Any one familiar with Moon Valley Kennel

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Thanks. I am not going to put my female through a lot of breedings. I have had 3 kids, and they were spaced. the first ones were almost 4 years apart, then almost 6 years. I sure didn't want to be pg every 9 mos. and I'm not going to do that to my female. I'm only breeding her 2-3 times!
Then, she is retiring right here with me. LOL Maybe I'm not going to be a good breeder, as I'm not rehoming my females.

You are going to make a good breeder because you have really been doing your homework.

[boodarlene]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Thanks. I am not going to put my female through a lot of breedings. I have had 3 kids, and they were spaced. the first ones were almost 4 years apart, then almost 6 years. I sure didn't want to be pg every 9 mos. and I'm not going to do that to my female. I'm only breeding her 2-3 times!
Then, she is retiring right here with me. LOL Maybe I'm not going to be a good breeder, as I'm not rehoming my females.

I'm sure you already know this but, your female is going to need extra everything. Check with your vet to see exactly how many extra calories she should have. I don't know her size & weight. Also... she will need that the whole time she is feeding those babies. I would also recommend having an exam before you breed her with a complete blood panel. Good luck!

[blueskies]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

You are right... the choice is up to the breeder. And there are more & more breeders that are just into mass production. Where's the quality in that?? There isn't any. With that being said if a buyer asks for that information so that he/she can make an informed choice about the purchase... the breeder should provide it!!! If he/she is doing the right thing by these dogs, then it shouldn't be a problem.

These other vets that you are speaking of... are the specialists in Fetal Development & Congenital Defects In Dogs? How old is the research they are referring to? I do this all day every day, and your right there is a fine line between what breeders & doctors think is ethical and safe. I have seen way to many dogs have to be put back together because they have been breed to many times. Some of them didn't make it! And believe me when I tell you it isn't pretty. It's very sad!! They trust their owners to do what is right for them, because they can't speak for themselves. Think about it would you want to give birth to a baby and then months later be forced to get pregnant again? The dog's body needs time to heal.

I am certainly not advocating breeding a dog every heat for many years, as I said before if you read carefully, and I am also not saying which of these options I personally agree with, because that's not the point. The point is that there are different opinions about how a female should be bred comfortably. Just because you have done research does not make you right. It does not make the other vets with conflicting opinions right either. There will never really be any way to pinpoint a "perfect" way to breed your dogs, because everyone is always going to have an opinion.

However, that is not really the point of this entire thread. My purpose of posting was mainly to say that you are out of line. You have a right to your opinion and to write paper after paper on your thoughts and have them published, but you DO NOT have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours. That is the point I was trying to make.

[blueskies]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Sorry, but, in my lifetime, I've NEVER heard a vet say anything other than two ways.
1) breed every other heat
2) breed two straight then skip.
I am going to start breeding, and one thing I won't do is breed every heat for 3 or 4 times. You go have a baby every 9 mos for 4 times straight, I couldn't do it and I sure wont' expect my female to do it either. To me, that sounds like someone only wantint to breed for the almighty dollars

Again, I did not say that this is my personal opinion about what a dog should or should not go through. I merely mentioned that fact because I wanted to point out that opinions vary and that just because the poster thinks that his/her way is the right way, doesn't make it true. There are always going to be many opinions on breeding and it isn't right (unless of course it is obvious that a breeder is not keeping his/her dogs in humane conditions without regular vet care) to call a breeder out based on her choices. Unless you can prove that the breeder is harming her dogs and is not providing proper care for them, you have no right to come on here and say what was said.

[blueskies]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

the latest research going around at seminars for breeders is saying start breeding on the second heat and breed every heat until they quit. That they will know when to quit. I would never do that tho.

Exactly, another opinion. I'm sure the advocates for this are certain this is the right way to do things.

[blueskies]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Thanks. I am not going to put my female through a lot of breedings. I have had 3 kids, and they were spaced. the first ones were almost 4 years apart, then almost 6 years. I sure didn't want to be pg every 9 mos. and I'm not going to do that to my female. I'm only breeding her 2-3 times!
Then, she is retiring right here with me. LOL Maybe I'm not going to be a good breeder, as I'm not rehoming my females.

