Bleeding and breeding

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Marc

Ok, I just talked to the vet assistant. She said to wait a few days and see if she is discharging black/green or bloody in which case she still has them in her. I saw the first one after the first pup....but had to cut the cord on the other two and never saw placenta. Could she have passed them at night and ate them? She is perfectly clean down there. What happens if she gets the shot and there was no retained placenta?

Now, do I let momma eat as much as she wants? She scarfed down about three tbsp of whelping pudding, a whole scrambled egg and even a bit of her own food this morning when she left the box for the first time! How much of what do these nursing moms need?

Thanks so much. They both are up .1 of an ounce since during the night. I believe they are getting what they need as they never cry like they aren't. They are both nice and warm as mom choses to lay on the side that has the heating pad. I have a couple layers of blanket on top of the pad.

Anyway, do I wait it out and see if she discharges and then I know for sure that there is placenta in there still?

The pups are going thursday for tails and dewclaw.

I will have plenty of questions.

I did make a decision to get her fixed. Though she herself was in no danger....the stress she was under with the first pup being whisked away...she ran the house out of control from stress and confusion. I just love her too much to have a repeat of that. I told myself before I started this that if something went wrong....or she was under stress....then I would spay her. I love her too much to put her through that again. And frankly, I myself have learnt that I cannot witness something to that degree again....which takes me out breeding. I LOVED to do all the reading and learning and dont regret that for one minute. I will just be a cheerleader for others from here on out

I just love her too much.

No, don't wait....get her in....waiting can cost her her life....infection sets in too fast. There are other reasons to have a POP shot. Get her in.....Be insistent. This is your girl....be an active participant in her medical care......waiting for her to show signs of infection is too late.....it'll be harder on her, the pups and you. If you want PM FLDebra, she'll share her experience with you....she lost her girl.

Let mom eat as much as she wants

What your girl did when she lost her pup is very, very natural....It's there mom's instinct setting in.....she knew something was wrong, but didn't know how to fix it......

You went through this experience and found it wasn't for you.......Breeding isn't for the faint of heart.....This breed can and will bring you to your knees.

Prayers are with you.

[Marc]

What are the ramifications to giving that shot and there is not placenta in there? My vet assistant seems to not think it necessary unless over the next few days she discharges, doesn't want to feed her babies, fever....some signs.

Shes not worried about the calcium either with two pups. I will make sure she gets scrambled egg and stuff to be sure.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Marc

Ok, I just talked to the vet assistant. She said to wait a few days and see if she is discharging black/green or bloody in which case she still has them in her. I saw the first one after the first pup....but had to cut the cord on the other two and never saw placenta. Could she have passed them at night and ate them? She is perfectly clean down there. What happens if she gets the shot and there was no retained placenta?

Now, do I let momma eat as much as she wants? She scarfed down about three tbsp of whelping pudding, a whole scrambled egg and even a bit of her own food this morning when she left the box for the first time! How much of what do these nursing moms need?

Thanks so much. They both are up .1 of an ounce since during the night. I believe they are getting what they need as they never cry like they aren't. They are both nice and warm as mom choses to lay on the side that has the heating pad. I have a couple layers of blanket on top of the pad.

Anyway, do I wait it out and see if she discharges and then I know for sure that there is placenta in there still?

The pups are going thursday for tails and dewclaw.

I will have plenty of questions.

I did make a decision to get her fixed. Though she herself was in no danger....the stress she was under with the first pup being whisked away...she ran the house out of control from stress and confusion. I just love her too much to have a repeat of that. I told myself before I started this that if something went wrong....or she was under stress....then I would spay her. I love her too much to put her through that again. And frankly, I myself have learnt that I cannot witness something to that degree again....which takes me out breeding. I LOVED to do all the reading and learning and dont regret that for one minute. I will just be a cheerleader for others from here on out

I just love her too much.

Your feelings are EXACTLY what I immediately felt after my Livi had her first litter!! I was determined to NEVER breed again! We went through so much and every single loss made me more intent on not doing this again. So, I completely understand what you are saying. With me, my husband asked me to wait just to see how I felt in a few months. After raising her one surviving puppy...and falling soooooooo madly in love with him and the whole process of watching him grow, I decided to try breeding one more time. In fact, my Livi could be pregnant right now. But, I will be ready to throw the towel in if something goes wrong again. I have a whole new found respect for the long-time breeders!!! I knew that a lot went into breeding, but never could feel how much of the heart and soul goes in until I went through it first-hand.

You have to do what is right for you....I just thought that I would throw that out there.

Tammy

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Marc

What are the ramifications to giving that shot and there is not placenta in there? My vet assistant seems to not think it necessary unless over the next few days she discharges, doesn't want to feed her babies, fever....some signs.

Shes not worried about the calcium either with two pups. I will make sure she gets scrambled egg and stuff to be sure.

There are no ramifications.....I make it a common practice to administer a POP shot....it assits in getting her getting her uterus back into place, removal of any dead tissue, and the let down of milk............Sorry, I don't agree with your vet tech at all.........Why wait for signs of trouble......at the point of trouble she'll have to be on antibiotics. The only ramification if it is administered too soon after a whelp....uterine prolapse. I've administered it, with my vet's instructions between pups, when my girl was lagging behind, to increase contractions.

