Any one familiar with Moon Valley Kennel - Page 5 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

blueskies · 04-21-2009, 10:36 AM

[quote=boodarlene;2587451]PLEASE show me 1 post where I sad Valley was a bad breeder. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said the place was clean & the dogs seemed to be well cared for! And yes, I do think she over breeds her dogs. You make me laugh... this messageboard is full of opinions (that's what message boards are for), but the minute you don't agree with something someone says... all hell breaks loose! To "quote" what you said: "you don't have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours". ISN'T THAT EXACTLYWHAT YOU ARE DOING???????? Again... I never sad that she was bad, only that she is over breeding her dogs! That opinion as you call it is a "medical point of view". Did you go to medical school? Do you know from a medical standpoint what happens to the dog's body each & every time she is pregnant? And what happens to her when she is made to become pregnent over & over again so "people" can make money?? How would you feel if you were forced to become pregnant over & over again. Don't you think that would take it's toll on your body? Stop looking at these dogs as money making machines, they are not!
Right now I have 4 yorkies in my house that are rescues, all of them are from bad breeding 3 of them have serious health issues. Of those 3 with issues 2 of them are females that have been over breed! And both of those females are scheduled to have surgery to "REPAIR" the results of that! Breeders who over breed produce dogs with health issues "FACT" and that includes the mother. That unfortunatly, makes it harder for the GOOD breeders "FACT". Medicine is a science, not an opinion. So the next time you want to bash someone for voicing their "opinion" as you call it... keep yours to yourself as well.[/quote]

1) No that is not what I'm doing. I am not calling you "bad," I am saying that you not being objective, and I'm saying that it's not right for you to call out a breeder because her opinion differs from yours.

2) You know nothing about me, and the vets I know (several, by the way) would not be posting on a message board arguing with people over a breeder's choices. Again, you don't know what I know and don't know, and you have no right to assume that.

3) Now you are fishing!

Tell me when I said I looked at dogs as money making machines OR insinuated that at the very least.

4) Again, what is your definition of "over breeding"? Are you talking about females that have been bred every heat from 6 months to 6 years? If so, yes of course they are going to have issues, I mentioned that in a different post and stated that the one thing all good breeders and vets agree on is that they should not be bred every heat for many years. That I believe, that I will agree with. HOWEVER, you mentioned somewhere that I female should be bred at 2-3 years and not bred again for another 2 heats. According to many, that is not healthy either and can cause the female many problems when she is bred again. It is also not healthy to breed for the first time past 3 years, and that is pushing it. Your females are most likely the product of a true puppymill or backyard breeder, breeding every heat starting at their first one and doing it for many years. Well we KNOW that is bad, and I am AGAIN not condoning someone for breeding their females that way. That IS wrong. What I am simply trying to say, as I have mentioned about 5 times now, is that there are varying opinions on how, when, and why a female should be bred, when she should start, stop, and how long to wait in between. I do not think a breeder is irresponsible or over breeds her females as long as she is skipping heats and/or only breeding a few times in a row and retiring early, and doing what is best in the eyes of her and her vet. It is different for every vet, every breeder, and every female dog.

5) Again again again, I am NOT bashing you, I am saying that what you said is not right in calling out this breeder. If you would have made a separate thread stating what your research has been and what are the opinions of others, that would have been accepted and fine. Instead, you posted in a thread that is now making a breeder look bad because of your assumption. That is not right. You are the one getting upset and aggravated over this, I am simply stating my opinion and have not "yelled" or said anything out of line. I think you need to take a deep breath, step back, and rethink your motives here. There is no need to respond to this post with more yelling and pointing of fingers, I have said what I needed to say and I will not have a childish conversation with someone who is always right, blah blah blah. Yes yes we know you research, we know you are passionate about this, does not mean you're right.

blueskies · 04-21-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjh

Can you please educate us on this? What type of surgery, what has to be repaired? Maybe I am just lucky but I have been breeding for 12 years and my females have had very few health issues. In 12 years of breeding I have only had 1 c-section due to a large puppy. I did have one female develop pyometra due to not being bred. Also one female developed a uterus infection after having pups but these are things that can happen with just one breeding. If you skip a female too many time you know that greatly increases their risk of developing pyometra. Breeding takes a lot of hard work and dedication and yes, sometimes the mommas do have problems that cannot be predicted or prevented.