You do sound like you will make an excellent breeder. Sometimes it is the most difficult to rehome a female that you know needs extra attention and would get it in a new place. Those are the most difficult choices for me to make, but every decision is based on what is best for the dog. Breeding is not an easy task, there is more heartbreak than good times, but the good times sure make up for the bad.

Remember though, a dog's body is very different from a human's in many ways, but again, that is only my opinion.

[urbnalbino]

Hello Everyone,
This is Betty. Rachel's Mom. Owner and Operator of Moon Valley Kennel. I don't get on Yorkie Talk only because I stay so darn busy. I usually just ask Rachel to reply if and when necessary. I am going to say a few things about me and about this nonsense that has been started. Then I'm going to back off. I'm not getting into a battle with anyone. First of all, in all my years of being a breeder I have found that you just can't keep everyone happy. Also there is no such word as breeded. Not to my knowledge. I did take English 101 and passed with flying colors. I have had a few customers that were unhappy with their pup for whatever reason. Each individual situation was evaluated and based on all the info and facts was acted upon. Most people were happy with the outcome. Some folks just want something for nothing and no matter what you do it won't make them happy. Most are super great folks and I have made so many good friends along the way. Way to many to count. I love what I do and I try to do the right thing. I have found over the years when you do something that is not right that God has a way of "yelling at you" if you know what I mean. I have invested heavily in my kennels and in my lines. I have a lot of champion lines that I have been building on. FYI I paid thousands of dollars for a female so I could pass her good lines onto my customers. I paid thousands of dollars for several of my males and other girls to get super good pedigrees. When I went to other kennels to purchase their dogs, (Atlanta, Indiana,Sweetwater,etc.) I never once asked them about their breeding practices. Why? Because I didn't feel like it was my business. I would ask things like how big the parents are, what size litters the dam's throw, ask about guarantee's, ask about luxating patellas (hope I spelled that right), expected size the pup would turn out to be as an adult. Sometimes we would talk about what types of medicines you use for this or that. Every breeder that I have purchased from I would go back to with just a few reservations. I know as a breeder that everyone dosn't hold the same breeding style as me. That's ok. I won't judge anyone for that. I think you are smart enough to have your own breeding program, small or large and manage it the way you want to. That's the American way. Just so long as your pets are well cared for. Now, just who gets to say what is the best way for that is beyond me. I don't think it is some so called Vet that won't identify themselves. No, last time I heard they didn't pay my quarterly taxes, my paycheck or file my tax return at the end of the year and they "ain't my mama. Putting the smart alec stuff aside, ma'am it is not your business how I operate anything in my kennel. When you get your own kennel or vet's practice or anything else you can call your own, you can call the shots. Don't preach to me about how you think I should operate mine especially when frankly you have no idea how I operate mine. Now, as far as my breeding practices. I have nothing to hide but I don't discuss my business with other folks because it is noyb. I didn't tell you the size and color of my underpants when you supposedly came to my home.Not because I had anything to hide but because it was none of your business. I don't breed my dogs every heat.If I did, it is still none of your business. And just because I would not have a conversation with you concerning that you post a blog saying I breed back to back.Liar, liar, pants on fire. Hang your clothes on a telephone wire. And yes, I just called you a liar. All I can do is shake my head thinking something best not put in words right now. You say you would never buy a dog from me. I am so happy that you won't. You must be so busy with your studies on all the bad things that happen to "overbreeded" dogs that you obviously wouldn't have time for them anyway. If your friend bought two dogs from me and had problems she should have contacted me. Not you. Do you make a habit of sticking your nose in other people's business a lot? Really, do you? No, I really want to know. Or is it just me that you figured you'd start with? Just how much do you know about the liver shunts? Do you even know the medical terminology for it? If you knew very much you would know that Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee where you supposedly went to Vet school perfected the surgery on the liver shunts. Then she took it a step further and bred liver shunt corrected dogs with each other to see if they produced higher incident rates of the liver shunts. They didn't. Which leads educated people to know that it is hit and miss. Not necessarily hereditary. If your friend had contacted me I would have dealt with her concerning the issue. She can still contact me. But not you. It is none of your business. I don't usually take issue like this but Yorkie talk is all over and there are a lot of good people that get on here. You folks that said positive things, Thank you. I will not reply to anymore issues arising from my reply here. Miss vet turned friend advocate and champion of all the overbreeded dogs in America knows everything and dosn't need anymore feedback from me. All other questions from anyone but Doctor KNOW IT ALL are welcome. By the way, Doctor KNOW IT ALL: There are several breeders that I know of that need to be shut down. They make their dogs live in horrific conditions. Are you interested in doing something about that? I didn't think so. Something that really matters? Hope I don't sound to condescending. I work too hard at what I do to not at least reply to this. Thank again, Betty

