I Am Thinking Of Breeding

[shecass]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

Here's another one that's been sticking in my craw. "We care more about temperament..."????????????????

We used to breed/train/show Rotts. We got their hips x-rayed and OFA'd, elbows certified, eyes certified by a board-certified specialist, etc. 25 years later, health experts in the field were saying - to hell with the eyes, hips, etc. TEMPERAMENT IS MOST IMPORTANT.

And they were right. I hope it's obvious to all readers why.

What is it about the Yorkie temperament that concerns you and that you think could be improved by pet breeders? If you look at the breed in its entirety, wouldn't you think that health issues such as liver shunt, Legg-Perthes, luxating patella, etc would be at the top of the list and not temperament? The Yorkie gene pool is ENORMOUS and there is no need/excuse to breed any individual with an obvious genetic disqualifying fault.

I know you pride yourself on your logical argument, but your derive your logic from flawed premises and assumptions.

Again, I hope you will cease encouraging unethical breeding practices whether the goal is the show ring or pet home.

CJ

Well said.

Sheila

[iluvyorkies]

Hi,
Wanted you all to know that this morning I received an e-mail from the address yorkielover2002@aol.com. The zip attachment had a virus. The text said "my hero". Just wanted to warn you: if you get a similar e-mail, please delete it. And to the person who sent it: didn't harm me, my browser picked it up

[hockeymom]

Originally Posted by Snow Yorkies

Well, with this post I think we have found out who breeds for what reasons. I know if I am looking for a new yorkie to bring into my home who I will be contacting in the future, as well to whom I would ever consider giving breeding rights to and who I wouldn't, from any sales of my pups. Who says you can't learn something everyday. lol !!! You can all keep the debate going but I think the record has already been set....

I could not agree more!!!!!!! I have read through this entire thread, and it has been quite enlightning to say the least. I will take ethics and integrity every time.

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by iluvyorkies

Hi,
Wanted you all to know that this morning I received an e-mail from the address yorkielover2002@aol.com. The zip attachment had a virus. The text said "my hero". Just wanted to warn you: if you get a similar e-mail, please delete it. And to the person who sent it: didn't harm me, my browser picked it up

Thank you for the information .

[YorkieRose]

We had a recent breeder tells us the Yorkie needed to be improved..and the way to do this was by mixing the breed with Maltese. The only way to improve on what the old English breeders founded, is to continue to breed to the standard they set.
I can not find anything in the standard that could be changed to make a better Yorkie. Leaving the tail, changing the color will not make a better dog, it will make a different dog. If you want to produce different, then throw out the standard, if not stick to it.

I have openned the mouths of alot of show dogs...you would be surprised how many have "iffy" bites..I made mental notes and never wasted my stud dollars or puppy buying money with these breeders.
I used to groom a Maltese champion with an underbite..the breeder was well known and told me it is hard to get a good bite in a Malt..I have no clue???

I do know you can push the jaw back or forward when you show the judge the dogs bite and it will be 100% better...that is why a savvy judge will open the mouth for themselves.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

Why bother to post that you want help or information. You have made up your mind what of what you are going to do. You don't care about the breed, your dog, the puppies that you will produce and the folks who will buy the problems that you are so proudly creating.

Kathy~

My heart goes out to you and your family. Those health issues are truly "life altering" and I am so sorry that your children have had to suffer so. That is horrible.

Your last paragraph, is totally unfair, however.....Why bother to post that you want help or information? That is what we are here for and she continues to state that she hasn't made up her mind nd she cares what the people on here advise. I just think that is unkind. Of course she CARES about the breed, her dog and the puppies she produces....it is cruel to insinuate that she does not and it is not like you to say things like this!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

The only way to improve on what the old English breeders founded, is to continue to breed to the standard they set.
I can not find anything in the standard that could be changed to make a better Yorkie. Leaving the tail, changing the color will not make a better dog, it will make a different dog. If you want to produce different, then throw out the standard, if not stick to it.

I have openned the mouths of alot of show dogs...you would be surprised how many have "iffy" bites..
I used to groom a Maltese champion with an underbite..the breeder was well known and told me it is hard to get a good bite in a Malt..I have no clue???
.

If you compare the "Old English" standard adopted by the Kennel Club of Great Britain in 1887 and the one adopted by the YTCA here you will notice that the one sentence on temperament that was in the British Standard as written was omitted from the one adopted here.

Now, I know that many show breeders look at temperament but they will breed a Conformation perfect bitch they are not going to show who has a poor temperament to a male with a good temperament to hopefully get a show quality puppy with a good temperament.

The "standard" also says nothing about breeding out life altering genetic health defects, but all good breeders do this automatically because they do care!

The fact that you find slight underbites in the show ring all the time is evidence that the "perfect bite" is difficult to get and is not life altering in many instances. It is these situations that make it impossible for anyone to argue to that this member is irresponsible if she breeds her female to produce pets. There are probably some breeds who have underbites genetically and they are not considered faults at all.

She is not trying to hurt or destroy the breed....and she came here for advice...not to be accused of not caring about her dog or the breed!

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

If you compare the "Old English" standard adopted by the Kennel Club of Great Britain in 1887 and the one adopted by the YTCA here you will notice that the one sentence on temperament that was in the British Standard as written was omitted from the one adopted here.

Now, I know that many show breeders look at temperament but they will breed a Conformation perfect bitch they are not going to show who has a poor temperament to a male with a good temperament to hopefully get a show quality puppy with a good temperament.