Mystic Mountain · 04-22-2009, 02:25 PM

[QUOTE=bjh;2587810]Can you please educate us on this? What type of surgery, what has to be repaired? Maybe I am just lucky but I have been breeding for 12 years and my females have had very few health issues. In 12 years of breeding I have only had 1 c-section due to a large puppy. I did have one female develop pyometra due to not being bred. Also one female developed a uterus infection after having pups but these are things that can happen with just one breeding. If you skip a female too many time you know that greatly increases their risk of developing pyometra. Breeding takes a lot of hard work and dedication and yes, sometimes the mommas do have problems that cannot be predicted or prevented.[/QUOTE/]

I AGREE show us the facts and figures on your research, tell us about your rescues surgery.

Mystic Mountain · 04-22-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boodarlene

Read the posts... I didn't say I went to UT for school. I said that I was there with a sick dog. And Yes, I do know all about Dr. Tobias research! As a matter of fact she has done surgery on about 11 of the yorkies that have I have rescued.
As far as the dogs who are living in horrific conditions... yes I am and will continue to do something about them. Do you? Have you? If you have knowledge of those type of situations then you should also be doing something to help these animals. After all isn't that how you make your living? I have and will continue to be involved in yorkie rescue. As a matter of fact, I have 4 rescue's living with me now. Maybe that's something you should consider doing as well. There are plenty of yorkies out there who need homes & help. Granted, you won't make any money doing it, as a matter of fact it cost a lot money to put most of these dogs back together!
As far as liver shunts... I'd love to talk to you about that as well. I have a liver shunt dog he also has MVD. He had shunt surgery 6 weeks ago by Dr. Tobias. And yes, he was a rescue that I kept. As you should know, since you seem to be up on the research... not all liver shunt surgery works! Each dog is different! Most dogs do not even show any signs of a liver shunt until they are around 3yrs old. My dog had normal blood work & no signs when I rescued him. 13 months later blood work showed a high spike in ALT & AST. 4 months after that he started getting very sick!

Tell us more about your rescues, what are there names and why they all need surgery, it is hard for me to beleive that 4 out of 4 rescue dogs all have to have surgery or do you only adopt the hardest cases you can find?

Jemma · 04-23-2009, 01:57 PM

Well I don't breed Yorkies however I did breed Goldens. We breeders never ever bred a Golden before 2 years of age. Why? Because if a good breeder is really concerned about any problems like hip dysplasia, don't remember elbows, OFA will not certify your dog until 2 years of age. Preliminary readings don't count. I had a female with a preliminary at 1 year come up OFA good. At her final reading at 2 years she came back borderline. No breeding. I don't believe in a female having 2 heats then breed. IMHO, no dog can be genetically clear until 2 years of age.
Again it is only my opinion and I speak for no one but myself

Nor am I knocking anyone who differs from my opinion. Everyone does what they feel is the best. This is just my way.

lilbumbleybees · 07-10-2009, 02:58 PM

Is Betty a member on YT? This has nothing to do with the newcast or whatever. I heard nothing but good things about her and want to help my yorkie babies' godmomma find a yorkie for herself. I'd love to PM her if she is on here!

