Ok Is It or Is It Not Safe

[bjh]

Originally Posted by YorkieShadow

I will say that with the time I have been here on YT and not just on YT but IRL I have heard a few people say they would never breed a female under 5 lbs. then they will post their pups up for sell or just be chit chatting in a thread and say their female (who we knew they breed )is only 3-4 lbs.

Yes, there are some people out there with double standards but I think the majority are honest. I also think there are people that exaggerate the size of their dogs, when they breed them they are over 5 lbs but then when it comes times to selling the pups they are suddenly much smaller because they know that the buyers want to hear that the pups are from small parents.

[nlappegard]

Originally Posted by oopsmyhalofello

Maybe I should start another post to ask this, but I have thought about the size of the stud dog used for breeding in the past too. I understand the risks involved with complications in breeding a tiny female are entirely different.. but Why is it ok for breeders to use tiny tiny males? They are going to possibly produce tiny tiny puppies that are difficult to find suitable homes for as they need extra care, I never hear anything about the size of the stud though?

i never thought of this this is great you are very intelligent and i agree why do people use tiny stud dogs on bigger females if there not trying to make smaller puppies? But what they don't realize is there making weiner dog yorkies they get the mothers legnth and the father height and you have along tiny dog why would you want to make that?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by nlappegard

i never thought of this this is great you are very intelligent and i agree why do people use tiny stud dogs on bigger females if there not trying to make smaller puppies? But what they don't realize is there making weiner dog yorkies they get the mothers legnth and the father height and you have along tiny dog why would you want to make that?

I've never read about this before, could you tell us more about this? Is there anything written on this, or is this something that you've learned through experience and talking with others?

[bjh]

Originally Posted by nlappegard

i never thought of this this is great you are very intelligent and i agree why do people use tiny stud dogs on bigger females if there not trying to make smaller puppies? But what they don't realize is there making weiner dog yorkies they get the mothers legnth and the father height and you have along tiny dog why would you want to make that?

This has nothing to do with size, it has to do with breeding dogs that have proper conformation. If you breed a long bodied female to a tiny short legged, long bodied male then yes, you can get long bodied short legged dogs, whether they are 3 lbs or 10 lbs. All dogs have faults but when breeding our goal should be to breed those that best conform to the breed standard. You should not breed two dogs that have the same fault because that will not improve the breed.

[nlappegard]

Originally Posted by bjh

This has nothing to do with size, it has to do with breeding dogs that have proper conformation. If you breed a long bodied female to a tiny short legged, long bodied male then yes, you can get long bodied short legged dogs, whether they are 3 lbs or 10 lbs. All dogs have faults but when breeding our goal should be to breed those that best conform to the breed standard. You should not breed two dogs that have the same fault because that will not improve the breed.

