I Am Thinking Of Breeding

[Olivier]

Without offending no one . When someone have his or her mind set on breeding , there is no much that another one can do .

As my mentor told me once " There are several Yorkies in this world but it is rare to find real quality ones " .

[Yorkieville200]

I have to say that I agree with Kathy, a bad bite causes problems. One of my Yorkies has an overbite. She requires a dental every year. It's terrifying to me, to have her put under every year. Still, at age 6, she lost two teeth, due to this overbite. That is a pretty young age to lose teeth, when I've been religious about taking care of her teeth.
Just some food for thought.

Sheila

[YorkieRose]

I do not keep breeding stock with bad bites, that is my preference..but having said that..IMO breeding a dog with a bad bite is no different then breeding one with a soft coat or oversized. It is a fault..pick the fault you can live with, since our Yorkies all have faults in the bloodlines.

There are degrees of a bad bit..slight to severe...I would breed a good quality bitch, of good temperment and a good pedigree with a slightly off bite...as opposed to breeding an oversized bitch or one who was shy/bashful. Jaws are a different fault..if it is badly undershot..No, I would not breed her.

[sylvan]

Originally Posted by Olivier

Without offending no one . When someone have his or her mind set on breeding , there is no much that another one can do .

As my mentor told me once " There are several Yorkies in this world but it is rare to find real quality ones " .

This is true. When I ask a question I am seeking truth, not just an answer I want to hear. If someone only wants approval then why do they ask at all?
I apparently offend people all the time. I should be more tactful, but I am not.

[alpayton]

The thing I don't understand is when people decide they're going to breed, why do they think that they should just breed whatever they have at hand? Just because it has a uterus, does not mean it was intended to be bred. Plain and simple. The ONLY reason to breed is to help better the breed. If you can't do that with the pairing you have, then you shouldn't breed them. To better the breed, you must take in consideration what faults your animal has and if those faults are not able to be fixed with a breeding, then either get another animal that can be bred without messing up the genes, or decide not to breed at all. You have to look at your animal as a breeding tool...not as a pet, in order to assess it correctly with an unbiased eye. It's hard to do this, but it's necessary. Cottony coats, ear set, conformation, etc can be corrected for the most part thru selective breeding, however I for one, do not believe that an overbite/underbite is something I want to be messing with when it comes to breeding. Cottony coats, ear set and conformation are not things that will affect the animals ability to survive...the bite is. JMHO!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by PinkMartini

I guess I can agree that there are a lot of people out there that want pet quality dogs (which I don't exactly understand myself, but that's a whole 'nother topic). What I can't agree to is breeding pet quality dogs. Why would you want to breed if not to improve the breed? Just to make money? Why breed dogs that have obvious faults (like an underbite/overbite/ect)? Like the above poster posted, bite's obviously do affect the pups, and can get to the extreme's to where the dog has trouble eating Why would you want to contribute to that?

I understand that not everyone has the same ideas about breeding, ect but I can't for the life of me understand why people would breed a breed of dog that they say they love to mediocre standards? If you love a breed, why not try to improve it by breeding out these faults?

Not everyone agrees with the same "standard". The AKC or YTCA "standard" is not the pet yorkie or companion yorkie fancier's "standard". We care more about temperament and personality than outward appearance. We sometimes like floppy ears and short snouts and smaller than the YTCA standard, etc.

There is nothing wrong with a companion dog "standard" being different from a "show dog" standard.

The yorkie is not going anywhere so the argument that hobbyists will "hurt" the breed is really not a valid one unless the show breeders stop breeding.

[PinkMartini]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Not everyone agrees with the same "standard". The AKC or YTCA "standard" is not the pet yorkie or companion yorkie fancier's "standard". We care more about temperament and personality than outward appearance. We sometimes like floppy ears and short snouts and smaller than the YTCA standard, etc.

There is nothing wrong with a companion dog "standard" being different from a "show dog" standard.

Huh? Where is this so called pet quality standard? I'd love to read it if you'd point me in the right direction. Something I've never heard of and had no idea was out there...

Show breeder's don't care about temperment or personality? Since when? What show breeders have you talked to that haven't given a crap about temperment? EVERY breeder I've talked to has preferred temperment over certain faults. Even Pat mentioned temperment in her post.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by PinkMartini

Huh? Where is this so called pet quality standard? I'd love to read it if you'd point me in the right direction. Something I've never heard of and had no idea was out there...

Show breeder's don't care about temperment or personality? Since when? What show breeders have you talked to that haven't given a crap about temperment? EVERY breeder I've talked to has preferred temperment over certain faults. Even Pat mentioned temperment in her post.

I never said that show breeders "don't care about temperament or personality" (please do not put words in my mouth) and I haven't talked to any show breeders that "haven't given a crap about temperament" as you put it, but the YTCA "standard" focuses mostly on outward appearance as do the judges in the ring. This is a well known fact.

There is no written "companion dog standard" that I am aware of. My point is merely that a pet fancier's idea of a breed standard is different from person to person. I like baby doll faces big eyed small eared tiny yorkies for instance. I also like unusually colored yorkies like my princess Chai and Julz' Mercedes and Maverick and none of them are show breed standard. We are all differnent and zi have never seen two yorkies that looked exactly alike.