Mystic Mountain · 07-11-2009, 05:31 AM

email Betty at jfwomack@bellsouth.net

boodarlene · 07-11-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jemma

Well I don't breed Yorkies however I did breed Goldens. We breeders never ever bred a Golden before 2 years of age. Why? Because if a good breeder is really concerned about any problems like hip dysplasia, don't remember elbows, OFA will not certify your dog until 2 years of age. Preliminary readings don't count. I had a female with a preliminary at 1 year come up OFA good. At her final reading at 2 years she came back borderline. No breeding. I don't believe in a female having 2 heats then breed. IMHO, no dog can be genetically clear until 2 years of age.
Again it is only my opinion and I speak for no one but myself

Nor am I knocking anyone who differs from my opinion. Everyone does what they feel is the best. This is just my way.

AMEN!!!!
Thank you soooo much for saying that. You are 100% right and sound like a VERY responsible breeder. I'm sure your babies are beautiful, healthy & very well adjusted!!

YorkieLover316 · 08-20-2010, 10:00 AM

I dont know why if your new "we can't post your opinion" Steve? Betty may be a great breeder, but even the GREAT Breeders can have problems. AKC means nothing but the fact you register with them. You CAN be a "puppy mill" and STILL be someone who inbreeds and overbreeds their dogs. THIS IS FACT, can you dig up any FACTS that an AKC puppy does NOT come from a PUPPY MILLS? Are you a perfect BREEDER? If you've created the PERFECT K-9 bloodline WITHOUT defects, why aren't you some kind of scientist and start perfecting the human gene. Every breeder has defects. I know of someone you had to pay to fix their puppy (will NOT give names, because you should know your OWN customers) I'm sure you have several. It's not the point, at least you PAID to fix it and your customer was satisfied. Breeders should fix the problem! You seem to be a breeder with a HUGE EGO and have nothing better to do than bash anyone who has a point. Its not your business anyway, or is it? Your not so nice and I STILL believe anyone "puppymill or not, cause MOST breeders even with AKC papers using same parents or siblings" should correct the disorders of puppies purchased from you. Do you feel that just because your kennel is clean and organized and they are AKC, that your not a puppymill? Your a BREEDER right? How many dogs do you have? Are they all loved? Is it possible to care for so many accurately? Who are you?

. Honestly I have nothing better to do but to go further with this. Can you take a break from all your breeders to clearify how AKC BREEDERS have found the perfect gene with NO defects?

Rhetts_mama · 08-20-2010, 11:35 AM

Here we go again with someone pulls up a 2 year old thread on their first post... Things could get interesting. Popcorn anyone?

Dreamer74 · 08-20-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Here we go again with someone pulls up a 2 year old thread on their first post... Things could get interesting. Popcorn anyone?

Yes Please.. Can I have some M&M's with that popcorn

YorkieLover316 · 08-20-2010, 11:54 AM

WOW got your attention! No popcorn for me quick lips, I'm not a fatty. Pls reply to my old post again.

Rhetts_mama · 08-20-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamer74

Yes Please.. Can I have some M&M's with that popcorn

{Passes popcorn to Dreamer} I don't have any M&M's, but I think I may have some milk duds in the cupboard. Will that do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieLover316

WOW got your attention! No popcorn for me quick lips, I'm not a fatty. Pls reply to my old post again.

Just the kind of response I expected.

YorkieLover316 · 08-20-2010, 01:09 PM

Only thing you seem to offer sweetie is "what I expected, nothing of value... well except junkfood",lol. Are you a BREEDER too?Qualified one? or Puppy Mill one? AKC or CKC?

Rhetts_mama · 08-20-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieLover316

Only thing you seem to offer sweetie is "what I expected, nothing of value... well except junkfood",lol. Are you a BREEDER too?Qualified one? or Puppy Mill one? AKC or CKC?

Don't breed, never have, never will. But I'm very good at spotting bull from all the way across the web.

