I Am Thinking Of Breeding

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by diva pup

Kim,What is with your obvious contempt for the YTCA and what they stand for and the standard? It is wearing a little thin, nobody can say anything about the standard or the YTCA without you coming back with this yorkie law crap.
What standards are you adhering to anyway? You don't breed, you buy pets.

If you read the the entire thread, you would understand my point of view as I made it very clear.

I can have "standards" as a purchaser representing the characterisitics that I like and what I look for. You don't have to be breeder to have characterisitics you prefer over others.

[alpayton]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If you read the the entire thread, you would understand my point of view as I made it very clear.

I can have "standards" as a purchaser representing the characterisitics that I like and what I look for. You don't have to be breeder to have characterisitics you prefer over others.

So basically you're playing on the words then. You speak of "standard" as what YOU will accept as faults for your pet. The rest of us have been speaking in terms of the "standard" as the ideal for the yorkie as the YTCA and the AKC have set.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by alpayton

So basically you're playing on the words then. You speak of "standard" as what YOU will accept as faults for your pet. The rest of us have been speaking in terms of the "standard" as the ideal for the yorkie as the YTCA and the AKC have set.

Did you read the entire thread?

I have said throughout that the "breed standard" as defined by the YTCA is simply an arbitrary guidleine set up by a club or hobbyists who have decided what THEIR ideal yorkie is. I am not amember of the club and no one else here is either so we can all set up whatever "standards" we want depending in what is important to us. We may use some of theirs and we may decline some of theirs.

For example, I think tail docking is cruel and should be banned so it is not part of my ideal standard for the yorkie. I like yorkies of different colors so my standard wouldn't discriminate against chocolates and partis as the YTCA one does, etc....

If you do not plan on showing your yorkie the YTCA standards are not controlling.

[iluvyorkies]

Hi Wolftrap,
I had a similar situation. I bought a beautiful female puppy who had a perfect bite. . until about 6 months of age. It changed overnight. I kept hoping that the lower jaw just had a growth spurt, but it never corrected. I had wanted to breed her and felt conflicted. I finally decided that I should have her spayed and not perpetuate the flaw. I decided to look at the overall quality of the breed instead of my love for the dog. As it turned out I am glad that I made that decision. This dog has become more aggressive after turning about 15 months. The poor breeding techniques spilled over into her temperment. If the breeders were not careful about the bite it is unlikely they were careful about other aspects of the parents. I hope this helps. I love my yorkie, under bite, bitchey and all, but in the end I am glad I made the decision that I have. We all need more than one yorkie. If I decide to breed it will be with a show quality dog. I feel that I have to protect the integrity of the breed--what made the yorkies so special to begin with. We shouldn't veer from that objective.
Iluvyorkies

[alpayton]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Did you read the entire thread?

Yep, sure did. Don't you dare try to turn this on me. You're the one wanting to play on words thru this whole thing. Why you seem to feel it necessary to bring up things that this thread doesn't deal with is beyond me. This thread was started by a person who wanted to know whether or not their yorkie should be bred based on the fact that their yorkie has an underbite. Nowhere in their question did I see the words "tail docking" or "different color" or even anything at all about THE standard (not THEIR standard as you seem to want to put it). You seem to want to ignore the fact that there IS a standard. The standard is the standard for numerous reasons. I'm sorry that you don't feel the need to understand what those reasons are. You must be above the standard. Pity me.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by alpayton

Yep, sure did. Don't you dare try to turn this on me. You're the one wanting to play on words thru this whole thing. Why you seem to feel it necessary to bring up things that this thread doesn't deal with is beyond me. This thread was started by a person who wanted to know whether or not their yorkie should be bred based on the fact that their yorkie has an underbite. Nowhere in their question did I see the words "tail docking" or "different color" or even anything at all about THE standard (not THEIR standard as you seem to want to put it). You seem to want to ignore the fact that there IS a standard. The standard is the standard for numerous reasons. I'm sorry that you don't feel the need to understand what those reasons are. You must be above the standard. Pity me.

You are not "getting it". I have never "played on words". I have explained myself clearly throughout and it is all very logical. There is no way I can be above or below or even with the "standard" you refer to because I do not believe in it. I believe differently is all.

I have stayed on topic the entire time. This member is being told that the only reason to breed is to perfect the breed according to the YTCA breed standard which doesn't like even "slight" underbites, so I was merely pointing out that the YTCA standard isn't everyone's idea of the ideal yorkie, and if the underbite is not severe and will not be life altering and her vet encourages the breeding then she feel comfortable with her decision to breed her dog. She has been responsible and done her research. She will not be a bad breeder just because she chooses to breed dogs which would not win in a YTCA dog show.

That's all.

[Olivier]

If peoples want Yorkies with underbite , why are they always looking for reputable breeders ? If it is only for health guarantee , they are out of the track.

What is so bad with breeders that shows their dogs ?