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

You are going to make a good breeder because you have really been doing your homework.

Thanks, but, I haven't even started my homework yet. I just know what I want and what kind of breeder I want to be.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

I'm sure you already know this but, your female is going to need extra everything. Check with your vet to see exactly how many extra calories she should have. I don't know her size & weight. Also... she will need that the whole time she is feeding those babies. I would also recommend having an exam before you breed her with a complete blood panel. Good luck!

Yep, I already know about giving extra calories, puppy food, and tums after the babies are born. I also am 10 min. away from my vet(or less). I don't know what her weight is, as I don't get my pup until May 9th. The breeder is entering her in to the show in Florida the first week in May(GO ALLIE). She was born Dec. 31st, so I have awhile yet to go.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by blueskies

You do sound like you will make an excellent breeder. Sometimes it is the most difficult to rehome a female that you know needs extra attention and would get it in a new place. Those are the most difficult choices for me to make, but every decision is based on what is best for the dog. Breeding is not an easy task, there is more heartbreak than good times, but the good times sure make up for the bad.

Remember though, a dog's body is very different from a human's in many ways, but again, that is only my opinion.

My hubby already knows my girl won't go anywhere. My sister bred, she now has 7 dogs, as she just couldn't part with some of the pups and she still has the moms too. Needless to say, she didn't breed very long, just like I probably won't, as I just don't think I'm going to be able to let my pups go

[Mystic Mountain]

Let me just say I have purchased 3 Yorkies from Betty at Moon Valley Kennel and each one of them is the picture of health. I have not had a problem with any of them. Betty has been a big help in my own breeding program not afraid to hand out tips and tricks in running my kennel more efficently. Along with the best ways to care for my Yorkies. She has also saved me alot of money on purchase's for my Yorkies as she has tried almost every product out there and can tell you which are the best to buy.

[boodarlene]

Originally Posted by blueskies

I am certainly not advocating breeding a dog every heat for many years, as I said before if you read carefully, and I am also not saying which of these options I personally agree with, because that's not the point. The point is that there are different opinions about how a female should be bred comfortably. Just because you have done research does not make you right. It does not make the other vets with conflicting opinions right either. There will never really be any way to pinpoint a "perfect" way to breed your dogs, because everyone is always going to have an opinion.

However, that is not really the point of this entire thread. My purpose of posting was mainly to say that you are out of line. You have a right to your opinion and to write paper after paper on your thoughts and have them published, but you DO NOT have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours. That is the point I was trying to make.

PLEASE show me 1 post where I sad Valley was a bad breeder. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said the place was clean & the dogs seemed to be well cared for! And yes, I do think she over breeds her dogs. You make me laugh... this messageboard is full of opinions (that's what message boards are for), but the minute you don't agree with something someone says... all hell breaks loose! To "quote" what you said: "you don't have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours". ISN'T THAT EXACTLYWHAT YOU ARE DOING???????? Again... I never sad that she was bad, only that she is over breeding her dogs! That opinion as you call it is a "medical point of view". Did you go to medical school? Do you know from a medical standpoint what happens to the dog's body each & every time she is pregnant? And what happens to her when she is made to become pregnent over & over again so "people" can make money?? How would you feel if you were forced to become pregnant over & over again. Don't you think that would take it's toll on your body? Stop looking at these dogs as money making machines, they are not!
Right now I have 4 yorkies in my house that are rescues, all of them are from bad breeding 3 of them have serious health issues. Of those 3 with issues 2 of them are females that have been over breed! And both of those females are scheduled to have surgery to "REPAIR" the results of that! Breeders who over breed produce dogs with health issues "FACT" and that includes the mother. That unfortunatly, makes it harder for the GOOD breeders "FACT". Medicine is a science, not an opinion. So the next time you want to bash someone for voicing their "opinion" as you call it... keep yours to yourself as well.

