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-   Breeder Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/)
-   -   The whole "parti" thing? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/173029-whole-parti-thing.html)

Pruett 06-13-2009 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4lilyorks (Post 2667701)
IABCA will not be switching to the Biewer Terrier standard. They will continue to use the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon standard. The BTCA can hand out titles for the Biewer Terrier but with the IABCA you earn a title for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon so they follow that standard as they do in Germany. Here is the official statement from the IABCA as stated in an email dated 6/13/09.

The Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom pom standard is the officially accepted and followed standard for the IABCA and the Alle Rasse Grupe.
Let me get this straight Stacey. Are you saying that the IABCA will no longer be issuing International titles? He still has the following on his web site.
"IABCA shows are held in accordance with the regulations and guidelines that have been established by UCI".
With that is mind, maybe Jeff hasn't received Mr. Gunter Knoben's latest memo, you think?

I can't imagine after more than 20 years of issuing International Titles through the UCI that they are going to quit.

Breezeaway 06-13-2009 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2667229)
You're right about the coloring not making the Biewer a breed of it's own, and now I see why you Parti people have mixed our Biewer with Yorkies, you think it's a Yorkie.

YOU'RE WRONG about them being Yorkies!!!!! All dogs evolved from the wolf, but that doesn't make them wolves now does it. The Biewer Terrier is a distinct breed of it's own and it's not because of one mutant color gene.

Your Parti Yorkies are not because of one mutant color gene either. Why is it that only the people that have been breeding Yorkies for a the last 3 or 4 years have a bunch of Parti Yorkies and the people that have been breeding for the last 20, 30, 40........ years don't have them. Like I said before, do some DNA parentage profiling on the last 3 or 4 generations of your dogs and then lets see what you have.
My dogs are DNA'd and came from dogs that are DNA'd

4lilyorks 06-13-2009 06:52 PM
According to the IABCA the only thing they received from Gunther was the standard they are using. Since they go to the country of origin for their standards I have been told they will continue to use the standard that is used in Germany. This is not a standard made up by MiKi breeders but the standard they were given by Gunther according to the IABCA.

They will continue to issue international titles for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon.

If you don't agree it is something you will have to take up with the IABCA I am just stating the facts of what they are using and their statement on the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon standard.

Pruett 06-14-2009 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4lilyorks (Post 2668229)
According to the IABCA the only thing they received from Gunther was the standard they are using. Since they go to the country of origin for their standards I have been told they will continue to use the standard that is used in Germany. This is not a standard made up by MiKi breeders but the standard they were given by Gunther according to the IABCA.

They will continue to issue international titles for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon.

If you don't agree it is something you will have to take up with the IABCA I am just stating the facts of what they are using and their statement on the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon standard.
I guess the standard that Gunter sent the IABCA got lost in cyber space. The IABCA can continue issuing titles for the Biewer Yorkshire Terrier a la Pom Pon, that's not the problem, but where does that leave your dogs? Don't you now have Biewer a la Pom Pon's?

I'm not really concerned with the standard being used right now, that will straighten itself out in time. In the mean time, as long as we have Judges that know what the confirmation and structure of a dog should be we'll be ok, and then of course as long as there are Judges that accepted a table presentation others will be ok. We all get our titles at the end of the day and that's what we are there for isn't it?

By the way, when was that email sent? You have always been so good about posting an entire email and this was just a one liner. Thanks

Delightyorkies 06-14-2009 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedToi (Post 2666919)
Many refer to the breed as " Biewer" ( no yorkshire)( no terrier)
We have been breeding Biewer to Biewer from the get go Biewer Breed Club of America
Never allowing the breeding back of any other breeds ( including Yorkshire Terriers)

There are several International Biewer Clubs following Germanys standard.And it's not the BTCA standard.This standard calls for a tri colored head white/Tan black or white /tan blue
( no other head colorations)
Only one Club calls it a " Biewer Terrier" and follows it's own standard *BTCA*........even though they all have the same lines we have.

As for everyone following the same standard......... um we are, with the acception of the "Biewer Terrier Club ( btca)
I don't know where you get your information from ,unfortunately
they are false.The Standard you are referring to, is a standard of the RVD/UCI
Rassehunde Verband Deutschland e.V. that belongs to the United Kennel Clubs International e.V. (UCI).
This Club has absolutely nothing to do with the Union Cynologie International e.V (UCI),President Guenther Knoben,the club that is issuing your International Titles,the club that the IABCA has to abide and the Club that has chosen the BTCA as the only Biewer club to represent them in the USA.They have NEVER used the Standard you are referring to ,nor will they ever.Your standard is most defiantly not considered the original German Standard.
To say that the BTCA has the same lines the BBCA has is again absolutely false,as a matter of fact we have avoided to buy into those problem riddled line you are so proud of.Which might be the reason that none of the Liver shunt puppies born in the USA have been produced by us.

Nancy1999 06-14-2009 12:00 PM
It would be interesting to see the various breed clubs standards and how they differ from each other and the original standard. Are any of the breed clubs saying they use the original standard? I feel that so much of this goes right over the average Yorkietalk readers head. I know I'm lost.