A reputation is so hard to build but so easy to destroy .

[Yorkie_Mama]

Originally Posted by Olivier

If peoples want Yorkies with underbite , why are they always looking for reputable breeders ? If it is only for health guarantee , they are out of the track.

What is so bad with breeders that shows their dogs ?

A reputation is so hard to build but so easy to destroy .

I have to agree i think mistakes happen. but most show people want to do best by the breed out of love of the breed
i raise a rare breed called toy australian shepherds and the only reason to breed in my book is to improve the breed
people call me all the time asking why do you charge 1500 while others charge 500 to 700 i have to go over the 3 year wait i give each dog bitch and stud to make shure there are no missed lineage signs of seisures two hip checks 12 months apart Cerf test to check eyes Genitic balancing act correct choices in color of dam and sire and still they buy the 500 dollar puppy and cry when it go's blind and deaf. when you choose to buy the puppie with the mother that has a not quite right bite what else has that breeder skimped on ... what can you not see. to be a responsible breeder i must have ample time for my kids and be willing to do right by the breed if that means i fix a stud i paid 2500 dollars for and find him a pet home thats a price i pay. so many people think breeding is great income ...perhaps for my vet but thats about it ! ask a breeder that has a program you respect what it takes to be that do you have the time the overhead income and the ability to know what is breed quality.

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by Wolftrap

No I do not have experience breeding but like everyone else I have to start somewhere. I have done a lot of research and before I even make a decision I am going to do PLENTY of more research before I subject my baby to this. I would not go into this blindly or take it lightly if this is what I decided to do. I have spoken to more than one vet that has said they did not see a problem with her being bred and I have asked a TON of questions. I have also been told by others that she would be good to breed because of her temperment. She is the sweetest most friendly dog and catches on to everything very quickly. I had NO problems training her at all as I know some say the breed is hard to train and from reading on here and meeting people with yorkies there are some that have 2 year olds that are still not trained. She is playful and is not afraid of strangers or other dogs

Because a dog has wonderful temperment does not mean that you should breed it. Yes we want loving happy temperments in this breed but we aslo want dogs that are physically sound.

My 27 year old daughter has wonderful temperment. Do I want her to have chidren no- will she no. She has a physicall- genetic disorder called sticklers syndrome. ( all three of my children have this disorder) WE did not know that I was a carrier and my husband.

I have three beautiful kids who suffer from blindness-deafness, severe learning disorders-joint pain-(joints fall out of the sockets causing evtreme pain) they have had shoulders, hips, knees, ankle, wrist, elbow, back, kidney,
brain, eyes, ears and numerous other surguries because of genetics. They all have wonderful temperment all will pass their health issues on to their children- so should they have biological children- NO WAY IN HELL. I love my kids and live with the pain everyday of what we did not know- how things might have been different for them. The eldest is not married- doubt if she will ever find someome who has enough love to take her with all her health issues. The other two are going down the same road.

When you breed a dog/bitch that has health issues that can affect the puppies you are responsible for any pain that you have caused the breed and the unlucky people who buy those dogs. Temperment is not the reason why you breed your dog.

But then who cares- if you end up breeding a bunch of unsound puppies the new owners can struggle with the problems- if too much to handle - place them in rescue- put them down- or give them to a puppy mill who can really breed that defect like crazy. Wow we really helped our breed. Not every dog or bitch it intended to be bred.

Glad that I try and keep my pet puppies long enough to spay and neuter. And people wonder why the show breeders can be cold or distant- you get tired of beating your head against the wall.

Why bother to post that you want help or information. You have made up your mind what of what you are going to do. You don't care about the breed, your dog, the puppies that you will produce and the folks who will buy the problems that you are so proudly creating.

[Olivier]

I am glad too that I can keep my pet quality pups and have them spayed and neutered before leaving my home . This way there is no argument about breeding . Actually , I have a little girl that I am keeping for showing , her sisters will be spayed .

[diva pup]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If you read the the entire thread, you would understand my point of view as I made it very clear.

I can have "standards" as a purchaser representing the characterisitics that I like and what I look for. You don't have to be breeder to have characterisitics you prefer over others.

Really Kim? Then enlighten me, what exactly are you looking for in YOUR ideal of the perfect yorkie? Temperment? You bought one of your dogs over the internet, so that wasn't it. Color? Size? Service dog potential? I am really unclear as to what about the yorkie breed attracted you.
And I did read the whole thread, but you muddied up the original question to make it be about the YTCA, again.

[Diego]

Reading all these posts , I am really glad that I don't think about breeding my girls . Of course , I know they are beauties but never wanted to have pups out of them . I really enjoy having them home with me .

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

You are not "getting it". I have never "played on words". I have explained myself clearly throughout and it is all very logical. There is no way I can be above or below or even with the "standard" you refer to because I do not believe in it. I believe differently is all.