I agree with you completely but there is a big difference between a show dog and a tiny little pet. If you would want a show dog you need to go to the experts on show dogs these are high quality dogs that are bred to be show dogs they are bred for temperament quality and competition just think what it takes to be a show dog you travel going show to show on weekends doing the best of your ability to please not only your hander but the judge as well competing with other yorkies that where bred to do the same thing. Your owner and hander she has to have a realionship with the dog for him or her to perform for them this all takes time they have to be groomed just perfect to be shown and when there not being shown there coat has to be well taken care of this is an immense amount of work for both dog and Handler. I know this from exsperiene i was showing dogs for a while these people breed for the standard and to improve the breed for there show dogs. But this is not for everyone to be successful at showing dogs you need a mentor to help you through this. Some show breeders even have people that just breed for them and they choose the dogs they are going to show from these dogs. Being a breeder takes dedication time understanding knowledge it not just throwing 2 dogs together and breeding them it has a lot to do with genetics breeding the two dogs that will match up the best and qualities that will match up with each other. You have to be home all the time to be a breeder and willing to dedicate yourself to your dogs you need to be there by there side when they are having puppies giving them support especially new mothers that have never had puppies before to me when you are breeding dogs as far as size goes if you want to make a quality dog the 2 dogs your breeding need to be correctly matched up according to genetics and size i would never breed a 7-lb dog to a 3 pound dog to get more puppies that will be smaller this would not be correct if you have a 7-lb female she needs to be breeding a 5or 6-lb male to make a nice square dog if you have a 4-lb female she need to breed a 3 or 4 -lb male this i correct to make nice square dogs that are healthy when you breed tiny males to bigger females yes you get some smaller dogs and bigger litters but are those small dogs healthy no they are the runts of the litter the puppies that got the least amount of nutrition inside the mother when you breed according to size and get a healthy litter of 2 or 3 healthy little dogs this correct to me why make tiny yorkies if there not going to be healthy or square. As for flaws nothing is pefect in life people can have 4 healthy beautiful children then have a unfortunate child that is mongilion or lacking something it is the same with dogs you can get a genetic defect that arrises from 12 generations ago this is just the way it is i don't claim to be a show breeder but i do have tiny healthy puppies and i have been very successful in what i do i love my dogs they are my life and they all love me there not on cages they sleep with me and live with me and i dedicate my time to them completely theres not a day that goes by that everyone is not loved on petted combed and cared for in my house and it took me years of exsperience and knowledge to do this i also had a wondeful mentor who had been breeding dogs for 50 years to help me to me this is the key to all of this breeding pets to be carried around in purses dressed up in dresses and bows and being loved is ok to it just depends on how you do this.thats what important to me.

[bjh]

[quote]

Originally Posted by nlappegard

I agree with you completely but there is a big difference between a show dog and a tiny little pet........../QUOTE]

You make some very good points and I agree with most but ideally there should not be these huge differences between show yorkies and pet yorkies. You have spend many years studying the breed and you had a mentor but most people don't do that. Many people think you just buy a male and a female and put them together. Even if I have a perfect little 3 to 4 lbs female and a perfect little 3 or 4 lbs male I still would not breed them because I honestly feel it is too risky. I know some breeders think it is no big deal to just have a c-section but I just don't want to put my females through that if I can prevent it. In 12 years of breeding I have had only 1 c-section and that was a 5 lb female with one big pup in her. I would be curious to know how many c-sections you have had over the years? Have any had a ruptured uterus? I know these things can occur with the bigger females too. I know a lady who's 6 lb female had a prolapsed uterus after delivering pups. She had to take her in to be spayed right after she delivered 8 puppies because the mommas uterus came out with the last pup.

I love my babies also but unfortunately they can't all sleep with me. We have four that sleep with us but the other have to sleep in the living room or the big dog room. From looking at your website you seem to have a lot of dogs, which I see as not problem and long as they are loved and taken care of. I am sure they don't all fit in your bed. Do you have a special dog room too?

[nanahas3]

We just brought home darling little Lolita who was a rescue from breeder. She is not quite 4lbs at the moment and she is SOOOOO tiny. Bless her little heart she has lost a good part of her little teeth but she is still a doll I cannot imagine what our little doll has gone through having babies. God bless Jen and everyone who helped save her from all of this and helped us to give her a forever home where she can be treated as a little queen for the rest of her little life.

[nlappegard]

[quote=bjh;2645702]

You make some very good points and I agree with most but ideally there should not be these huge differences between show yorkies and pet yorkies. You have spend many years studying the breed and you had a mentor but most people don't do that. Many people think you just buy a male and a female and put them together. Even if I have a perfect little 3 to 4 lbs female and a perfect little 3 or 4 lbs male I still would not breed them because I honestly feel it is too risky. I know some breeders think it is no big deal to just have a c-section but I just don't want to put my females through that if I can prevent it. In 12 years of breeding I have had only 1 c-section and that was a 5 lb female with one big pup in her. I would be curious to know how many c-sections you have had over the years? Have any had a ruptured uterus? I know these things can occur with the bigger females too. I know a lady who's 6 lb female had a prolapsed uterus after delivering pups. She had to take her in to be spayed right after she delivered 8 puppies because the mommas uterus came out with the last pup.