Oxcytocin shots are administered after a woman delivers babies for the same purposes.

[carmen in nj]

I don't know how you feel about holistic medicine but when my son's taffy ( Jack Rusell) gave birth she had a retained placenta, and my vet also suggested waiting 24 hrs. I called my holistic vet and she suggested to give her half a cup of "red rabsberry leaf tea" mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of karo syrop, and within 20 minutes she had expeled the placenta, she also said it will help with milk production and uterous cleaning, I am very glad I did , taffy had her babies in january and it was super cold the last thing I wanted was to drag them into that cold..
HTH,
Carmen in nj

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

I don't know how you feel about holistic medicine but when my son's taffy ( Jack Rusell) gave birth she had a retained placenta, and my vet also suggested waiting 24 hrs. I called my holistic vet and she suggested to give her half a cup of "red rabsberry leaf tea" mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of karo syrop, and within 20 minutes she had expeled the placenta, she also said it will help with milk production and uterous cleaning, I am very glad I did , taffy had her babies in january and it was super cold the last thing I wanted was to drag them into that cold..
HTH,
Carmen in nj

Funny, I administer rasberry tea leaf syrup throughout my girls pregnancies.

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Funny, I administer rasberry tea leaf syrup throughout my girls pregnancies.

he,he, I been doing that with my Chanel too.. I LOVE my holistic Vet, and let me tell you it works.. I love it..she said that the tea is a bit stronger when brew and it would give her the necesarry push for the placentas to come out and you know what? it works for menopausal problems too..LOL I am taking it and no more hot flashes... I understand a lot of pregnat ladies are drinking too..my local GNC can barely keep it on the shelves..

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

I don't know how you feel about holistic medicine but when my son's taffy ( Jack Rusell) gave birth she had a retained placenta, and my vet also suggested waiting 24 hrs. I called my holistic vet and she suggested to give her half a cup of "red rabsberry leaf tea" mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of karo syrop, and within 20 minutes she had expeled the placenta, she also said it will help with milk production and uterous cleaning, I am very glad I did , taffy had her babies in january and it was super cold the last thing I wanted was to drag them into that cold..
HTH,
Carmen in nj

That is very interesting! Thank you for sharing this!

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Funny, I administer rasberry tea leaf syrup throughout my girls pregnancies.

Mary, why do you give them this during their pregnancies....does it help to comfort them?? How much do you give to them?

[bjh]

I use to give clean out shots until I had a bitch have a bad reaction to the shot. My vet advised me that you need to wait at least 24 hours after the pups are born before giving the shot. The pups suckling on the momma will stimulate the uterus to contract and most of the time the placentas will pass a few hours after the pups are born and the mom will usually eat it.

[WV~Yorkies]

Tara did not pass her last placenta. I took her in the next morning for the shot. I didn't want to take a chance of infection.

I felt just like you my last whelping. I lost the first one at birth. The second boy I lost in 2 week after tube feeding him every 2 hours. He gained weight the day before he died and I thought he might make it...sadly he didn't. I said I would never do this again. After a few months I was ready again. First time mom's do get nervous they don't know what is going on.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

I use to give clean out shots until I had a bitch have a bad reaction to the shot. My vet advised me that you need to wait at least 24 hours after the pups are born before giving the shot. The pups suckling on the momma will stimulate the uterus to contract and most of the time the placentas will pass a few hours after the pups are born and the mom will usually eat it.

Barb,

If you wait 24 hours....Per my repro vet she has already closed......that is what causes the infection if a placenta is retained......shot should be given 6 to 12 hours after whelp........

Pups stimulating mothers isn't always the case....especially if infection is setting in, mother will be reluctant to nurse.

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Barb,

If you wait 24 hours....Per my repro vet she has already closed......that is what causes the infection if a placenta is retained......shot should be given 6 to 12 hours after whelp........

Pups stimulating mothers isn't always the case....especially if infection is setting in, mother will be reluctant to nurse.

hmmmm, good to know, I did not know that, now I am SO GLAD , I did called my holistic vet and I gave Taffy the tea remedy. I guess it depends on the vet. I am asking my son to bring home an oxy shot JUST in case..LOL
hugs,
carmen in nj

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

Mary, why do you give them this during their pregnancies....does it help to comfort them?? How much do you give to them?

Given during the last trimester, it strenghtens the uterine walls to assist her in the whelp.....supposedly, and I haven't a clue if this is true, it's suppose to help with her whelping pains. But, what I did find and purely by accident, by not administering (can't tell you why, I just plain forgot) I found a difference in the thickness of the umbilical cord......don't know if that had anything to do with it......but, without it the umbilical cord was not as thick and healthy looking. Also, administer folic acid during the last trimester.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

hmmmm, good to know, I did not know that, now I am SO GLAD , I did called my holistic vet and I gave Taffy the tea remedy. I guess it depends on the vet. I am asking my son to bring home an oxy shot JUST in case..LOL
hugs,
carmen in nj

Carmen,

Please don't administer during the whelp without your vet or son's instructions......Administering it prior to the first pup can cause premature placenta seperation........What my vet does is take an x-ray......loads up the number of shots (1/4 cc) to match the number of pups that he views in the x-ray.....with instructions.....if you don't need these don't give, unless you've contacted me.......The one shot you can give is after all whelp is completed and not too soon.