[alpayton]

The standard goes right out the window when you're talking about a flaw that affects the animal's ability to carry on life 'normally'. I don't know of any "standard" that would accept a life altering fault as breeding worthy.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by alpayton

The standard goes right out the window when you're talking about a flaw that affects the animal's ability to carry on life 'normally'. I don't know of any "standard" that would accept a life altering fault as breeding worthy.

If a dog has a "life altering" (in a negative rather than positive way) fault then I would agree it shouldn't be bred, but who decides what is life altering?

[alpayton]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If a dog has a "life altering" (in a negative rather than positive way) fault then I would agree it shouldn't be bred, but who decides what is life altering?

Oh come on. Ear set is NOT a life altering trait, it's not going to affect how the dog hears. Coat texture is NOT a life altering trait, it's not going to affect anything but how the dog looks. An overbite or an underbite IS a life altering trait, it's possibly going to affect the way the dog eats and drinks for its entire life. I'm not making up any kind of definition of life-altering here...it's common sense. It doesn't have to be written or agreed to. Life altering is something that alters life, be it quality or quantity.

[YorkieRose]

I would like to see a photo of the bitches bite if possible. How old is she? I have talked to novices who think a scissor bite is an overbite. I realize there is no mistaking an underbite.
Charlotte had an underbite until 5 months..I had her puppy teeth pulled and her adult bite is correct..she has not passed it on to her 8 puppies.

So many people want to breed their pet female...99% do it once and never again..and like Oliver said, most can not be talked out of it, so I save my breath.

[Wolftrap]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I would like to see a photo of the bitches bite if possible. How old is she? I have talked to novices who think a scissor bite is an overbite. I realize there is no mistaking an underbite.
Charlotte had an underbite until 5 months..I had her puppy teeth pulled and her adult bite is correct..she has not passed it on to her 8 puppies.

So many people want to breed their pet female...99% do it once and never again..and like Oliver said, most can not be talked out of it, so I save my breath.

Are you asking for a picture of MY dog? In a picture you are not able to see it. Hers is very slight. I have to open her mouth for it to be seen. I also didn't mean to turn this into a huge debate. I see some are passionate abou this. Most people that buy dogs IMO buy to have for a pet not as a show dog. I am still undecided as to whether I will breed her or not. This thread has given me some more insight as to the pros and cons. The fact that neither of cocos parents have an underbite and she was the only one in the litter that had one leads me to believe it was just a "freak accident". She has no problems eating or chewing and her vet has even told me its not serious. So I believe the chances of her passing this on to her pups are slim but I am aware it can happen and I doubt if it does it will be worse than hers. I am happy to know that there is someone out there that has bred a Yorkie with an underbite and has had successful litters without it.

[Diego]

Just my opinion with no offenses of any kind :

When a person buys a Yorkie , it should stay that way . If a breeder placed puppies as companions only , the buyers should respect this fact . I admit there are cute Yorkies in this world but cute is not enough to have a female bred or have a male at stud . I know a few breeders around here that don't write neutering or spaying contracts anymore but they choose to have their pups spayed and neutered before selling them and I truly think that it is a very good choice .

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by shecass

I'm not posting this with the intention of making anyone mad. Most people out there want pet quality dogs not show quality at least people that I have talked too. My yorkie that just had 3 gorgeous pups has an underbite and no one seems to care. I've not had a problem selling her pups. They have all been told of her underbite and no one yet has cared. I would say that it is personal preference. That there are also good arguments for both sides of this. I personally would breed her if you really wanted to and there was nothing else medicall wrong with her. My vet told me of Mollie's underbite the first time I took her to the vet. I get comments on her all the time she looks like she is smiling.

The lady's dog I used for the stud has the pick of the litter and she hopes that she gets Mollies underbite. Like I said I think it's just a preference thing.

Good Luck.

Sheila

I have so many things to say in response to your statements I don't know where to begin. Personal preference can be applied to any trait a dog may have, but please not with what makes a dog a dog. Please don't mess with the basics. Bites, number of teeth, etc. relate to the survival and health of the animal. Bad bites come from breeders who don't think it's that important. Being careless with such things is inexcusable. Ignorance may be an excuse, but blatant disregard for a disqualifying fault is negligent.

Please keep your personal preference to things like color, hair texture and quality, head type, etc. I'd rather die than breed a dog with a bad topline, but I'd do that long before I'd breed a dog with a bad bite.

Breeders breed to a standard to preserve breed type. To keep a Yorkie looking and acting like a Yorkie. Disqualifying faults are those faults that are so bad they should never be bred. Bad bites are disqualifying faults.

Just because you have no problem selling pups doesn't mean you're doing it right. Every puppy born deserves a loving home whether their bite is perfect or not.

I don't want to make you mad, either, but I hope I can make you think about what you're doing. The only things that should distinguish a show dog from a pet are things like size, coat, etc. We should all be striving to breed perfect bites whether we're breeding for the show ring or family pets.

CJ