I love my babies also but unfortunately they can't all sleep with me. We have four that sleep with us but the other have to sleep in the living room or the big dog room. From looking at your website you seem to have a lot of dogs, which I see as not problem and long as they are loved and taken care of. I am sure they don't all fit in your bed. Do you have a special dog room too?

I only have 15dogs that live with me and they all do sleep with me except the ones that are with there puppies in whelping boxes that are in my room if you look carefully at my website it says this dog lives at Tammy's house etc. this is a lady that helps me raise puppies she is very good. Is a matter fact when i got a dog from StarDust yorkies it had her name on it and another ladies name on the papers and she does this to she has another lady that helps her as well. As for csections i have only had 3 in 25yrs one puppy had itself roled up in a ball and couldn't be born after she had 2 puppies already and the mother did just fine. The one female i found a home for that was 5.8-lbs she did fine but couldn't have her puppies at all and thats why i found her a home on here and one other one i got from the firebrand breeder as a 2yr old female she did fine but i found her a good home as well i don't believe in csections i feel as though if a dog has to have a csection she is not ment to be bred at all unless there is an unusual situation like the puppy that ws roled up in a ball then i skip the mother from having puppies 2x before i ever breed her again because she has to have time to heal and recoperate after a csection i only breed my females once a yr I don't breed them every heat i don't think a dog should have puppies every 6months like they could i think once a yr is enough

[bjh]

[quote=nlappegard;2645783]

Originally Posted by bjh

I only have 15dogs that live with me and they all do sleep with me except the ones that are with there puppies in whelping boxes that are in my room if you look carefully at my website it says this dog lives at Tammy's house etc. this is a lady that helps me raise puppies she is very good. Is a matter fact when i got a dog from StarDust yorkies it had her name on it and another ladies name on the papers and she does this to she has another lady that helps her as well. As for csections i have only had 3 in 25yrs one puppy had itself roled up in a ball and couldn't be born after she had 2 puppies already and the mother did just fine. The one female i found a home for that was 5.8-lbs she did fine but couldn't have her puppies at all and thats why i found her a home on here and one other one i got from the firebrand breeder as a 2yr old female she did fine but i found her a good home as well i don't believe in csections i feel as though if a dog has to have a csection she is not ment to be bred at all unless there is an unusual situation like the puppy that ws roled up in a ball then i skip the mother from having puppies 2x before i ever breed her again because she has to have time to heal and recoperate after a csection i only breed my females once a yr I don't breed them every heat i don't think a dog should have puppies every 6months like they could i think once a yr is enough

Thank you for you honest input. You are very fortunate to have only had 3 c-sections in 25 years. You must have a king sized bed. We just have a queen sized one and I can hardly turn over with 4 in our bed. But, when I think about it, it would not matter how big the bed was, my babies would still want to sleep right up against me.

I still feel that when people seeing others breeding tiny dogs they think it is okay for them to do it. I don't know if you have it on your website or not but maybe a disclaimer stating what your wrote earlier about no one should attempt breeding small yorkies (or average sized ones) unless they have done lots of research and have been mentored. It might make some people stop and think before they do it.

[nlappegard]

I am not telling people to breed 4 -lb females either there are a lot of people who call me that have these little 4-lb dogs and want to breed them and i tell them do you have any idea where she came from whats in her bloodlines or what her back ground is becuase you can't just put 2 little dogs together the genetics have to match as well as the bloodlines i can make a 5 generation pedigree with my puppies i know there back ground and there genetics that is very important as well this is not something that you do over night breeding or just by putting 2 small dogs together you have to do your home work and have exsperience.