I have stayed on topic the entire time. This member is being told that the only reason to breed is to perfect the breed according to the YTCA breed standard which doesn't like even "slight" underbites, so I was merely pointing out that the YTCA standard isn't everyone's idea of the ideal yorkie, and if the underbite is not severe and will not be life altering and her vet encourages the breeding then she feel comfortable with her decision to breed her dog. She has been responsible and done her research. She will not be a bad breeder just because she chooses to breed dogs which would not win in a YTCA dog show.

That's all.

Okay. You are being irresponsible advising/encouraging someone to breed a dog with a serious fault. Stop it.

The breed standard exists to maintain breed type. It exists to assure that Yorkies continue to look and act like Yorkies. This is America and if you want to go your own way and breed dogs that don't conform to the standard - go for it. It's just that at a certain point, the puppies you are producing can no longer be called Yorkies. But it is irresponsible to breed an animal with a serious fault like a bad bite. It contributes to the deterioration of the health in the future. It should not be done.

CJ

[Snow Yorkies]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

Because a dog has wonderful temperment does not mean that you should breed it. Yes we want loving happy temperments in this breed but we aslo want dogs that are physically sound.

My 27 year old daughter has wonderful temperment. Do I want her to have chidren no- will she no. She has a physicall- genetic disorder called sticklers syndrome. ( all three of my children have this disorder) WE did not know that I was a carrier and my husband.

I have three beautiful kids who suffer from blindness-deafness, severe learning disorders-joint pain-(joints fall out of the sockets causing evtreme pain) they have had shoulders, hips, knees, ankle, wrist, elbow, back, kidney,
brain, eyes, ears and numerous other surguries because of genetics. They all have wonderful temperment all will pass their health issues on to their children- so should they have biological children- NO WAY IN HELL. I love my kids and live with the pain everyday of what we did not know- how things might have been different for them. The eldest is not married- doubt if she will ever find someome who has enough love to take her with all her health issues. The other two are going down the same road.

When you breed a dog/bitch that has health issues that can affect the puppies you are responsible for any pain that you have caused the breed and the unlucky people who buy those dogs. Temperment is not the reason why you breed your dog.

But then who cares- if you end up breeding a bunch of unsound puppies the new owners can struggle with the problems- if too much to handle - place them in rescue- put them down- or give them to a puppy mill who can really breed that defect like crazy. Wow we really helped our breed. Not every dog or bitch it intended to be bred.

Glad that I try and keep my pet puppies long enough to spay and neuter. And people wonder why the show breeders can be cold or distant- you get tired of beating your head against the wall.

Why bother to post that you want help or information. You have made up your mind what of what you are going to do. You don't care about the breed, your dog, the puppies that you will produce and the folks who will buy the problems that you are so proudly creating.

Kathy,
My heart goes out to you, although I know you posted your personal information to make a point. I hope that your example makes some see the light. I have to agree with you 100%. No matter how slight the under bite it doesn't matter it is a under bite no matter how you look at it. Showing or not showing it does not matter, you shouldn't breed a genetic problem Under any circumstances I have to take my losses as females mature and not become what I had hoped. My advice to you Wolftrap is that their are plenty of yorkie breeders out there, that are breeding pet quality, rise above that and breed the best you can, for the perfect little yorkie possible, cut your losses with this female and start again, I know it is a set back, but your reputation is on the line. I don't think there was much support for you with the idea to breed her, and there was a reason for that. There are a lot of members that are trying to lead you in the right direction if you do want to start breeding.

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Not everyone agrees with the same "standard". The AKC or YTCA "standard" is not the pet yorkie or companion yorkie fancier's "standard". We care more about temperament and personality than outward appearance. We sometimes like floppy ears and short snouts and smaller than the YTCA standard, etc.

There is nothing wrong with a companion dog "standard" being different from a "show dog" standard.

The yorkie is not going anywhere so the argument that hobbyists will "hurt" the breed is really not a valid one unless the show breeders stop breeding.

Here's another one that's been sticking in my craw. "We care more about temperament..."????????????????

We used to breed/train/show Rotts. We got their hips x-rayed and OFA'd, elbows certified, eyes certified by a board-certified specialist, etc. 25 years later, health experts in the field were saying - to hell with the eyes, hips, etc. TEMPERAMENT IS MOST IMPORTANT.

And they were right. I hope it's obvious to all readers why.

What is it about the Yorkie temperament that concerns you and that you think could be improved by pet breeders? If you look at the breed in its entirety, wouldn't you think that health issues such as liver shunt, Legg-Perthes, luxating patella, etc would be at the top of the list and not temperament? The Yorkie gene pool is ENORMOUS and there is no need/excuse to breed any individual with an obvious genetic disqualifying fault.

I know you pride yourself on your logical argument, but your derive your logic from flawed premises and assumptions.

Again, I hope you will cease encouraging unethical breeding practices whether the goal is the show ring or pet home.

CJ