Pruett 06-14-2009 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2669016)
It would be interesting to see the various breed clubs standards and how they differ from each other and the original standard. Are any of the breed clubs saying they use the original standard? I feel that so much of this goes right over the average Yorkietalk readers head. I know I'm lost.
Hi Nancy1999, The standard written by Mr. Biewer was that of a Yorkshire Terrier with the coloring being White/Blue/Gold.
Mr. Biewer died before he was able to perfect the breed and probably would have changed the standard himself to better suit the breed as it developed.

What we do have is the co-originator of the breed that has joined the BTCA and approved the standard that they have put together. Wouldn't you agree that in any business or relationship, if one partner dies, the person living becomes the sole authority? You can see our standard at Biewer Terrier Standard which was revised by Biewer breeders and approved by Mrs. Biewer. The other clubs standard was written by 2 MiKi breeders and never approved by anyone.
Which standard do you think is more appropriate?

The IABCA is under the authority of the UCI, the same club in Germany that the BTCA is a member of and has chosen to represent the Biewer in America.

Snow Yorkies 06-14-2009 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669052)
Hi Nancy1999, .

What we do have is the co-originator of the breed that has joined the BTCA and approved the standard that they have put together. Wouldn't you agree that in any business or relationship, if one partner dies, the person living becomes the sole authority? You can see our standard at Biewer Terrier Standard which was revised by Biewer breeders and approved by Mrs. Biewer.
The IABCA is under the authority of the UCI, the same club in Germany that the BTCA is a member of and has chosen to represent the Biewer in America.
Can you please explain who "they" are that wrote the Biewer Terrier Standard?

Nancy1999 06-14-2009 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669052)
Hi Nancy1999, The standard written by Mr. Biewer was that of a Yorkshire Terrier with the coloring being White/Blue/Gold.
Mr. Biewer died before he was able to perfect the breed and probably would have changed the standard himself to better suit the breed as it developed.

What we do have is the co-originator of the breed that has joined the BTCA and approved the standard that they have put together. Wouldn't you agree that in any business or relationship, if one partner dies, the person living becomes the sole authority? You can see our standard at Biewer Terrier Standard which was revised by Biewer breeders and approved by Mrs. Biewer. The other clubs standard was written by 2 MiKi breeders and never approved by anyone.
Which standard do you think is more appropriate?

The IABCA is under the authority of the UCI, the same club in Germany that the BTCA is a member of and has chosen to represent the Biewer in America.
I have not formed any opinions on the subject, except the Biewer is a very remarkable looking dog. My comment is related to the fact that I don't understand how the standards between the clubs are all that different. From looking at various clubs, I see that some say 7 pounds and under some say 4-8 pounds. That doesn't seem like too much of a difference. Some clubs say two head colors and some say three, again, that doesn't seem like that much of a difference. Some seem to believe in breeding Biewer to Biewer and some seem to believe in breeding Biewer to Yorkshire, that indeed seems like a huge difference, but I don't really know which clubs believe what, and what the German club believes. I think I get all the initials mixed up, and sometimes you all use each other's real names instead of Yorkietalk name without using the quotes feature, and that further confuses me. I really wish there wasn't so much dissention between the various clubs, because I see a lot of questionable Biewers sold with CKC registration and that really bothers me, because I fully understand the ramifications of that.

Pruett 06-14-2009 01:27 PM
There really isn't that much difference in the standards and the only ones having fits over it are the BBCA, and BYTNC/BAPP??. With the help of Mrs. Biewer and a standard committee for the BTCA, we wrote a standard that is uniquely the Biewer Terrier, not a Yorkshire Terrier. We really don't care what standard they use, we just don't like them misleading the public. All we ask is that they tell the truth when educating the public and to state their opinions as such.

The BBCA believes in breeding Biewer to Biewer since it's inception, yet bought a bunch of dogs from Splitters. They feel the Biewer is a Yorkshire Terrier with 3 colors, so no different than what the Parti Yorkie breeders claim.

The BYTNC/BAPP??? breeds Yokies and Biewers which is no more than breeding designer dogs. Sue Williams posted the Mars test results of one of her mix breed dogs, which proved that they are breeding all the Biewer out of the dogs and now have Parti colored Yorkies.

Both of these clubs have changed the name of the dog, yet jump down our throat and say that we changed the name. What makes their change better than ours? One big difference is, Mrs. Biewer approves of our change.

Snow Yorkies 06-14-2009 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669115)
There really isn't that much difference in the standards and the only ones having fits over it are the BBCA, and BYTNC/BAPP??. With the help of Mrs. Biewer and a standard committee for the BTCA, we wrote a standard that is uniquely the Biewer Terrier, not a Yorkshire Terrier. We really don't care what standard they use, we just don't like them misleading the public. All we ask is that they tell the truth when educating the public and to state their opinions as such.

The BBCA believes in breeding Biewer to Biewer since it's inception, yet bought a bunch of dogs from Splitters. They feel the Biewer is a Yorkshire Terrier with 3 colors, so no different than what the Parti Yorkie breeders claim.