[nlappegard]

yes i do have a king size bed but no husband it's just me and my dogs there my life there my best friends they all seem to have there own special spot they sleep in i would be lost with out them

[linda44]

Originally Posted by nlappegard

I agree with you completely but there is a big difference between a show dog and a tiny little pet. If you would want a show dog you need to go to the experts on show dogs these are high quality dogs that are bred to be show dogs they are bred for temperament quality and competition just think what it takes to be a show dog you travel going show to show on weekends doing the best of your ability to please not only your hander but the judge as well competing with other yorkies that where bred to do the same thing. Your owner and hander she has to have a realionship with the dog for him or her to perform for them this all takes time they have to be groomed just perfect to be shown and when there not being shown there coat has to be well taken care of this is an immense amount of work for both dog and Handler. I know this from exsperiene i was showing dogs for a while these people breed for the standard and to improve the breed for there show dogs. But this is not for everyone to be successful at showing dogs you need a mentor to help you through this. Some show breeders even have people that just breed for them and they choose the dogs they are going to show from these dogs. Being a breeder takes dedication time understanding knowledge it not just throwing 2 dogs together and breeding them it has a lot to do with genetics breeding the two dogs that will match up the best and qualities that will match up with each other. You have to be home all the time to be a breeder and willing to dedicate yourself to your dogs you need to be there by there side when they are having puppies giving them support especially new mothers that have never had puppies before to me when you are breeding dogs as far as size goes if you want to make a quality dog the 2 dogs your breeding need to be correctly matched up according to genetics and size i would never breed a 7-lb dog to a 3 pound dog to get more puppies that will be smaller this would not be correct if you have a 7-lb female she needs to be breeding a 5or 6-lb male to make a nice square dog if you have a 4-lb female she need to breed a 3 or 4 -lb male this i correct to make nice square dogs that are healthy when you breed tiny males to bigger females yes you get some smaller dogs and bigger litters but are those small dogs healthy no they are the runts of the litter the puppies that got the least amount of nutrition inside the mother when you breed according to size and get a healthy litter of 2 or 3 healthy little dogs this correct to me why make tiny yorkies if there not going to be healthy or square. As for flaws nothing is pefect in life people can have 4 healthy beautiful children then have a unfortunate child that is mongilion or lacking something it is the same with dogs you can get a genetic defect that arrises from 12 generations ago this is just the way it is i don't claim to be a show breeder but i do have tiny healthy puppies and i have been very successful in what i do i love my dogs they are my life and they all love me there not on cages they sleep with me and live with me and i dedicate my time to them completely theres not a day that goes by that everyone is not loved on petted combed and cared for in my house and it took me years of exsperience and knowledge to do this i also had a wondeful mentor who had been breeding dogs for 50 years to help me to me this is the key to all of this breeding pets to be carried around in purses dressed up in dresses and bows and being loved is ok to it just depends on how you do this.thats what important to me.

I'll be darn. Thats what must of happened to Dakota, you know the male I bought from you 5 yrs ago that was supposed to have champ lines and not be over 5.5 lb. He is close to 11 lbs and has the worse case of food alergies and irritable bowel syndrome youve ever seen. Oh but I forgot, you didnt breed his litter, as advertised he came from JULYN in another state, another owner.

Im sorry. Im in a stinky mood. I should have not even commented if I cant say anything nice but Natalie you sure tell some whoppers.

[nlappegard]

I agree with you completely. I went to the Westminster dog show a few years ago and you wouldn't believe how many yorkie breeders where there with there tiny little yorkie pet on there lap. I had a lady call me and say she would give me any show dog i wanted from her 2 champions for a tiny little female to take to Westminster with her because she wanted one like everyone else had.

[nlappegard]

I'm so sorry this happened to you i sure wish you would have called me about this i'm sure she would have let you keep the dog and replaced it for you. I don't help her sell her puppies anymore but i would be happy to replace your dog for you if he has problems

[linda44]

you know something Natalie, I have to thank you. First it made me feel like an a__ to post that. But the fact that this is the first time you have awknowledged this, is enough for me. Its over. Dakota has his problems, but I love him with all me heart. This is over for me. Linda