04-21-2009, 10:36 AM	#61
blueskies Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 138	[quote=boodarlene;2587451]PLEASE show me 1 post where I sad Valley was a bad breeder. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said the place was clean & the dogs seemed to be well cared for! And yes, I do think she over breeds her dogs. You make me laugh... this messageboard is full of opinions (that's what message boards are for), but the minute you don't agree with something someone says... all hell breaks loose! To "quote" what you said: "you don't have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours". ISN'T THAT EXACTLYWHAT YOU ARE DOING???????? Again... I never sad that she was bad, only that she is over breeding her dogs! That opinion as you call it is a "medical point of view". Did you go to medical school? Do you know from a medical standpoint what happens to the dog's body each & every time she is pregnant? And what happens to her when she is made to become pregnent over & over again so "people" can make money?? How would you feel if you were forced to become pregnant over & over again. Don't you think that would take it's toll on your body? Stop looking at these dogs as money making machines, they are not! Right now I have 4 yorkies in my house that are rescues, all of them are from bad breeding 3 of them have serious health issues. Of those 3 with issues 2 of them are females that have been over breed! And both of those females are scheduled to have surgery to "REPAIR" the results of that! Breeders who over breed produce dogs with health issues "FACT" and that includes the mother. That unfortunatly, makes it harder for the GOOD breeders "FACT". Medicine is a science, not an opinion. So the next time you want to bash someone for voicing their "opinion" as you call it... keep yours to yourself as well.[/quote] 1) No that is not what I'm doing. I am not calling you "bad," I am saying that you not being objective, and I'm saying that it's not right for you to call out a breeder because her opinion differs from yours. 2) You know nothing about me, and the vets I know (several, by the way) would not be posting on a message board arguing with people over a breeder's choices. Again, you don't know what I know and don't know, and you have no right to assume that. 3) Now you are fishing! Tell me when I said I looked at dogs as money making machines OR insinuated that at the very least. 4) Again, what is your definition of "over breeding"? Are you talking about females that have been bred every heat from 6 months to 6 years? If so, yes of course they are going to have issues, I mentioned that in a different post and stated that the one thing all good breeders and vets agree on is that they should not be bred every heat for many years. That I believe, that I will agree with. HOWEVER, you mentioned somewhere that I female should be bred at 2-3 years and not bred again for another 2 heats. According to many, that is not healthy either and can cause the female many problems when she is bred again. It is also not healthy to breed for the first time past 3 years, and that is pushing it. Your females are most likely the product of a true puppymill or backyard breeder, breeding every heat starting at their first one and doing it for many years. Well we KNOW that is bad, and I am AGAIN not condoning someone for breeding their females that way. That IS wrong. What I am simply trying to say, as I have mentioned about 5 times now, is that there are varying opinions on how, when, and why a female should be bred, when she should start, stop, and how long to wait in between. I do not think a breeder is irresponsible or over breeds her females as long as she is skipping heats and/or only breeding a few times in a row and retiring early, and doing what is best in the eyes of her and her vet. It is different for every vet, every breeder, and every female dog. 5) Again again again, I am NOT bashing you, I am saying that what you said is not right in calling out this breeder. If you would have made a separate thread stating what your research has been and what are the opinions of others, that would have been accepted and fine. Instead, you posted in a thread that is now making a breeder look bad because of your assumption. That is not right. You are the one getting upset and aggravated over this, I am simply stating my opinion and have not "yelled" or said anything out of line. I think you need to take a deep breath, step back, and rethink your motives here. There is no need to respond to this post with more yelling and pointing of fingers, I have said what I needed to say and I will not have a childish conversation with someone who is always right, blah blah blah. Yes yes we know you research, we know you are passionate about this, does not mean you're right. __________________ No longer breeding----Just enjoying my four special Yorks! Mom loves Widget, Ice, Tigger, and Blast

07-10-2009, 02:58 PM	#66
lilbumbleybees YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 1,339	Is Betty a member on YT? This has nothing to do with the newcast or whatever. I heard nothing but good things about her and want to help my yorkie babies' godmomma find a yorkie for herself. I'd love to PM her if she is on here! __________________ Liz Little Lotte , Bouncer, Lilli , Yodi