The BYTNC/BAPP??? breeds Yokies and Biewers which is no more than breeding designer dogs. Sue Williams posted the Mars test results of one of her mix breed dogs, which proved that they are breeding all the Biewer out of the dogs and now have Parti colored Yorkies.

Both of these clubs have changed the name of the dog, yet jump down our throat and say that we changed the name. What makes their change better than ours? One big difference is, Mrs. Biewer approves of our change.
Why would Mrs. Biewer be involved in writing the standard of the Biewer Terrier?

Nancy1999 06-14-2009 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669115)
There really isn't that much difference in the standards and the only ones having fits over it are the BBCA, and BYTNC/BAPP??. With the help of Mrs. Biewer and a standard committee for the BTCA, we wrote a standard that is uniquely the Biewer Terrier, not a Yorkshire Terrier. We really don't care what standard they use, we just don't like them misleading the public. All we ask is that they tell the truth when educating the public and to state their opinions as such.

The BBCA believes in breeding Biewer to Biewer since it's inception, yet bought a bunch of dogs from Splitters. They feel the Biewer is a Yorkshire Terrier with 3 colors, so no different than what the Parti Yorkie breeders claim.

The BYTNC/BAPP??? breeds Yokies and Biewers which is no more than breeding designer dogs. Sue Williams posted the Mars test results of one of her mix breed dogs, which proved that they are breeding all the Biewer out of the dogs and now have Parti colored Yorkies.

Both of these clubs have changed the name of the dog, yet jump down our throat and say that we changed the name. What makes their change better than ours? One big difference is, Mrs. Biewer approves of our change.

Ok, I understand a little more, there are three main clubs here right? I still don't understand how the other clubs are "misleading the public". I've read this criticism many times, but not how they are misleading. Is it the fact that their standard was not "officially" approved by the German club? Does the BBCA and the BYTNC/BAPP??? believe that their dogs are no different than Parti's, or is that your opinion of what they believe? Not trying to be argumentative, but really would like to understand these difference.

AprilLove 06-14-2009 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2669141)
Ok, I understand a little more, there are three main clubs here right? I still don't understand how the other clubs are "misleading the public". I've read this criticism many times, but not how they are misleading. Is it the fact that their standard was not "officially" approved by the German club? Does the BBCA and the BYTNC/BAPP??? believe that their dogs are no different than Parti's, or is that your opinion of what they believe? Not trying to be argumentative, but really would like to understand these difference.
It is her opinion, Nancy. Most def is not a fact, which she herself quite often admonishes people about.
The below statements are also her opinion and opinion only, not fact:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669115)
There really isn't that much difference in the standards and the only ones having fits over it are the BBCA, and BYTNC/BAPP??. With the help of Mrs. Biewer and a standard committee for the BTCA, we wrote a standard that is uniquely the Biewer Terrier, not a Yorkshire Terrier. We really don't care what standard they use, we just don't like them misleading the public. All we ask is that they tell the truth when educating the public and to state their opinions as such.

The BBCA believes in breeding Biewer to Biewer since it's inception, yet bought a bunch of dogs from Splitters. They feel the Biewer is a Yorkshire Terrier with 3 colors, so no different than what the Parti Yorkie breeders claim.

The BYTNC/BAPP??? breeds Yokies and Biewers which is no more than breeding designer dogs. Sue Williams posted the Mars test results of one of her mix breed dogs, which proved that they are breeding all the Biewer out of the dogs and now have Parti colored Yorkies.

Both of these clubs have changed the name of the dog, yet jump down our throat and say that we changed the name. What makes their change better than ours? One big difference is, Mrs. Biewer approves of our change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruett (Post 2669052)
Hi Nancy1999, The standard written by Mr. Biewer was that of a Yorkshire Terrier with the coloring being White/Blue/Gold.
Mr. Biewer died before he was able to perfect the breed and probably would have changed the standard himself to better suit the breed as it developed.

What we do have is the co-originator of the breed that has joined the BTCA and approved the standard that they have put together. Wouldn't you agree that in any business or relationship, if one partner dies, the person living becomes the sole authority? You can see our standard at Biewer Terrier Standard which was revised by Biewer breeders and approved by Mrs. Biewer. The other clubs standard was written by 2 MiKi breeders and never approved by anyone.
Which standard do you think is more appropriate?

The IABCA is under the authority of the UCI, the same club in Germany that the BTCA is a member of and has chosen to represent the Biewer in America.

Nancy1999 06-14-2009 02:16 PM
Do all the three clubs share the same goal, as to get the Biewer (whatever the name) listed as a separate breed with the AKC? Or do some of the clubs; want the Biewer listed under the Yorkshire Terrier breed, as a variation of color? It seems to me, that a separate breed, would be advantageous in many ways. If they all have the same goal, is the argument about the best way to accomplish this?

Delightyorkies 06-14-2009 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies (Post 2669117)
Why would Mrs. Biewer be involved in writing the standard of the Biewer Terrier?
Maybe for the same reason she became a member of the Biewer TERRIER Club.


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