The "standard" also says nothing about breeding out life altering genetic health defects, but all good breeders do this automatically because they do care!

The fact that you find slight underbites in the show ring all the time is evidence that the "perfect bite" is difficult to get and is not life altering in many instances. It is these situations that make it impossible for anyone to argue to that this member is irresponsible if she breeds her female to produce pets. There are probably some breeds who have underbites genetically and they are not considered faults at all.

She is not trying to hurt or destroy the breed....and she came here for advice...not to be accused of not caring about her dog or the breed!

I wish I knew where you come up with this stuff.

Check your facts.

"slight underbites in the show ring all the time is evidence that the "perfect bite" is difficult to get..." This is an inaccurate statement. It has been observed, not seen all the time. This is simply evidence that there are unethical show breeders.

I think the only one who has been accused of a breech of ethics is you. You continue to defend breeding dogs with serious faults.

AND, lastly - exactly what do you consider "bad" temperament in a Yorkie?

CJ

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by diva pup

Really Kim? Then enlighten me, what exactly are you looking for in YOUR ideal of the perfect yorkie? Temperment? You bought one of your dogs over the internet, so that wasn't it. Color? Size? Service dog potential? I am really unclear as to what about the yorkie breed attracted you.
And I did read the whole thread, but you muddied up the original question to make it be about the YTCA, again.

The dog I bought over the internet was temperament tested by two independent trainers before I had her shipped and both parents were tested as well.

I love what everyone else loves about the yorkshire terrier...the overall cuteness and smallness, the feisty nature, ....and there are obviously some things that I like about the "standard" but I guess I just have a hard time having a "club" tell me one dog is "better" than another for some arbitrary thing like "color" of coat, or whether it is silky or cottony or whether it has a docked tail or an undocked tail or whether it's ears stand up or not!!! That is what I rebel against. It seems very pretentious and snobbish to me to say that those are dogs are better QUALITY for some reason when the QUALITY I look for is personality, temperament and cuteness with health being a given at the start.

I think a floppy eared, long legged, long snouted yorkie is just as much a "quality" yorkie as a champion in the show ring! Neither of those is my "dream puppy" however, and we all have different characterisitics we like. I like small, full coated, dogs with big eyes and small ears and a short baby doll snout. To me this is cute and I just like that "look". Not everyone does, but please do not tell me my dogs are not QUALITY yorkies because they do not fit the "standard" set by the YTCA. That is all I am saying.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

I wish I knew where you come up with this stuff.

Check your facts.

"slight underbites in the show ring all the time is evidence that the "perfect bite" is difficult to get..." This is an inaccurate statement. It has been observed, not seen all the time. This is simply evidence that there are unethical show breeders.

I think the only one who has been accused of a breech of ethics is you. You continue to defend breeding dogs with serious faults.

AND, lastly - exactly what do you consider "bad" temperament in a Yorkie?

CJ

Who accused me of a breech of ethics?

I HAVE NOT DEFENDED BREEDING DOGS WITH SERIOUS FAULTS!!!!

I would consider an extremely shy "fear biter" to be poor temperament as well as an overly aggressive dog that growls and snaps at anything. There are many tests that are conducted on puppies and I have had all of mine temperament tested prior to purchasing.

[Ponyup]

One thing I think the person considering breeding needs to know is that not taking into account the underbite there is always a risk when breeding. Since this dog is your pet you should know that there is always a chance the bitch or the pups might not make it. This is very hard to deal with. We have never bred dogs, but we breed quarter horses and it is very difficult for my mom. My mom had a colt die a few years back of west nile and she cried for days she was so sad. and this was a horse she planned to sell once it got to year old. there is a lot of emotional stake in breeding animals and you need to be sure you're ready for that too.
My mom loves her dog (a weimeriener) and so does anyone that comes in contact with her she a wonderful pet and has amazing conformaty. Expect that she was the runt and his a tiny compared to the breed standard (she weighs about 30lbs which is about 20 lbs under the standard), my mom loves her size, but realized that even if she found a small male she could run the risk of the pups getting too big to whelp and the dog might die. My mom wasn't willing to risk losing her pet and friend. So make sure you take into consideration that risk before making your finally decision.

[sylvan]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

That is all I am saying.

and saying and saying and saying. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone, but for goodness sake I think we've heard it now.
Must you counter everyone who has a different view with your opinion?

[PinkMartini]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Summer~ I thought you might start understanding after the trouble you have had recently even getting a YTCA member to talk to you because you are a newbie. They do not like new people and don't let them into the "club" very often. Why associate with people like that?

I've NEVER had trouble with anyone in the YTCA. Where in the hell do you get that from? I've never even SPOKEN with anyone in the YTCA.

[PinkMartini]

Originally Posted by sylvan

and saying and saying and saying. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone, but for goodness sake I think we've heard it now.
Must you counter everyone who has a different view with your opinion?

Lmao... Isn't that the truth?

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by sylvan

and saying and saying and saying. You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone, but for goodness sake I think we've heard it now.
Must you counter everyone who has a different view with your opinion?

I have done nothing but answered questions and continued to reply when I was misunderstood or misquoted. It would be wrong to remain silent when I am asked a question, misquoted or misunderstood and it is unfair of you to criticize me for it.

This is a public forum for the free exchange of ideas and views to help us learn more about this wonderful breed we all love.

I appreciate and respect all view points. I may have responses but I never try to shove my views upon anyone and I "counter" because I have thoughts and opinions that have merit and may make someone think differently about a particular issue.

I do not understand animosity and criticim that crops up so often.