[boodarlene]

Originally Posted by phfgkl

Yep, I already know about giving extra calories, puppy food, and tums after the babies are born. I also am 10 min. away from my vet(or less). I don't know what her weight is, as I don't get my pup until May 9th. The breeder is entering her in to the show in Florida the first week in May(GO ALLIE). She was born Dec. 31st, so I have awhile yet to go.

I hope Allie does well!! I also have an Allie, except I spell it Ali. Homework is key to being a good breeder and I can see you are doing yours!! Congrats... your going to make a great one!!

[boodarlene]

Originally Posted by urbnalbino

Hello Everyone,
This is Betty. Rachel's Mom. Owner and Operator of Moon Valley Kennel. I don't get on Yorkie Talk only because I stay so darn busy. I usually just ask Rachel to reply if and when necessary. I am going to say a few things about me and about this nonsense that has been started. Then I'm going to back off. I'm not getting into a battle with anyone. First of all, in all my years of being a breeder I have found that you just can't keep everyone happy. Also there is no such word as breeded. Not to my knowledge. I did take English 101 and passed with flying colors. I have had a few customers that were unhappy with their pup for whatever reason. Each individual situation was evaluated and based on all the info and facts was acted upon. Most people were happy with the outcome. Some folks just want something for nothing and no matter what you do it won't make them happy. Most are super great folks and I have made so many good friends along the way. Way to many to count. I love what I do and I try to do the right thing. I have found over the years when you do something that is not right that God has a way of "yelling at you" if you know what I mean. I have invested heavily in my kennels and in my lines. I have a lot of champion lines that I have been building on. FYI I paid thousands of dollars for a female so I could pass her good lines onto my customers. I paid thousands of dollars for several of my males and other girls to get super good pedigrees. When I went to other kennels to purchase their dogs, (Atlanta, Indiana,Sweetwater,etc.) I never once asked them about their breeding practices. Why? Because I didn't feel like it was my business. I would ask things like how big the parents are, what size litters the dam's throw, ask about guarantee's, ask about luxating patellas (hope I spelled that right), expected size the pup would turn out to be as an adult. Sometimes we would talk about what types of medicines you use for this or that. Every breeder that I have purchased from I would go back to with just a few reservations. I know as a breeder that everyone dosn't hold the same breeding style as me. That's ok. I won't judge anyone for that. I think you are smart enough to have your own breeding program, small or large and manage it the way you want to. That's the American way. Just so long as your pets are well cared for. Now, just who gets to say what is the best way for that is beyond me. I don't think it is some so called Vet that won't identify themselves. No, last time I heard they didn't pay my quarterly taxes, my paycheck or file my tax return at the end of the year and they "ain't my mama. Putting the smart alec stuff aside, ma'am it is not your business how I operate anything in my kennel. When you get your own kennel or vet's practice or anything else you can call your own, you can call the shots. Don't preach to me about how you think I should operate mine especially when frankly you have no idea how I operate mine. Now, as far as my breeding practices. I have nothing to hide but I don't discuss my business with other folks because it is noyb. I didn't tell you the size and color of my underpants when you supposedly came to my home.Not because I had anything to hide but because it was none of your business. I don't breed my dogs every heat.If I did, it is still none of your business. And just because I would not have a conversation with you concerning that you post a blog saying I breed back to back.Liar, liar, pants on fire. Hang your clothes on a telephone wire. And yes, I just called you a liar. All I can do is shake my head thinking something best not put in words right now. You say you would never buy a dog from me. I am so happy that you won't. You must be so busy with your studies on all the bad things that happen to "overbreeded" dogs that you obviously wouldn't have time for them anyway. If your friend bought two dogs from me and had problems she should have contacted me. Not you. Do you make a habit of sticking your nose in other people's business a lot? Really, do you? No, I really want to know. Or is it just me that you figured you'd start with? Just how much do you know about the liver shunts? Do you even know the medical terminology for it? If you knew very much you would know that Dr. Tobias at the University of Tennessee where you supposedly went to Vet school perfected the surgery on the liver shunts. Then she took it a step further and bred liver shunt corrected dogs with each other to see if they produced higher incident rates of the liver shunts. They didn't. Which leads educated people to know that it is hit and miss. Not necessarily hereditary. If your friend had contacted me I would have dealt with her concerning the issue. She can still contact me. But not you. It is none of your business. I don't usually take issue like this but Yorkie talk is all over and there are a lot of good people that get on here. You folks that said positive things, Thank you. I will not reply to anymore issues arising from my reply here. Miss vet turned friend advocate and champion of all the overbreeded dogs in America knows everything and dosn't need anymore feedback from me. All other questions from anyone but Doctor KNOW IT ALL are welcome. By the way, Doctor KNOW IT ALL: There are several breeders that I know of that need to be shut down. They make their dogs live in horrific conditions. Are you interested in doing something about that? I didn't think so. Something that really matters? Hope I don't sound to condescending. I work too hard at what I do to not at least reply to this. Thank again, Betty

