By the way, does anyone really ever call themselves a backyard breeder? I've never heard of one breeder referring to themselves as one, but we know they are out there.

[hartygirl]

I hope that the 2 yorkies that are the reason behind this thread are going to be kept separated until a realistic solution is reached.

Until then Motherhen, look around at the threads in the breeder section, there will a wealth of information there for you. I hope your financial situation improves, but not at the cost of your devoted pets.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by hartygirl

Do you not see the wrong in dirty mangy pups covered in urine and fecal matter? Will you not do anything in your power to end suffering for them, or because you can afford cheep dogs all of this is somehow ok with you?

i dont think its right and im not buying them..thats my way of fighting them its supply and demand if they dont have the demand they wont sell them

i do see the problem with them that why i stated i wouldnt buy one dirty mangy urine covered pup

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't see how I "twisted" anything, I didn't know that you were a breeder, but that explains a lot. I think a lot of BYB's call themselves hobby breeders, but this is a term I hold dearly. By the way, does anyone really ever call themselves a backyard breeder? I've never heard of one breeder referring to themselves as one, but we know they are out there.

i think if you have dirty mangy urine covered pups your a byb

i think if you have clean healthy happy puppies your a hobby breeder..and you can certainly come see for your self..or call my references

i dont think its right to tear about hobby breeders which always get classified with the byb's

[ladyjane]

Oh please....I just saw this thread. Twice I have seen the OP compare human beings to dogs. I do not understand this kind of thinking.
What does your husband cheating on you have to do with dogs who are fighting? Seriously. And. how in the world can you justify breeding an abused dog by saying that YOU were abused? Oh please........
I need to go find a bucket. All of this stuff is just too much for my head. As if the world needs more poorly bred yorkies.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i think if you have dirty mangy urine covered pups your a byb

i think if you have clean healthy happy puppies your a hobby breeder..and you can certainly come see for your self..or call my references

i dont think its right to tear about hobby breeders which always get classified with the byb's

Have you never been to a pet store and seen clean puppies? They are all clean, but I can PROMISE you they don't come from a clean environment.

I think you are so worried about protecting your own reputation as you see it, that you don't want to admit the truth that everyone knows about the bad breeders out there.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

im glad you were able to twist that

but no yorkies are one of my favorite hobbies and i breed them..i have raised several litter..kept in touch with them and they are happy n healthy..i am an active breeder...i care for them they are raised in the house with the parents, my family, i feed them good food, i do the vet care anything they need, i do the paper work, i do the gift packs, i do the pics every week, i start the potty training i answer all the questions, im always available...i have akc and ckc...i give what i want from a breeder...and i dont settle..sometimes i do make some profit off of them...but i dont do testings and such..so i am a byb or a hobby breeder..but all my pups..which i have had todate 6 litters total are in the same home i sold to...and thriving..all healthy....and it makes me happy to make someone else happy with their yorkies..i have made some great friends through it to..

i also love learning and reading on the breed

I'm just curious how old your breeders are? It looks like you only have 2 -- and you said you've had 6 litters -- are they from the same dogs? And they're Yorkie/Pom mixes?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

i think if you have dirty mangy urine covered pups your a byb

i think if you have clean healthy happy puppies your a hobby breeder..and you can certainly come see for your self..or call my references

i dont think its right to tear about hobby breeders which always get classified with the byb's

So you have two criteria to differentiate between a hobby breeder and a back yard breeder. Please read this list of the differences between hobby breeders and backyard breeders, and see for yourself which side of the list you fall on. It's much more than one or two things. A COMPARISON OF: Responsible Hobby Breeders and Backyard Breeders/Irresponsible Breeders