08-20-2010, 10:00 AM	#69
YorkieLover316 Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2010 Location: knoxville Posts: 14	Gracie kennel I dont know why if your new "we can't post your opinion" Steve? Betty may be a great breeder, but even the GREAT Breeders can have problems. AKC means nothing but the fact you register with them. You CAN be a "puppy mill" and STILL be someone who inbreeds and overbreeds their dogs. THIS IS FACT, can you dig up any FACTS that an AKC puppy does NOT come from a PUPPY MILLS? Are you a perfect BREEDER? If you've created the PERFECT K-9 bloodline WITHOUT defects, why aren't you some kind of scientist and start perfecting the human gene. Every breeder has defects. I know of someone you had to pay to fix their puppy (will NOT give names, because you should know your OWN customers) I'm sure you have several. It's not the point, at least you PAID to fix it and your customer was satisfied. Breeders should fix the problem! You seem to be a breeder with a HUGE EGO and have nothing better to do than bash anyone who has a point. Its not your business anyway, or is it? Your not so nice and I STILL believe anyone "puppymill or not, cause MOST breeders even with AKC papers using same parents or siblings" should correct the disorders of puppies purchased from you. Do you feel that just because your kennel is clean and organized and they are AKC, that your not a puppymill? Your a BREEDER right? How many dogs do you have? Are they all loved? Is it possible to care for so many accurately? Who are you? . Honestly I have nothing better to do but to go further with this. Can you take a break from all your breeders to clearify how AKC BREEDERS have found the perfect gene with NO defects?

08-20-2010, 11:35 AM	#70
Rhetts_mama Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 5,959 Blog Entries: 1	Here we go again with someone pulls up a 2 year old thread on their first post... Things could get interesting. Popcorn anyone? __________________ Don't get your knickers in a knot. Nothing is solved and it just makes you walk funny.

04-22-2009, 02:25 PM	#63
Mystic Mountain CURRENTLY SUSPENDED! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaFollette Posts: 11	[QUOTE=bjh;2587810]Can you please educate us on this? What type of surgery, what has to be repaired? Maybe I am just lucky but I have been breeding for 12 years and my females have had very few health issues. In 12 years of breeding I have only had 1 c-section due to a large puppy. I did have one female develop pyometra due to not being bred. Also one female developed a uterus infection after having pups but these are things that can happen with just one breeding. If you skip a female too many time you know that greatly increases their risk of developing pyometra. Breeding takes a lot of hard work and dedication and yes, sometimes the mommas do have problems that cannot be predicted or prevented.[/QUOTE/] I AGREE show us the facts and figures on your research, tell us about your rescues surgery.

04-23-2009, 01:57 PM	#65
Jemma Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 838	Well I don't breed Yorkies however I did breed Goldens. We breeders never ever bred a Golden before 2 years of age. Why? Because if a good breeder is really concerned about any problems like hip dysplasia, don't remember elbows, OFA will not certify your dog until 2 years of age. Preliminary readings don't count. I had a female with a preliminary at 1 year come up OFA good. At her final reading at 2 years she came back borderline. No breeding. I don't believe in a female having 2 heats then breed. IMHO, no dog can be genetically clear until 2 years of age. Again it is only my opinion and I speak for no one but myself Nor am I knocking anyone who differs from my opinion. Everyone does what they feel is the best. This is just my way.

07-11-2009, 05:31 AM	#67
Mystic Mountain CURRENTLY SUSPENDED! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaFollette Posts: 11	email Betty at jfwomack@bellsouth.net

08-20-2010, 11:54 AM	#72
YorkieLover316 Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2010 Location: knoxville Posts: 14	WOW got your attention! No popcorn for me quick lips, I'm not a fatty. Pls reply to my old post again.

08-20-2010, 01:09 PM	#74
YorkieLover316 Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2010 Location: knoxville Posts: 14	Only thing you seem to offer sweetie is "what I expected, nothing of value... well except junkfood",lol. Are you a BREEDER too?Qualified one? or Puppy Mill one? AKC or CKC?