Read the posts... I didn't say I went to UT for school. I said that I was there with a sick dog. And Yes, I do know all about Dr. Tobias research! As a matter of fact she has done surgery on about 11 of the yorkies that have I have rescued.
As far as the dogs who are living in horrific conditions... yes I am and will continue to do something about them. Do you? Have you? If you have knowledge of those type of situations then you should also be doing something to help these animals. After all isn't that how you make your living? I have and will continue to be involved in yorkie rescue. As a matter of fact, I have 4 rescue's living with me now. Maybe that's something you should consider doing as well. There are plenty of yorkies out there who need homes & help. Granted, you won't make any money doing it, as a matter of fact it cost a lot money to put most of these dogs back together!
As far as liver shunts... I'd love to talk to you about that as well. I have a liver shunt dog he also has MVD. He had shunt surgery 6 weeks ago by Dr. Tobias. And yes, he was a rescue that I kept. As you should know, since you seem to be up on the research... not all liver shunt surgery works! Each dog is different! Most dogs do not even show any signs of a liver shunt until they are around 3yrs old. My dog had normal blood work & no signs when I rescued him. 13 months later blood work showed a high spike in ALT & AST. 4 months after that he started getting very sick!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by boodarlene

PLEASE show me 1 post where I sad Valley was a bad breeder. You people need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said the place was clean & the dogs seemed to be well cared for! And yes, I do think she over breeds her dogs. You make me laugh... this messageboard is full of opinions (that's what message boards are for), but the minute you don't agree with something someone says... all hell breaks loose! To "quote" what you said: "you don't have the right to call someone a bad breeder because their opinion differs from yours". ISN'T THAT EXACTLYWHAT YOU ARE DOING???????? Again... I never sad that she was bad, only that she is over breeding her dogs! That opinion as you call it is a "medical point of view". Did you go to medical school? Do you know from a medical standpoint what happens to the dog's body each & every time she is pregnant? And what happens to her when she is made to become pregnent over & over again so "people" can make money?? How would you feel if you were forced to become pregnant over & over again. Don't you think that would take it's toll on your body? Stop looking at these dogs as money making machines, they are not!
Right now I have 4 yorkies in my house that are rescues, all of them are from bad breeding 3 of them have serious health issues. Of those 3 with issues 2 of them are females that have been over breed! And both of those females are scheduled to have surgery to "REPAIR" the results of that! Breeders who over breed produce dogs with health issues "FACT" and that includes the mother. That unfortunatly, makes it harder for the GOOD breeders "FACT". Medicine is a science, not an opinion. So the next time you want to bash someone for voicing their "opinion" as you call it... keep yours to yourself as well.

Can you please educate us on this? What type of surgery, what has to be repaired? Maybe I am just lucky but I have been breeding for 12 years and my females have had very few health issues. In 12 years of breeding I have only had 1 c-section due to a large puppy. I did have one female develop pyometra due to not being bred. Also one female developed a uterus infection after having pups but these are things that can happen with just one breeding. If you skip a female too many time you know that greatly increases their risk of developing pyometra. Breeding takes a lot of hard work and dedication and yes, sometimes the mommas do have problems that cannot be predicted or prevented.